I dont like Turbochargers

diehardbiker said:
If you do mathematics right, Diesel fuel STILL cheaper than gasoline. Just think, with Diesel gets at least 50% more MPG than gasoline and Diesel cost only 15% more than gasoline.
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If you mean long-term costs, diesel fuel can be less expensive....depending on many factors. Big-ass trucks use diesel more efficiently than gasoline, but look at the overall extra cost of the diesel engine.

I have been looking at the Jetta Sportwagen TDI, which gets about 40MPG.

There are many other gasoline powered vehicles that get close to 40. I would need to drive at least 40K miles per year to make the cost savings worth it. The least expensive TDI sportwagen is $30K. I believe the diesel option alone is $4K. The other Americanized Jetta, the new one, is not as good as the Sportwagen, and still costs $22K.

p.s. Are you aware that Diesel mechanics, the really experienced ones, are scarce in the US? Friend of mine's father is past retirement age, and still travels around to fix complex problems. He works maybe once or twice a week, all expenses paid, and brings home $60K per year doing that.

Time for me to go back to school....
 
Yes, you are correct on this one. I had 85 VW Jetta Diesel (without turbo) and I have regularly hit 60MPG on that one. It is not hard to hit 60 MPG, but with add turbo, about 22MPG is lost. Turbo really kills and the advantage of add turbo is just added power to start or boost the drive that is all. You don't need turbo when at the speed of constant driving.

I have turbo gauge, that is how I know, every time Im on highway going 55MPH... Yes I can drive 55! and I see turbo gauge almost always near zero.

Yes, your right about certified Diesel mechanics, sad but true. Not just that, but other positions too.

green427 said:
If you mean long-term costs, diesel fuel can be less expensive....depending on many factors. Big-ass trucks use diesel more efficiently than gasoline, but look at the overall extra cost of the diesel engine.

I have been looking at the Jetta Sportwagen TDI, which gets about 40MPG.

There are many other gasoline powered vehicles that get close to 40. I would need to drive at least 40K miles per year to make the cost savings worth it. The least expensive TDI sportwagen is $30K. I believe the diesel option alone is $4K. The other Americanized Jetta, the new one, is not as good as the Sportwagen, and still costs $22K.

p.s. Are you aware that Diesel mechanics, the really experienced ones, are scarce in the US? Friend of mine's father is past retirement age, and still travels around to fix complex problems. He works maybe once or twice a week, all expenses paid, and brings home $60K per year doing that.

Time for me to go back to school....
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green427 said:
Correct.

In layman's terms:

Superchargers require a belt/chain/shaft to spin the internal parts.

Turbochargers require pressurized exhaust gases to spin the internal parts.

Superchargers cost quite a bit more than turbochargers.
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There is two "turbocharger" type.

turbo_vs_supercharger_2_0.jpg



Procharger power by belt, blower power by belt , and turbocharger power by exhaust.
 
The turbocharger and procharger can fit almost any motorcycles, atv, tractor, airplane, boat, etc that MOST superchargers can't.


Nissan-Supercharger-6001.jpg


This is looks badass but AWFUL short life like sand, dust, bugs,probably bird can kill supercharger due no air filter.
 
sonocativo said:
Page 5
During engine operation at low engine
speeds and load, little energy is
available from the exhaust to generate
boost. In order to maximize the use of
the energy that is available, the vanes
are closed. In doing so, the exhaust
gas is accelerated between the vanes
and across the turbine wheel
increasing turbocharger wheel speed
and “boost”. In general, this allows the
turbocharger to behave as a smaller​

turbocharger.
Oil does nothing but lubricate the moving parts, the exhaust is what powers the turbo. Vanes open and close to increase speeds, but the oil doesn't actually power the turbo. Never has and never will.
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I am 100% agreed with you. Oil never power the turbo. Even turbocharger can running without oil and burn bearing quick.

I am diesel mechanic for semi-truck for a year.
 
diehardbiker said:
Mine spins using engine's own oil not exhaust or whatever. Mine is VGC Turbo meaning the speed of either sides are not the same but spins opposite from each other.
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It's VGT turbocharger, not VGC, VGT designed for anti-lag and control by servo. It's popular for volvo semi truck. If you don't see any servo on the turbocharger then it's just turbocharger.

Yes, VGT turbocharger still power by exhaust.
 
The Highlander said:
There is two "turbocharger" type.

Procharger power by belt, blower power by belt , and turbocharger power by exhaust.
Click to expand...

The word "turbo" is derived from "turbine"....from what I understand, anything that compresses air by mechanical means should not really use the word "turbo", but we can debate this all day....in the end, we still have compressed air.
 
Soon Gasoline version will follow what EPA had done with Diesel fuel.

EPA plans rules on clean gas - Mar. 29, 2013

As it looks like cost of gasoline will catch up with Diesel due to new EPA regulations. The same regulation started with Diesel was 2007, 7 years later gas join.

green427 said:
If you mean long-term costs, diesel fuel can be less expensive....depending on many factors. Big-ass trucks use diesel more efficiently than gasoline, but look at the overall extra cost of the diesel engine.

I have been looking at the Jetta Sportwagen TDI, which gets about 40MPG.

There are many other gasoline powered vehicles that get close to 40. I would need to drive at least 40K miles per year to make the cost savings worth it. The least expensive TDI sportwagen is $30K. I believe the diesel option alone is $4K. The other Americanized Jetta, the new one, is not as good as the Sportwagen, and still costs $22K.

p.s. Are you aware that Diesel mechanics, the really experienced ones, are scarce in the US? Friend of mine's father is past retirement age, and still travels around to fix complex problems. He works maybe once or twice a week, all expenses paid, and brings home $60K per year doing that.

Time for me to go back to school....
Click to expand...
 
green427 said:
The word "turbo" is derived from "turbine"....from what I understand, anything that compresses air by mechanical means should not really use the word "turbo", but we can debate this all day....in the end, we still have compressed air.
Click to expand...

At least I don't said "turbo" just "turbocharger"

:wave:
 
sonocativo said:
I did notice the procharger didn't have an electromagnetic clutch???
Watch the original Mad Max movie where he flips the switch and the charger kicks in.

Watch at first driving its not rotating, at about 5:50+ he kicks it on in the chase and it engages
MAD MAX RENEGADE - YouTube
Click to expand...

MBZ cars have electromagnetic clutches bolted on SCs that I've been seen them before. I think the MBZ cars like C230 Kompressor, SLK 230 Kompressor and other model. I can't remembers. Hey Grummer, I second that.... I'm not sure if the electro-mag clutches are engaging all the time.... Maybe I will catch up the MBZ come in for smog inspection or oil services, take a look at the electoral-mag clutch if it engages all time. If not then let u know...
 
OK, that's be good...also the Mad Max gadget is just a 'future feature' dont need to remind but the film was made 1979/1981 (1983? for the 3rd one with Tina Turner)..
and the Prochargers arent really turbo chargers, I don't think it would behave like one (correct me if I'm wrong), its simply a 'turbo-broken off the exhaust and made into straight bolt on like the screw/vane type blowers, to make it simple, but how it will kick in? TBH, i havent read the whole thread, just i have to say i must wonder if the Pro-chargers belt-driven 'turbo house/compressor turbines' have any advantages in reducing the 'lag'?? can any one say , I HTH, but when i get back home I will do a google too, but im sure there's will be debates, and my guess is 'the debates' are from those just got lucky or unlucky with mismatched engines to take advantages of the prochargers (hence reason why turbocharger proponents stand up for it, due its flexibility to tune with what ever exhaust pressure's profile an engine makes, but then a torque profile of another engine may make it a better match to use a Procharger without too much work??!

hmmm
 
green427 said:
The word "turbo" is derived from "turbine"....from what I understand, anything that compresses air by mechanical means should not really use the word "turbo", but we can debate this all day....in the end, we still have compressed air.
Click to expand...

Old habits die hard I guess... even in the age of fiber-optics end-user terminals are still called "modems" even though there's no modulation going on any more :)
 
no, a turbo is still a turbo because it has TWo sets of turbines, one to get the push from the exhaust to drive the compressor turbine on the other end of the spool.
a Procharger comes along because someone didnt like waste gates, intercoolers, and all the other complicated stuff just wanted the compressor turbine in the 1/2 half about decided that 1 half is enough and attached the spool to the bolt/belt pully unit. and to avoid patents and to use names to exploit a marketing niche, they called it Prochargers, (namely that in Professional Drag racers all uses belt driven blowers in traditional sense, and use a 'domestic turbine tech' as something 'everyone knows about' as a guranteee it will sell.
Nothing more nothing less.'
Its still a 'turbo' only its belt driven from simplicity, but the irony is, its more complicated to find an enigine that would be a perfect mate, whereas the more complex to fit-on-turbo-kit has more adjustability...so same old shit, buyer beware jsut do your home works first then choose. None is better, that another, just more of a case thats one is more suited than another.
 
im not in it!, but for the best captions for the pic, i'd say "Dont dive in the air ducts because you'd be sliced up before you're heated"
 
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