I dont like Turbochargers

caz12 said:
someone explain what turbocharger is and stufer
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this is a pretty good wiki: Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Both force air into the engine. For turbo, the turbine is powered by the exhaust flow. As a result, you don't get as much of a power boost for it, you don't get gain at low RPM. I'm getting 30mpg out of my 2000 Jetta 1.8T for work, 38 on last Interstate trip.

Supercharger/Stufffer is powered by the engine, it puts out a lot of power, but takes a good chunk of it to run, so your engine size will be larger. You get the power benefit in the low RPM. With the larger engine, they aren't as good on mileage.
 
In layman term.

This number is close to what I think is accurate.

In order for gasoline vapor to explode inside the chamber, they need about 15% of gasoline vapor mixed with 85% of oxygen(Air). That ratio needs to constantly maintain close enough otherwise gas vapor won't kaboom or backfires. anyway When the piston goes down, it will suck the mixed gas vapor and oxygen, then valve closes, piston goes upward to create the pressure to the point where it is time to "Fire" the mixture it will explode and push down the piston with X amount of energy.
To increase the X amount of energy, turbo can be add and what turbo does is gathering more air and stuffed though modified carb to get the right mixture ratio, its like add more air and little more gas which will eventually increase the power to push the piston down. So, the more air and gasoline vapor gets more packed when compressed means more power.

Turbo acts almost like a blower only difference is design and turbo uses vanes while blower use squirrel cage style.

Addition: I am not sure if every turbo takes the exhaust air out of combustion chamber, I know many Turbos does the both push air in, and pull exhaust air out of other cylinder, taking out more exhaust helps clear out for more compressed air/gas to draw in; resulting higher power from engine.

caz12 said:
someone explain what turbocharger is and stufer
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so, is this how come we dont see supercharger motorcycles (except dragsters)
 
soulchill said:
Both force air into the engine. For turbo, the turbine is powered by the exhaust flow. As a result, you don't get as much of a power boost for it, you don't get gain at low RPM. I'm getting 30mpg out of my 2000 Jetta 1.8T for work, 38 on last Interstate trip.
Click to expand...

Last time I was in one of those, they made a lot of noise. You could hear it when it activated, all of a sudden there would be this loud roaring noise... :P
 
soulchill said:
this is a pretty good wiki:
Both force air into the engine. For turbo, the turbine is powered by the exhaust flow. As a result, you don't get as much of a power boost for it, you don't get gain at low RPM.
Click to expand...

Actually it all depends on the size of the turbo and the engine, my new car is a 4lt turbo and because of the size of the engine the power is instant with zero lag and peak turque at 2000rpm. But if you were to strap the same turbo on a EVO there would be quite noticable lag.
 
Oc318 said:
Last time I was in one of those, they made a lot of noise. You could hear it when it activated, all of a sudden there would be this loud roaring noise... :P
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Some turbo's are quite noisy, On a previous car i had a turbo that friends said they could hear the blades spinning for about 30 sec after the car was turned off. Under boost was just a magical loud sucking sound.
 
soulchill said:
this is a pretty good wiki: Turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For turbo, the turbine is powered by the exhaust flow. As a result, you don't get as much of a power boost for it, you don't get gain at low RPM. I'm getting 30mpg out of my 2000 Jetta 1.8T for work, 38 on last Interstate trip.

Supercharger/Stufffer is powered by the engine, it puts out a lot of power, but takes a good chunk of it to run, so your engine size will be larger. You get the power benefit in the low RPM. With the larger engine, they aren't as good on mileage.
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My TurboDiesel uses motor oil to spin the turbo, it has separate oil pump that's designed for turbo. I got 15 quarts of oil in my engine. Most engines has 3 to 5 quarts of engine oil. That is one of reason why I had to change oil strictly followed by mfg specs.

Even though Turbo on diesel DOES decrease the mileage on Diesel, but STILL better mileage than gasoline version anyway. NO other gasoline version of 2006 F-250 gets better mileage than my 2006 F-250 Diesel. I can get 23 MPG on highway and I can't find gasoline version that gets better than 16MPG on highway. V-10 gasoline version is much worse.... 12MPG on highway which is almost half as mine yet I have more power than V-10.

Im not saying your wrong, just that there are several kinds of turbos available today. I STILL want no turbo and I can not take my turbo out of my engine why? It is so integrated part of the engine, no way to take out the turbo... grrr. Some cars can have their turbo removed. Yes, I don't mind floor the gas pedal and see my vehicle crawling to start and seeing others passing me. LOL (It will give me better mileage that way)
 
diehardbiker said:
In layman term.

This number is close to what I think is accurate.

In order for gasoline vapor to explode inside the chamber, they need about 15% of gasoline vapor mixed with 85% of oxygen(Air). That ratio needs to constantly maintain close enough otherwise gas vapor won't kaboom or backfires. anyway When the piston goes down, it will suck the mixed gas vapor and oxygen, then valve closes, piston goes upward to create the pressure to the point where it is time to "Fire" the mixture it will explode and push down the piston with X amount of energy.
To increase the X amount of energy, turbo can be add and what turbo does is gathering more air and stuffed though modified carb to get the right mixture ratio, its like add more air and little more gas which will eventually increase the power to push the piston down. So, the more air and gasoline vapor gets more packed when compressed means more power.

Turbo acts almost like a blower only difference is design and turbo uses vanes while blower use squirrel cage style.

Addition: I am not sure if every turbo takes the exhaust air out of combustion chamber, I know many Turbos does the both push air in, and pull exhaust air out of other cylinder, taking out more exhaust helps clear out for more compressed air/gas to draw in; resulting higher power from engine.
Click to expand...

Correct.

In layman's terms:

Superchargers require a belt/chain/shaft to spin the internal parts.

Turbochargers require pressurized exhaust gases to spin the internal parts.

Superchargers cost quite a bit more than turbochargers.
 
Mine spins using engine's own oil not exhaust or whatever. Mine is VGC Turbo meaning the speed of either sides are not the same but spins opposite from each other.

green427 said:
Correct.

In layman's terms:

Superchargers require a belt/chain/shaft to spin the internal parts.

Turbochargers require pressurized exhaust gases to spin the internal parts.

Superchargers cost quite a bit more than turbochargers.
Click to expand...
 
Grummer said:
over here, we call it blowers, a blown 454 is a supercharged 454...

interesting, never seen it called 'stuffers' before...
its a direct mechanical means of forced induction to the intake...
turbos rely on spent hot gases from exhaust pipes routing into the turbine which drives another set of turbine on other side, with a different sets of blades which 'stuffs' cold air, into the intake. Turbos dont come on from 0 revs to redline, as blowers/stuffers do, they can come in as a bang or as a swoosh from low revs, which is way there's 2 turbos, twin turbos are different..., the idea of 2 turbos was to fight lags, have 1 kick in early , and second to take more as revs highers so even more blowing...

Porsche 930 kicks hard but on higher revs, and that scares some people :giggle:
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Turbos are in action as soon as the motor starts the exhaust gasses turn the turbines. Blowers have an electro magnetic clutch like an AC compressor,and only engage when switched on (manually and around 60MPH) so you either got something backwards in your post or you don't know about them....
 
Blowers use a screw type setup, not a squirrel cage...lol
Turbos are more like squirrel cage set back to back, one side hot exhaust gasses the other force cold air.
 
I rest my case
Turbo
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImvM5N-H-10]Forced Induction: 3D Supercharger Animation - YouTube[/ame]
Blower
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjTDmxcrfIY]Eaton Internal Supercharger Animation - YouTube[/ame]
 
yep as clear as mud now,but thanks for trying to explain..so no turbo charge peda bike then derek
 
and think about it, never seen a squirrel cage (trap maybe) turbos should be called Hamster Wheels.
 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm6vWMq61lA]Superchargers vs Turbo Kits: Which to Choose? - Presented by Andy's Auto Sport - YouTube[/ame]
 
Makes ya twitch a little
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-gP1XWBAHo]509 Blown Big Block Chevrolet By Scared Shiftless Dyno Test - YouTube[/ame]
 
But I sure do like this and like to see the rig when done
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m48vyc5beNg]24V71 Detroit - YouTube[/ame]
 
How would you like to be the guy in front of this dyno
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozQ-WOkLYsA]Dyno killer - YouTube[/ame]
 
diehardbiker said:
Mine spins using engine's own oil not exhaust or whatever. Mine is VGC Turbo meaning the speed of either sides are not the same but spins opposite from each other.
Click to expand...

Ok, I stand corrected. Just looked up VGT, but cannot find any reference to oil pressure being used to spin them...all they say is that the vanes are variable and use several means to actuate them, but exhaust pressure still spins the shaft.

Variable-geometry turbocharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you know where to look, let me know, as I am curious to learn more about it.
 
Turbos never use oil to power them, to lubricate them yes but oil no... there is no way for oil to build that kind of pressure to spin them at different speeds in any sense???? The turbos operate on the gasses being expelled, the higher the engine revs the faster the turbo spins and the more pressure pumped to the intake. Oil is not hydraulic fluid and turbos would never be operated by hydraulics since its flammable and under any pressure, you are looking for disaster to happen.
Turbos generate a lot of heat under the hood, that's one reason they are not highly used in racing, but the newer tuner guys are all for that stuff, you take a seasoned old school guy he will pick a blower any day.
Everyone I know including my older cousins ( professional mechanics/Rodders ) to this day wont touch a turbo, they say its just a kids toy.
 
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