God Versus Satan

[Reba]

...I remember that the Christians often said in any threads that the commit suicide is a sin. What Jesus did is a commit suicide...or what?

No, Jesus didn't commit suicide. He was executed on the cross by the Romans.

 

[Reba]

You said in other posts that JW´s book is not bible translation book.

This is what you posted:

"My Book of Bible Stories"
"You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth"

The first one, "My Book of Bible Stories" clearly shows that it is a book of Bible stories. It's a story book, not a Bible. That's what the JW's themselves call it. If you don't agree, complain to them, not me.

This is from their own website:

"My Book of Bible Stories

Its 116 Bible accounts appear in the order of their historical occurrence. The book is especially designed for young children, yet everyone can benefit from the book’s more than 125 beautiful illustrations. 256 pages."
Publications Available - Jehovah’s Witnesses Official Web Site

The second one, "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" is no longer on the JW list of publications at their website.

The only information I could find about it is from used book sellers, or non-JW reviews. I guess they no longer use that book.

Again, the author of bibles did not call God a murder but we people open our mind and see the sense what and how God did to the people.

So now you admit that the Bible does NOT say God is a murderer?

What would you call if a person kill people when you disagree that it´s a murder or killer, then what? Punishment? not murder?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Now I understand why the German judicial system doesn't use citizen juries.

That´s why we do not support death penalty because they are also murder, too. I would consider Government as a murder the same, no matter what if they punish the bad people to death.

:roll: Shoot me now, get it over with.

 

[Reba]

Yep, he sent his son to Earth to be slaughtered by the Jews.

Jesus was crucified by the Romans but His death was because of the sins of everyone, Gentile and Jew.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Don't you even read your own statements?

Your posts:

"I do not wish to label God as murder but only say what the bibles say."

http://www.alldeaf.com/756994-post67.html

"Yes, I said that God is a murder is a fact because our bibles says so..."

http://www.alldeaf.com/759233-post358.html



You can't weasel out of this one. Your words are posted for all to see.

If you make outrageous statements, you should be "man" enough to back them up.

I stand what I said... I never said that the Bible call God a murder but I myself. I only label God as a murder because the bible says so which mean is the bible said that God killed the people. This is a difference...

Yes, I've answered that question of your's several times, in several threads.

I don't "label" people who kill other people. There are too many variables. "Killing" includes accidents, self-defense, combat, manslaughter, lawful execution, abortion, euthanasia, homicide, neglect, etc.

This is an illogical answer... It look like that you denied my question... We are talking here about what the God "punished" bad people to death, not accidents, self-defense, combat, manslaughter, abortion, etc what the God did to the people. Oh yes I already answered your posts about abortion, self-defense, murder, etc.... God didn't do kind of killing like this but killed the people for the reason is BECAUSE the people are bad and don't beleive in him. It's God who killed the people, I'm ask you the question about to compare with the people who kill the people for the reason because it relate the thread here. Oh yes, I have seen your posts in some thread to label the person as murder because he/she killed people and children for reasons... You often said that the people killed people for the reasons is no excuse but killing is a sin except Iraq war. I remember your word.

I asked you the question again: What should you label a person who kill the people as .......... for the reasons except accidents, self-defense, combat, manslaughter, lawful execution, abortion, euthanasia, homicide, neglect, etc. ?

Also, you're asking about "a person kill person." God is God, not any "person" as a mortal human being.

Kill is Kill, no matter what.

Yes, I did. The link I provided you included the same information that I would use.

If you have specific questions about any parts of that link, please post the reference and question.

I can give you the answers. I can't force you to believe them. But don't say I didn't answer your question just because you don't accept the answer.

Why can't you see the logical yourself instead do what the author of your link says about tree of knowledge... It look like that you deny my logic question because you don't know what you should answer... You knew very well that it's God who created the tree of knowledge or Evil in first place... Would you do something bad like that to test your children or rather to have your children's safety? I bet you would choose children's safety over test them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, Jesus didn't commit suicide.

The bible says that God and his son Jesus KNEW their plans. What is this?
Should I say that God knew his plan for his son and sent him to earth to be die as sacrifice? OR Jesus know his plan to be die for us is commit suicide?

He was executed on the cross by the Romans.

Exactly

 

[Reba]

After read those link, you provided here but it´s not enough... I´m still confusing...

Again, why God create the tree of knowledge in first place when he want everything to be prefect and forever?

Why God created Evil in first place.. Is it because he want to test their faith or not?

I thought God can see future and know it´s bad... ? If yes, why can´t he destory tree of knowledge to save worst...before he created Eve and Adam. It would not happened if there´re no tree of knowledge... Right?

Why Did God Create the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil?
by Moisés Pinedo

And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (Genesis 2:9)

Since the earliest ages of human history, people have tried to excuse their wrong actions, and thereby avoid their personal responsibility. In the beginning, man used his mental capabilities to “ingeniously” create the first excuse that would absolve him of his culpability for breaking the law of God. He declared in his own defense: “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate” (Genesis 3:12). The woman, following the “shrewd example” of her mate who thought he had placed the guilt upon her, quickly pondered: “The serpent deceived me, and I ate” (Genesis 3:13).

Actually, the situation has not changed much since then. Man has continued in his endless search for ever more subtle, sophisticated, and convincing excuses that could set him free from his moral and/or spiritual responsibility. In a more brazen way than the first man—who charged the woman directly, and God indirectly, when he said: “The woman whom You gave to be with me...” (Genesis 3:12)—many today have puffed themselves up with pride to set God up as the initiator, promoter, and instigator of the tragedy in Eden. Norman Masters, in answering the question, “Who’s to blame for mankind’s fall in the garden?,” emphatically declared:

The “Lord God” is the “Tempter” in Eden in Genesis 2:17 when He says, “...but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die”.... Tell a child or juvenile not to do something and you’re immediately establishing the temptation to do it. If you don’t want to tempt them you never mention it—and make sure the temptation is not available to be yielded to (2000, emp. added).

Therefore, with this single defamatory charge, many men have attempted to forsake all weight of culpability and responsibility. [The truth is that if God is accused of our tragedies, errors, and corrupt actions, then man becomes “free” of his responsibility to God—and it is this freedom (or licentiousness) that many want to attain]. However, these men simply have not wanted to retain God in their lives (Romans 1:28), and in their efforts to find some peace in their licentious actions that impute their conscience, they have involved themselves in a deliberate search for a kind of intrinsic evil in the Divine nature.

On the other hand, there are those who do believe in the loving God the Bible reveals (1 John 4:8), but who find it difficult to understand (or explain): (a) why God allows some things to happen to His creatures without supernaturally intervening; and (b) why it even “appears” that sometimes God Himself influences things negatively, thereby bringing misfortune down on man. Hence, the question is bound to arise: Why did God create the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

THE INTRINSIC NATURE OF THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL

The Creation account of Genesis is one of the most sublime narrations recorded in the Bible. The Creator’s masterpiece is a harmonious symphony that delights our ears. There is only one thing that squeaks in our eardrum—something that has impeded many from believing in the Creator—the creation of a specific tree. For many, the question, “Why did God create this tree,” is unanswerable, since they cannot reconcile the idea of a benevolent God with the fact of the creation of something that resulted in man’s fall. As one writer suggested:

This verse may be interpreted as if God also created evil.... Often believers affirm that all good comes from God, and evil comes from man, [but] it seems that at the moment of reading the Bible they forget that the same God who created the good, also created evil.... [W]hat necessity did God have to plant this tree whose fruits were fruits of evil? And here a dilemma is posed, either God did not know what was going to happen with this bothersome little tree, or if He did know, then why did He make the tree? If He did not know it then He was not wise, and if He knew it He was wicked (Alba, n.d., emp. added).

However, assuming that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was evil is the main error that a person makes while wanting (or not wanting, as the quotation above makes obvious) to understand God’s ways. Genesis 1:31 records: “Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good.” Scriptures clearly declare that everything God had created was not only good, but “very good.” Exodus 20:11 records that everything was created in the six days of divine creative activity; thus, nothing was created after those days. The truthful and unavoidable conclusion, then, is that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was in fact “very good.”

There is something else that needs to be stressed when addressing the intrinsic nature of this tree. Although the name given to the tree hints at something negative because of the word “evil”; the fact is that this tree was not a generator of evil. The tree itself was not “of good and evil”(i.e., that it did not contain good and evil). Rather, it was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. These are two very different things. When Moses wrote about the “knowledge” contained in the fruit of this tree, he used the Hebrew term da´at—which implies discernment and distinction, but does not imply necessarily intimate involvement. [This term is used only twice in Genesis, and in both instances it refers to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil]. Nevertheless, when expressing discernment and/or intimate involvement, Moses used the term yada. About this term, the Vine’s Expositive Dictionary notes: “Essentially, yada means: (1) to know by observation and reflection, and (2) to know by experience” (Vine, 1999, p. 65, emp. added).

Consequently, a difference in the usage of these two terms can be found in Genesis 4:1, where “...Adam knew (yada—knowledge by intimate involvement) Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain,” and in Genesis 2:17, where God stated: “...but of the tree of the knowledge [da´at—distinction of the knowledge] of good and evil you shall not eat.” Certainly, this knowledge did not involve anything bad by itself, since it was not based in the experience of good and evil, but rather in the enlargement of the mind’s understanding to distinguish between good and evil. As in the case of the Bible—which gives us the knowledge of the good that we need to do, and the evil that we need to avoid (without necessarily inducing us to do evil)—this tree contained such knowledge. But if this tree did not have an evil nature, then what made this tree one which was not good to eat?

THE NECESSITY OF THE DIVINE COMMAND AND PROHIBITION

If something made the fruit of this tree not ideal to eat, surely it had nothing to do with the nature of the tree itself (since everything God had created was “very good”), but instead had to do with God’s command and prohibition. When God prohibited man from eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17), He did not attribute anything bad to the tree per se. However, He did point out the tragic consequence of eating from the tree, which was not a result of the tree’s intrinsic nature, but of disobedience to God’s command. [Consider the fact that God likewise could have prohibited man from eating of the tree of life (alluded to in Genesis 2:9). Even though by its very name this tree denoted something positive, man still would not have been excused if he had disobeyed a divine command not to eat its fruit.]

But why was the divine prohibition regarding the tree of the knowledge of good and evil necessary? Could not God have left out this tree, and thus the accompanying prohibition, and thereby have guaranteed the eternal happiness of His creatures? Rich Deem has discussed these very questions.

Skeptics often complain that God set Adam and Eve up to fail. However, God had to give Adam and Eve a choice. Without free will to choose, Adam and Eve would have been mere puppets. True love always requires choice. God wanted Adam and Eve to choose to love and trust Him. The only way to give this choice would have been to command something that was not allowed (2004, emp. added).

In fact, the creation of this tree and the subsequent delivery of Heaven’s prohibition can be explained (if not totally, at least in great part) on the basis of divine love. The Bible declares that God is love (1 John 4:8). Therefore, all His actions toward man—from his creation to his redemption—were products of His love. Wayne Jackson has noted:

[H]eaven’s love was demonstrated in that humanity was endowed with free will; we were granted freedom of choice (cf. Genesis 2: 16,17, Joshua 24:15, Isaiah 7:15, John 5:39,40, 7:17, and Revelation 22:17). Could anyone conceive of God as a loving God Who created intelligent beings, but then programmed them to slavishly serve Him without any personal willpower? Hardly! (1994, emp. added).

The truth of the matter is that love requires free will—and free will, for its consummation, requires the possibility that a choice one way or the other can be made. In order for man to have choices that allowed for the use of his personal volition, a divine command was necessary. Simultaneously, of course, having the command in place paved the way for the possibility of freely choosing to either obey or to disobey such a command.

God, in His infinite love, wanted for man to enjoy free will, and to choose to do His will. He wanted for man to love Him, not because it was the only option available to him, but because it was the only option that would guarantee him eternal joy.

We also need to remember that just because God knows the future, does not somehow make Him evil if He does not act on that knowledge to change the future. We, as humans, act in a similar manner. For instance, there are many things we do for “love,” even though we recognize before we do them that there will be times when things will not always turn out for the best. As an example, we bring children into this world with the foreknowledge that they will get sick, make wrong choices, suffer, be hated, get old, get weak, and die. While God knows the future and has the power to change it, He cannot do so if man is to retain his personal volition.

DIVINE PROVIDENCE

In a profanely titled article, “Sins of the Father,” the following declaration can be found:

If he didn’t want Adam and Eve to eat from it, then why did he put it in Eden in the first place? This boggles the mind! Why create such a dangerous yet alluring object and place it right in the middle of Paradise, unprotected, where it could readily be eaten from? He could have put a fence around it at the very least!...[D]id God set a trap for his creations? Did he want to have an excuse to exile them from Paradise? (see Ebon, n.d., emp. added, italics in orig.).

Now, God is charged not only with creating something “dangerous” for man, but also with not providing any prevention and security system in order for His creatures’ safety. However, as noted earlier, God is love (1 John 4:8); and this trait of God, as exhibited in the tragic story of Eden, is shown in His providence for man. This providence is carefully placed within the account of Genesis 2—although it is a type of providence that many people cannot see (or do not care to acknowledge). God always wanted for man to keep His commands, and hence He used various means to facilitate such obedience. Consider the following points.

First, God placed the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden (Genesis 3:3). This location was strategic. Because the tree was located in the midst of the garden, there was no way that man could eat of its fruit by mistaking it for another. Unlike what is declared on occasion by skeptics, this location assured that man would not sin through ignorance or disorientation.

Second,God also placed the tree of life in the midst of the garden (Genesis 2:9). The fact that this tree, too, was in the midst of the garden served as a means of attraction to do good when man was influenced to disobey God. By locating this tree very close to the other tree, God reminded man that he had the freedom—and thus the option—to choose obedience over disobedience, life over death.

Third, the prohibition and potential punishment were intended to serve as a “fence” to prevent man from violating the divinely instituted boundary. God told him: “For in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die” (Genesis 2:17). Because there was a promised consequence for his actions, there also was the fear of enduring this terrible consequence. That alone should have been enough to keep man away from this tree.

Fourth, God created many more trees, with the intent that man would not have need to eat of this prohibited tree (Genesis 2:9). God not only made various types of trees grow in the garden, but the text informs us that “every tree that was pleasant to the sight.” God not only made sure that there were many trees for man, but He also made sure that these trees looked attractive to man. The attraction of every tree in the garden represented a fundamental piece intended to distract any possible craving that man might have for the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Certainly, God provided the necessary means for man to obey His divine will. In spite of that, some still see the creation of this tree as a fundamental proof of God’s “dark side.” Yet we should not level such a charge against the God Who created a perfect world for man, endowed him with free will, and provided so much warning to keep man from sinning.

In conclusion, one more point needs to be stressed. Adam, as has every man after him, enjoyed the free will that would allow him to choose to do right. Although Adam decided to disobey God, it does not mean that God’s plan failed. The truth is that when man falls into sin and disobedience, God should not be blamed. The inspired writer James declared: “Let no one say when he is tempted, ‘I am tempted by God’; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone” (1:13, emp. added). Bible believers can be sure that, in our exercise of personal volition, God’s desire will be always our well-being. In the same way that Adam had to choose between life and death, you and I are called to make our own choices. It is the will of God, of course, that we choose life. Moses urged the people of God: “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live” (Deuteronomy 30:19).

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree with you.

I can imagine what it would be like if we were to apply the judicial system to Adam and Eve.

It would be argued that they were tempted by Satan. And of course, Satan's argument would be... "What's wrong with the tree? If it's the tree of knowledge, then the people have the right to that knowledge!"

Good theory... Yes I'm for knowledge.... Am I Satan or what?

I think those dictonary will helps the bible beleivers to understand what the knowledge is.
knowledge definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta



Other theory...

Who is the responsible if I leave my children alone with "dangerous" tree? I or my children?

 

[Reba]

The bible says that God and his son Jesus KNEW their plans. What is this?
Should I say that God knew his plan for his son and sent him to earth to be die as sacrifice? OR Jesus know his plan to be die for us is commit suicide?

Suppose a fireman sacrifices his life to save someone from a burning building. Is that suicide? NO. The fireman didn't die because he wanted to die; he died because he wanted the other person to live.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Suppose a fireman sacrifices his life to save someone from a burning building. Is that suicide? NO. The fireman didn't die because he wanted to die; he died because he wanted the other person to live.

I see different.

No, the firemen do not plan to die but knew that job is risk their life to save people's life. This is a difference. They tried with their theory to protect their life to save the people's life... sometimes they killed by accdients which is not the same thing as Jesus... Jesus know his plan and willing to do it instead of try to protect his life...

 

[Reba]

I stand what I said... I never said that the Bible call God a murder but I myself. I only label God as a murder because the bible says so which mean is the bible said that God killed the people. This is a difference...

This is an illogical answer... It look like that you denied my question... We are talking here about what the God "punished" bad people to death, not accidents, self-defense, combat, manslaughter, abortion, etc what the God did to the people.

If your question is about God, then my answer is God is not a murderer.

...It's God who killed the people, I'm ask you the question about to compare with the people who kill the people for the reason because it relate the thread here.

OK, God is not a murderer.

Oh yes, I have seen your posts in some thread to label the person as murder because he/she killed people and children for reasons... You often said that the people killed people for the reasons is no excuse but killing is a sin except Iraq war. I remember your word.

What?!!! I said that there is no excuse for killing people except in the Iraq war? You have got to be kidding!!!!

I asked you the question again: What should you label a person who kill the people as ...for the reasons except accidents, self-defense, combat, manslaughter, lawful execution, abortion, euthanasia, homicide, neglect, etc.?

I don't "label" people without knowing the full story about the individual and situation. Are you truly asking about people in general, or are you asking about God? If you are asking about God, then my answer is, God is not a murderer.

Kill is Kill, no matter what.

That's true. If someone is killed, no matter by whom or how, dead is dead.

But not every killing is murder. For example, if you kill someone to stop him from killing your child, that's not murder.

Why can't you see the logical yourself instead do what the author of your link says about tree of knowledge... It look like that you deny my logic question because you don't know what you should answer...

I agree with what he wrote. It was very lengthy and I didn't see any reason to give you the same answer twice.

You knew very well that it's God who created the tree of knowledge or Evil in first place... Would you do something bad like that to test your children or rather to have your children's safety? I bet you would choose children's safety over test them.

Obviously it's pointless for me to repeat the answer for a third time because either you're not reading my answers or you simply don't accept them. You've closed your mind, and there's nothing I can do for you.

 

[Reba]

... Jesus know his plan and willing to do it instead of try to protect his life...

When a fireman enters a life or death situation for another person, he knows the plan and is willing to do it instead of trying to protect his own life.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

 

[Reba]

God knows what will happen to the people he sends to Earth.

God didn't send "people" to Earth.

In this case, God knew that people would slaughter Jesus... but sent him anyway.

Because He loved us worthless sinners so much, He was willing to make that awful sacrifice.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

This is what you posted:

"My Book of Bible Stories"
"You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth"

The first one, "My Book of Bible Stories" clearly shows that it is a book of Bible stories. It's a story book, not a Bible. That's what the JW's themselves call it. If you don't agree, complain to them, not me.

This is from their own website:

"My Book of Bible Stories

Its 116 Bible accounts appear in the order of their historical occurrence. The book is especially designed for young children, yet everyone can benefit from the book’s more than 125 beautiful illustrations. 256 pages."
Publications Available - Jehovah’s Witnesses Official Web Site

The second one, "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth" is no longer on the JW list of publications at their website.

Yes it's bible story book and bible book with scriptures "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth".. I am going to scan the 2 books to show you tonight. I do not complaint but accept JW's belief because it's their belief. Yes JW call it themselves... So? It's not just JW but kind of Religions do the same as well... They also call it themselves as well...

Anyway, those bible story, I read is like history. I enjoy myself to read any historical books including bibles. Yes I already compared the bible story between JW and Roman Catholic - they are bit different... but I really don't care but accept their beliefs. Read the bible story with pictures is more easier than study the scriptures and do what it says.

The only information I could find about it is from used book sellers, or non-JW reviews. I guess they no longer use that book.

I guess that my 2 books are from old Testanment, not new Testament. It's same with your bible and other bibles as well... I will ask JW hearing lady about this in her next visit to us. She is very nice lady and accept what we are... She came to visit us for the chat... She like to sign with us. I didn't show my 2 books to her in her last visit because she didn't come to convince us her belief but a very little. I will bring this subject up to her in her next visit and let you know what she think.

So now you admit that the Bible does NOT say God is a murderer?

admit? I didn't admit anything but only give you a honest answer because you asked me either the bible call God a murderer. I said no, because the human bible author didn't label God a murderer but punished bad people to death for their different beleif. Admit? I do not see anything that I admit... I only see that I label God as a murderer or killer because the bible say that God killed the people...

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Oh yes, you know what I am talking about. You disagree that God is a murderer or killer and denied that the bible says God killed the bad people to death and blame the bad people for their disobedience. How could God killed innoncent firstborns because firstborns have no clue what disobedience is about...

That's why I asked you what would you call a person kill people as.......... if it's not murder... no matter either person or God but they did the same thing... as ............? Do you blame the children because a person killed them? Do you blame people for their disobedience, not murderer or killer?

:roll: Shoot me now, get it over with.

kill is kill

 

[Reba]

Yes it's bible story book and bible book with scriptures "You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth"...I am going to scan the 2 books to show you tonight.

That's really not necessary to do all that work. I can see them on line.

I guess that my 2 books are from old Testanment, not new Testament. It's same with your bible and other bibles as well...

What's the same? My Bible has the Old and New Testaments.

...I will bring this subject up to her in her next visit and let you know what she think.

Honestly, I don't care what she thinks. But you can do whatever you want.

... I only see that I label God as a murderer or killer because the bible say that God killed the people...

kill is kill

Killing is killing but not all killing is murder.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If your question is about God, then my answer is God is not a murderer.
OK, God is not a murderer.

Oh I see that you treat God and person who did the same thing differently.

What?!!! I said that there is no excuse for killing people except in the Iraq war? You have got to be kidding!!!!

Yes, you said that soliders fight for your country which mean that you think it's okay that soliders die for our country. You find okay that Bush send soliders to Iraq and claimed that it's only self-defense which I'm disagree to... I said it's attack, not self-defense because Bush send soliders to Iraq which mean is attack, not self-defense. A lot of soliders want to go home but Bush denied them... You are angry when a person killed a child or people in some thread under Current Event and said that Iraq war is okay at War & Political News Section because soliders fight for your country.

I don't "label" people without knowing the full story about the individual and situation. Are you truly asking about people in general, or are you asking about God? If you are asking about God, then my answer is, God is not a murderer.

Me either... I don't label/judge anyone as murder until therer'e 100% proof there...

I am asking you for kill comparision between God and people in general which they did the same thing.

Thank you for your answer to my question that God is not a murderer which mean that people who did the same thing as God are also not murderer as well.

That's true. If someone is killed, no matter by whom or how, dead is dead.

But not every killing is murder. For example, if you kill someone to stop him from killing your child, that's not murder.

I already answered in my previous post twice that it's self-defense, not murder. If anyone defend themselves from attacker then is not murder because they defend to save their own life.

If I see attacker tried to kill my child then I stop him and try to save my child's life if the attacker tried to kill me for save my child's life then I have to kill him is self-defense. What God did is not same thing.

I agree with what he wrote. It was very lengthy and I didn't see any reason to give you the same answer twice.

I already told you that your link, you provided is a confusing because I don't understand the logical what the author wrote. I ask you for your own view and logical.

Obviously it's pointless for me to repeat the answer for a third time because either you're not reading my answers or you simply don't accept them. You've closed your mind, and there's nothing I can do for you.

Yes I am agree that I can't do anything with the people who close their mind and depend on books and do what the books say all the time and denied logical questions without compare between the books and logic what and how we did with our real life.

A person who depend on only bible without see the logic at real life is a closed minded... and compare both sides between bible and logic at real life is a open-minded.

You didn't give me right answer the difference between children's safety and test children's faith but denied my questions...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Killing is killing but not all killing is murder.

I thought we are talking here about God. Right?

I am asking you to compare between God and person who did the same thing....

 

[Liebling:-)))]

When a fireman enters a life or death situation for another person, he knows the plan and is willing to do it instead of trying to protect his own life.

If you can't see that, I can't help you.

Well, firemen is the same as cars, trains, planes, swimming, diving, ride bicycles, motorbikes, walking, etc who know how to protect our life from all risk because we are being teach how to protect our life... If we killed by all risks then is accident, not willing to die...

I know I might risk my life because I drive to work every day..

I know I might risk my life when I cross on the street...

I know I might risk my life when I am on the train or plane...

I know I might risk my life when I swim or dive ...

I know I might risk my life when I ride bicycle or motorbike...

All what I do is protect my life and take care of risk carefully then I will be okay but I know and accept that it could be happened sometimes... It could be happened rare when the people did carefully but what Jesus did is not the same thing.

This is a difference.

If you can't understand that, I can't help you either.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Because He loved us worthless sinners so much, He was willing to make that awful sacrifice.

Would you do the same for love?

I would not.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

It's too late for me to edit my post.
http://www.alldeaf.com/760027-post437.html

It is also including plane pilot, train driver as well...

Firemen have special clothes to protect from fire...it is about try to protect their life as the same as the list, I posted. It is about life protection ... same with cars, trains, planes, etc... We all try our best to protect our life and take care of risk carefully including everywhere including air pollution...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Murder

Intentional takin' of human life, unlawful killin' of a human bein' by another ( Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17 : " Thou shall not kill " ) because persons are created in the image of God and human life is viewed as a sacred trust. Deliberately takin' the life of a human bein' ursurps the authority that belongs to God. Murderer should be prepared to forfeit his own life ( Genesis 9:6 : " Whoso sheddeth man`s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: For in the image of God made he man. "; Numbers 35:16-31 : " But if he smote him with an instrument of iron, so that he died, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. And if he smote him with a stone in the hand, whereby a man may die, and he died, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. Or if he smote him with a weapon of wood in the hand, whereby a man may die, and he died, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. The avenger of blood shall himself put the murderer to death: when he meeteth him, he shall put him to death. And if he thrust him of hatred, or hurled at him, lying in wait, so that he died, or in enmity smote him with his hand, so that he died; he that smote him shall surely be put to death; he is a murderer: the avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death, when he meeteth him. But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or hurled upon him anything without lying in wait, or with any stone, whereby a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, so that he died, and he was not his enemy, neither sought his harm; then the congregation shall judge between the smiter and the avenger of blood according to these ordinances; and the congregation shall deliver the manslayer out of the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall restore him to his city of refuge, whither he was fled: and he shall dwell therein until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the holy oil. But if the manslayer shall at any time go beyond the border of his city of refuge, whither he fleeth, and the avenger of blood find him without the border of his city of refuge, and the avenger of blood slay the manslayer; he shall not be guilty of blood, because he should have remained in his city of refuge until the death of the high priest: but after the death of the high priest the manslayer shall return into the land of his possession. And these things shall be for a statute [and] ordinance unto you throughout your generations in all your dwellings. Whoso killeth any person, the murderer shall be slain at the mouth of witnesses: but one witness shall not testify against any person that he die. Moreover ye shall take no ransom for the life of a murderer, that is guilty of death; but he shall surely be put to death. " ). Jesus removed the concept of murder from a physical act to the intention of one's heart ( Matthew 5:21-22 : " Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. " ). Murder really begins when one loses respect for another human bein'. " Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abidin' in him ( 1 John 3:15 ).

Simple question...

Why is it ok for God to kill, not humans?