God Versus Satan

[Liebling:-)))]

Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden?

Reba, accord your post #426. It's same link, you provided in your previous post... It's still a confusing.

I googled right link... and found the same link, what I learn from JW, school and my Grandparents for a long time ago... That's reason I asked you question about this to compare what I learn from JW, school & my Roman Catholic Grandparents.

Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden?

Question: "Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden?"

Answer: God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice – to obey Him or disobey Him. Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’” If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be “free” – they had to have a choice.

There was nothing essentially evil about the tree or the fruit of the tree. It is unlikely that eating the fruit truly gave Adam and Eve any further knowledge. It was the act of disobedience that opened Adam and Eve’s eyes to evil. Their sin of disobeying God brought sin and evil into the world and into their lives. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of evil. Genesis 3:6-7, “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.”

God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world. Why, then, did God put the tree in the Garden of Eden and allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice. God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free wills, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The result – evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death have plagued the world ever since. Adam and Eve's decision results in each and every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin. Adam and Eve's decision is what ultimately required Jesus Christ to die on the cross and shed His blood on our behalf. Through faith in Christ, we can be free from sin's consequences, and ultimately free from sin itself. May we echo the words of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7:24-25, “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!”

Recommended Resource: Basic Theology by Charles Ryrie.

Why did God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Interesting link where the kind of religions beleive different what they think of those tree of knowledge.

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

Interpretations of the tree itself

In Judaism

According to the Jewish tradition, God's command not to eat from the Tree was to give Adam and Eve free choice and allow them to earn, as opposed to receive, absolute perfection and intimate communion with God, a higher level than the one on which they were created. According to this tradition, Adam and Eve would have attained absolute perfection and retained immortality had they succeeded in withstanding the temptation to eat from the Tree.

After failing at this task, they were condemned to a period of toil to rectify the fallen universe. Jewish tradition views the serpent, and sometimes the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil itself, as representatives of evil.

Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism see no "evil" other than the evil actions of human beings. Eve's only transgression was that she disobeyed God's order. Adam was with her the entire time and at no time stopped her. Therefore, it is incorrect to blame Eve alone. Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden and had to live ordinary, human lives. In other words, they had to "leave home" and grow up and live as responsible human beings. If they had never eaten from the forbidden tree, they would never have discovered their capacity to act with free will in the world. God does not want human beings who have no choice but to always do what is good and right.

Rabbi David Fohrman of Aish HaTorah, citing Maimonides' Guide for the Perplexed, states that "the tree did not give us moral awareness when we had none before. Rather, it transformed this awareness from one kind into another." After eating from the Tree, humanity's innate sense of moral awareness was transformed from concepts of true and false to concepts of good and evil. Genesis describes the tree as desirable (3:6), and our concepts of good and evil, unlike our concepts of true and false, also have an implicit measure of desire.

In Christianity

In Christian theology, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is connected to the doctrine of original sin. [[Augustine of Hippo}}believed that humanity inherited sin itself and the guilt for Adam and Eve's sin. By eating of the fruit of the Tree, Adam and Eve sought to be like God. For a debate about the Western doctrine of original sin and the Eastern doctrine of ancesteral sin, see Ancestral Versus Original Sin: An Overview with Implications for Psychotherapy. Accessed May 11, 2006.</ref> There is a minority of Christians that affirm the doctrine of Pelagius Pelagianism is a doctrine which believes every individual faces the same choice between sin and salvation that Adam and Eve faced.

Gordon Hugenberger notes that courts were often set up near trees in the ancient Near East.[citation needed] For capital offenses, the condemned was hung from a tree (Deuteronomy 21:22). Meredith G. Kline compares the Garden of Eden to a temple: The garden was a rectangle bounded by four rivers, and the temple was also a rectangle. God was present in the temple-garden, and Adam was the priest. The priest's duty was not only to obey God, but also to deal with offenders such as the serpent. Adam and Eve were thus meant to judge the serpent, but instead listened to the serpent and disobeyed God.[1]

Unification Church

The Unification Church regards the tree of knowledge as symbolizing Eve,[2] just as the tree of life symbolizes perfected Adam. The fruit of the tree of knowledge symbolizes Eve's love,[3] particularly conjugal love. The "fruit" could be good if principled and God-centered, or evil if unprincipled.

Eve had a sexual relationship with Lucifer. They "fell", and Eve became a "fallen woman". This was the spiritual fall. When Eve "offered the fruit to Adam", this means that he and she began a sexual relationship prematurely and without God's blessing;[4] this was the physical fall.

Trees in other religions

Similar trees appear in other religions. In the closest, most relevant comparison, the iconic image of the tree guarded by the Serpent appears on Sumerian seals; it is the central feature of the Garden of the Hesperides in Greek mythology, where the guardian serpent receives the name Ladon. In Buddhism, the Buddha became enlightened under the Bodhi tree. While the biblical tree is usually interpreted as representing sensual pleasure, the Bodhi tree gave pure transcendent knowledge.[citation needed] In Vedic Hinduism, the Tree of Jiva and Atman is usually interpreted as a metaphor concerning the soul, mind, and body. In the Norse sagas, the ash tree Yggdrasil draws from the magic springwater of knowledge. To many who believe the Bible is filled with parables, the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is actually a library or some other form of educational writings. The teachings that is to be planted in one's mind is the seed for which the fruit will bear. This evil seed is the "knowledge" God warned Eve about.

Freudian (psychological) interpretation

A rather Freudian interpretation is that knowledge of good and evil, or simply good and bad, refers to the recollection of a memory with an implied judgment. This is a natural process for neurological systems (humans and animals) to make to avoid pain or gain pleasure. However, human consciousness includes extensive recollection and teaching such as by the use of books, which could be called a fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. It is clearly distinguishable from the simple awareness of other animals. This allows human beings to make deliberate choices that they consider beneficial even if they include an element of pain.[citation needed]

The process of maturation occurring in the incidents around the tree describes, in an abstract way, the splitting of the human consciousness into the limited context of conscious thought and the underlying all-aware subconscious.

Symbolic interpretation

In mystical traditions of world religions (mysticism), sacred texts are read for metaphorical content referential to the relationship between state of mind and the external experience of reality. As such, the tree is a manifestating/causal symbol; the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is not independent from the reference to the Tree of Life in the same allegory in Genesis. With the Tree of Life representing the coveted state of eternal aliveness (fulfillment), once the ego experiences shame - having been tempted to absorb/believe in duality (eating of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil), we are protected from living eternally in that limiting ("fallen") experience by the cherubim guarding the gate of return to paradise (symbolic of the innocent self or true nature in control of purification of ego faith and return to being). Acculturation in this rulebound reality of good and bad is primarily familial, with not only the effect of confusion and misperception (illusion), but more critically the affect of displacement and psychological misery. The mystic attempts the return journey to Self and Unity with committed effort and practices that vary between individuals, religions and cultures.

Also, symbolically, the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil calls to mind the practice of dividing the acts of man into discrete categories (Right or Wrong, Good or Evil, Lawful or Unlawful) with dramatically distinct consequences for each case. The Genesis story contains a warning against that accepted cultural practice, predicting that it will lead to undesirable outcomes. In that regard, the story is remarkably prescient, as four millenia of history have confirmed that the Crime and Punishment Regulatory Model tends to produce dysfunctional outcomes. Modern technical and analytical research confirms that finding both theoretically and empirically.

Fruit of the tree

The Book of Enoch 31:4, purporting to be written by the antediluvian prophet Enoch, describes the Tree of Knowledge: "It was like a species of the Tamarind tree, bearing fruit which resembled grapes extremely fine; and its fragrance extended to a considerable distance. I exclaimed, How beautiful is this tree, and how delightful is its appearance!" In the Talmud, Rabbi Meir says that the fruit was a grape.[5] Another Talmudic tradition suggests that Eve actually made, and drank, wine.[6]

Also in the Talmud, Rabbi Nechemia says that the fruit was a fig.[5]Adam and Eve used fig leaves to cover themselves after eating the fruit (Genesis 3:7). Perhaps this was because the leaves were nearby, or perhaps it shows God creating the cure before the illness, i.e. the same tree that caused the problem was then used to remedy it. Another explanation lies within the "fruit" of the fig tree, the fig itself, which is not actually a fruit but rather a flower of sorts, serving as the tree's genitalia.

Another Talmudic interpretation, expressed by Rabbi Yehuda, is that the fruit was wheat.[5]

In Western Christian art, the fruit is most commonly depicted as an apple. One possible reason for this would arise from a medieval pun if it were shown that a source of humor to monks lay in consonance of the Latin words for evil and for apple, and thus by eating the malus (apple), Eve contracted malum (evil). There is, however, no textual or historical evidence by which to argue the usage of this image.

Proponents of the theory that the Garden of Eden was located somewhere in what is known now as the Middle East suggest that the fruit was actually a pomegranate. This ties in with the Greek myth of Persephone, where her consumption of seven pomegranate seeds leads to her having to spend time in Hades.

Ethno-botanists have proposed the iboga plant (Tabernanthe iboga) as the Tree of Knowledge. The bark of the root contains a dissociative substance, ibogaine, which has been traditionally used in Bwiti religious ceremony in Central Africa.[7] Other hallucinogens, in particular the Fly agaric mushroom, have also been proposed as the Tree.

Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Liebling: I find interesting about Jewish's belief accord jewish tradition. It seem sense to me...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Black color: accord link from previous post #441.
Blue color: Liebling's post.

Answer: God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice – to obey Him or disobey Him.

But Eve and Adam are naive and innoncent couple in the earth... They have a little experience to develop... because everything is new to them and have no clue what good or bad... It's same with my children as well... They are naive in begin and develop to learn more and more everyday what right or wrong from their parents... Why gave them a choice? I would never do that to my children but show them right and wrong...

Adam and Eve were free to do anything they wanted, except eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:16-17, “And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.’”

It says the same as JW's and Catholic's bible... It didn't say anything that God warn them about Satan and even warn them to leave their garden if they disobey him and eat fruit from tree.... I would warn my children and make sure that my children aware about bad things

God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be “free” – they had to have a choice.

Sure, God warn them about tree of knowledge but not enough... It's God who gave them free to have their choice in first place then throw them out that's because they disobeyed him... I thought he gave them free to have a choice... *scratch my head*

God did not want Adam and Eve to sin.

Then destory the tree of knowledge straight way... that's no excuse for him to say that... "God did not want Adam and Eve to sin..." then destory straight way for their safety... Why can't he do that then? Why can't he do anything for his children's safety then?

God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world.

It says that God knew that Adam and Eve would sin....suffering, etc into the world... Who blame? then blame God, not Eve and Adam.

Why, then, did God put the tree in the Garden of Eden and allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve?

That's good question... That's what I often ask to myself for years....

God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice. God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free wills, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The result – evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death have plagued the world ever since. Adam and Eve's decision results in each and every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin.

Who is the responsible for that? Eve and Adam? No. If I want to do anything to make sure my children's safety then is my responsible, not my children.

 

[Cheri]

Seems to me the discussion been going around the circle repeatedly.


Liebling, You kept on repeating yourself with the same questions over period of times already, and we gave you the same answers several times already, and you still refused to accept it, matter of fact it just show that you're a close mind, yet, you whine and whine about how we haven't answer your questions, I know we have, it's that you're not reading our answers.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It's too late for me to edit my post # 442...

I find interesting about Jewish's belief accord jewish tradition. Their word "In other words, they had to "leave home" and grow up and live as responsible human beings. If they had never eaten from the forbidden tree, they would never have discovered their capacity to act with free will in the world. God does not want human beings who have no choice but to always do what is good and right". seem sense to me.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling, You kept on repeating yourself with the same questions over period of times already, and we gave you the same answers several times already, and you still refused to accept it, matter of fact it just show that you're a close mind, yet, you whine and whine about how we haven't answer your questions, I know we have, it's that is not reading our answers.

If you don't like that don't post here.

I post here because I find interesting and see both sides between the bibles and real life. It's my business, not your. The people and I continue to debate then up to us, not you. If I want question then ask them or if they have questions then ask me... I has a good patience to debate with them, no matter what as long as there're no bash and insult.

wow, what you said yourself here is a judge and an insult to call me whiner. Who closed mind? of course YOU because you REFUSED to see it but complaint about my posts. Have you seen me complaint about your posts...? Nope but accept your post and debate with you... Did I say that you are closed mind to consider your only bible instead of accept both sides between bibles and real life? Nope, but accept what you are... Look yourself what you did here...

It show yourself that you can't accept what I am... From now I don't want to do anything with you anymore... It's finished....

 

[Mistyrose]

Thats why i quit discussing in here...
Ohhh...i got a headache.........

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Thats why i quit discussing in here...
Ohhh...i got a headache.........

yeah, The beleivers are ignorant and refuse to see both sides between the bible and logic but complaint about my posts is the problem ...


I thought the beleivers have good patience but all what I see them is complaint about my posts... Are they true beleiver? *shake my head* All what I see good patience posts here is true beleivers Reba, christlovedeaf and Maria here except you and Cheri....

 

[Cheri]

I thought the beleivers have good patience but all what I see them is complaint about my posts... Are they true beleiver? *shake my head* All what I see good patience posts here is true beleivers Reba, christlovedeaf and Maria here except you and Cheri....

Oh really? Even Reba stated to you, "Obviously it's pointless for me to repeat the answer for a third time because either you're not reading my answers or you simply don't accept them. You've closed your mind, and there's nothing I can do for you."

 

[Reba]

I thought we are talking here about God. Right?

Right. God is not a murderer.

I am asking you to compare between God and person who did the same thing....

There is no comparison. No person is equal to God.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Right. God is not a murderer.


There is no comparison. No person is equal to God.

Do you mean that it's okay for God to kill the people, not humans?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Oh really? Even Reba stated to you, "Obviously it's pointless for me to repeat the answer for a third time because either you're not reading my answers or you simply don't accept them. You've closed your mind, and there's nothing I can do for you."

Yes I have read and answered her post... So?

 

[XBGMER]

Here is simple question, Why God set 10 commandments, " Thou shalt not kill "? God allowed or commanded enemies killed disobedances, Because Enemies aleady read God's scriptures said so!

MARYA> >> God is LOVE? Then GOD is jealously from what holy scripture said so.. Even God hate others.. Why God said in New testment commanded us " don't serve two masters " Love and Hate ". that is not make sense to me. MARIA, you confusing people's minds already

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Here is simple question, Why God set 10 commandments, " Thou shalt not kill "? God allowed or commanded enemies killed disobedances, Because Enemies aleady read God's scriptures said so!

MARYA> >> God is LOVE? Then GOD is jealously from what holy scripture said so.. Even God hate others.. Why God said in New testment commanded us " don't serve two masters " Love and Hate ". that is not make sense to me. MARIA, you confusing people's minds already

Yes I know it's a very simple question... I already stated some of simple questions but my questions are being denied... I'm glad that you are here...

If God really love the people no matter what then accept what they are but he doesn't... He killed the people because of their disobedances and worship different beliefs - mainly worst is innoncent firstborns....

 

[Reba]

Oh I see that you treat God and person who did the same thing differently.

Of course. God and humans are different. Humans don't have the wisdom, holiness, omniscience, omnipresence, eternal perspective, and omnipotence of God. God doesn't have the sin nature and limitations of humans. There is no way they can be compared other than to see how far humans fall below God.

Yes, you said that soliders fight for your country which mean that you think it's okay that soliders die for our country.

I don't think it's "okay" for our soldiers to die. Where did I "... often said that the people killed people for the reasons is no excuse but killing is a sin except Iraq war"? That's not even close to my beliefs or statements. That kind of statement is dangerously close to slander.

You find okay that Bush send soliders to Iraq and claimed that it's only self-defense which I'm disagree to... I said it's attack, not self-defense because Bush send soliders to Iraq which mean is attack, not self-defense. A lot of soliders want to go home but Bush denied them...

You are totally misrepresenting my statements. Please use direct quotations from my posts, and refrain from making false personal attacks on my character.

You are angry when a person killed a child or people in some thread under Current Event...

What's wrong with that?

... and said that Iraq war is okay at War & Political News Section because soliders fight for your country.

So? That's not the same as saying "... that the people killed people for the reasons is no excuse but killing is a sin except Iraq war."

I am asking you for kill comparision between God and people in general which they did the same thing.

God and sinner cannot be compared. Two totally unequal entities cannot be compared with each other.

Thank you for your answer to my question that God is not a murderer which mean that people who did the same thing as God are also not murderer as well.

My answer was that God is not a murderer. I didn't say anything about people committing murders. There is no logic in your statement.

I already answered in my previous post twice that it's self-defense, not murder. If anyone defend themselves from attacker then is not murder because they defend to save their own life.

Then you agree that not all killing is murder.

What God did is not same thing.

True. What God does is way above what we do. He's responsible for all people, of all generations, all over the world, forever. We can't even comprehend that immense duty.

I ask you for your own view and logical.

On that topic, my view is the same as the author's.

I bolded the sections that applied most directly to your questions. Do you understand those sections and disagree? Or do you not understand those sections? If it is the latter, perhaps I can rephrase them for you.

You didn't give me right answer the difference between children's safety and test children's faith but denied my questions...

I didn't give you the "right" answer? Why do I even bother answering if my answers aren't "right" to you? I give you my answers, if they aren't "right" to you there's nothing more I can do. I'm not going to change my answers to fit your concept of rightness.

You're not looking for true answers. You're looking for acceptance of your viewpoint. Sorry, I can't help you there.

 

[Cheri]

Yes I know it's a very simple question... I already stated some of simple questions but my questions are being denied

We've told you, we've even answered your question, It's you who's in denied. Get your fact straight, Liebling.

Let me quote every answers I gave you, even better let me bold the answers God saw how corrupt the Earth had become, during the Noah Ark time, evil all the time, God said "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the Earth – men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and the birds of the air – for I am grieved that I have made them." God did used the flood to destroyed the Earth, because people were sinning, doing wrongs. It is going to happen again when Jesus comes down on earth. Because the world is in chaos. We live in one fucked up world. Why?? it's all because of Adam and Eve, they started with the sins, and passed it along to every human race on earth.

Also Jesus did warn Noah the flood was coming and the world was gonna end, to save as many people as possible, Noah had to give frequent seminars warning the people about the coming flood and the end of life, as they knew i!! After a while, fewer and fewer people attended, until eventually, no one showed up. Who's fault is that? God? No, the people!

God as creator to bring judgment on those who sin against Him. God will eventually judge the nations (for their sins) even us. We shall be judge by God.

If God was really a murder, he wouldn't let his only son die for us, who was sinless. We should be punishment for the crime we committed which the crime would be sin, not Jesus but...

"God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" If you believe in Jesus you shall have eternal life.

You see how many times I've answer your very same question?

 

[Reba]

Well, firemen is the same as cars, trains, planes, swimming, diving, ride bicycles, motorbikes, walking, etc who know how to protect our life from all risk because we are being teach how to protect our life... If we killed by all risks then is accident, not willing to die...

Totally missing the point, again.

The fireman consciously makes a decision to risk his life to save another person. He is willing to die for the other person. If he wasn't willing to die for the other person, he would never enter the burning building and risk his own life.

Riding a motorbike is not the same as saving someone's life, for crying out loud.

 

[Cheri]

Totally missing the point, again.

The fireman consciously makes a decision to risk his life to save another person. He is willing to die for the other person. If he wasn't willing to die for the other person, he would never enter the burning building and risk his own life.

Riding a motorbike is not the same as saving someone's life, for crying out loud.

!!

 

[Maria]

Here is simple question, Why God set 10 commandments, " Thou shalt not kill "? God allowed or commanded enemies killed disobedances, Because Enemies aleady read God's scriptures said so!

MARYA> >> God is LOVE? Then GOD is jealously from what holy scripture said so.. Even God hate others.. Why God said in New testment commanded us " don't serve two masters " Love and Hate ". that is not make sense to me. MARIA, you confusing people's minds already

God is love. ( 1 John 4:8 : " He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. " 1 John 4:16 : " And we know and have believed the love which God hath in us. God is love; and he that abideth in love abideth in God, and God abideth in him. " ) God's love is always righteous, and His righteousness is always marked by love. Love is the primary motivation behind revelation ( John 3:16 ). God's love is expressed as His mercy in forgivin' sinners and in rescuin' or blessin' those who do not deserve His attention.

 

[Mistyrose]

yeah, The beleivers are ignorant and refuse to see both sides between the bible and logic but complaint about my posts is the problem ...


I thought the beleivers have good patience but all what I see them is complaint about my posts... Are they true beleiver? *shake my head* All what I see good patience posts here is true beleivers Reba, christlovedeaf and Maria here except you and Cheri....

Are you calling me and Cheri, UNBELIEVERS?
why?? I am a Christian person so i dont appreciate
you calling me an "unbeliever".
Im sure Cheri dont appreciate it either!