Florida Neighborhood Watch

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Jiro said:
well the law disagrees with you. whether or not if Zimmerman is innocent, the association is still held liable for it. civil lawsuit, you know?
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Background on the Development of Neighborhood Watch Organizations


A neighborhood watch can be formed as its own entity or it may be the secondary function of a neighborhood association or other community association. It should be noted that neighborhood watches are not vigilante groups. They do not fight crime. The goal of a neighborhood watch is to prevent crime from occurring. If you encounter a crime that has been or is being committed, or if you suspect criminal activities may occur, watch members are encouraged to contact authorities and not try to intervene, as it would likely just further endanger themselves and others.

The current system of neighborhood watches in the USA developed in the 1960’s when individuals became weary of not knowing what to do in crisis situations, and of the unwillingness of neighbors to assist each other in crisis situations. This dissatisfaction lead to locals forming groups to watch over their neighborhoods and to look out for any suspicious criminal activity in their areas.
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so where is the law that says a neighborhood watch organization has to register with the police?

refer to post #616 and #619


on a side note the word "encouraged" does not mean "ordered". And Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 as he had been encouraged to do when witnessing suspicious activity.
 
hint for you, Steinhauer - OJ Simpson case.

He was acquitted from criminal court. and civil lawsuit held him liable for wrongful death. This is exactly what I predict will happen to association.
 
Steinhauer said:
Background on the Development of Neighborhood Watch Organizations

so where is the law that says a neighborhood watch organization has to register with the police?

refer to post #616 and #619
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I've never said it MUST be registered with police. I only said it ISN'T registered with the police. Huge difference. So what I'm saying is that this so-called Neighborhood Watch program is not endorsed by official organization nor on par with the official rules. Meaning.... anybody can order a Neighborhood Watch sign from online and self-appoint oneself as "captain" or whatever the title they want.

The association allowed this and let this unstable troubled man to serve as a home cop. so now they will be held liable for it.

This part is especially important because it's all about liability. Who oversees this? Who appointed Zimmerman? Who allowed this Neighborhood Watch program? Does this program meet the official standard?

Since this neighborhood watch program isn't registered with Sanford Police Department, this mean they're not responsible for them nor would be held liable for them. It belongs to the association and they will be held liable for Trayvon's death via wrongful death lawsuit and the law agrees.

Steinhauer said:
on a side note the word "encouraged" does not mean "ordered". And Zimmerman was on the phone with 911 as he had been encouraged to do when witnessing suspicious activity.
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according to Home - National Neighborhood Watch Institute which is where the association bought the sign from
National Neighborhood Watch Institute (NNWI) is the premier national supplier of Neighborhood Watch materials. NNWI was the provider of the Sanford Florida sign seen so prominently in recent news coverage.

Our Participants Handbook states, "Always remember that your responsibility is to report crime. Do not take any risks to prevent a crime or try to make an arrest. The responsibility for apprehending criminals belongs to the police/sheriff."

Neighborhood Watch participants act as additional eyes and ears for law enforcement.

They do not take the law into their own hands.
We Look Out For Each Other is our motto.
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and you might want to start with this one.... the "real" Neighborhood Watch program. the founder of Neighborhood Watch program - USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program (housed within the National Sheriffs’ Association)
 
before reading this article, I want to you to notice that Carmen Caldwell has been the executive director of Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade since 2000. She is a crime prevention practitioner certified by the Florida attorney general's office. Carmen oversees a program that has more than 800,000 crime watcher volunteers involving more than 47,000 neighborhoods throughout Miami-Dade County. Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade has been a nonprofit organization since 1976 and is funded by the Miami-Dade Board of County Commission, grants, and donations.

More information can be found here.

George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization
"When you are dealing with thousands of volunteers -- people who have said we are going to step up to the plate and help make our neighborhood better -- if it's someone that I or an officer has an uncomfortable feeling about, or a neighbor might come up and say 'that person really isn't safe,' we check it out," Caldwell said. "We try to be careful about who becomes part of the Neighborhood Watch."

But some areas lack the necessary police resources to conduct background checks on all Neighborhood Watch volunteers, because they are strapped for cash, Caldwell continued. Another pitfall is that Neighborhood Watch training does not involve any psychological evaluation.

Yet, Tutko believes that if Zimmerman had tried to join or start a registered group, he would have been stopped. The fact that Zimmerman was known to have made over 40 calls to police to report suspicious activities in recent months would have raised suspicions of him. "If the police were called that many times, you look at what the end game was," he said. "Was there anything found? If nothing was found, that person needs to be counseled, or reeducated, or otherwise told you are not going to be allowed on the Neighborhood Watch."

Zimmerman also called himself the "captain" of his neighborhood watch leading many to question whether it is some sort of militaristic organization, which might have emboldened Martin's killer to use violence. "When you say 'block captain'? To me that's an administrative person, someone who puts together schedules," Tutko clarified. "But certainly you're not the person in charge, and no one will be following orders from this person."

All of these factors point to the benefits of registering Neighborhood Watch groups, who receive training, vetting, and work intimately with police. "It comes down to [knowing] the person that's out there. If you're not partnering with a law enforcement agency, who vets these people? How do we know? We could be sitting talking in a meeting, talking about going on vacation, and our alarms and locks, and the person in the meeting, who is a member of the neighborhood watch, could be the person who is going to break into your house -- and we don't know that," Tutko warned.

The tragedy of Trayvon Martin's death at the hands of someone who claimed to be a Neighborhood Watch captain will not alter the structure of the organization. Yet, "Our condolences go out to the family, because this was not necessary," Tutko said of the Trayvon Martin shooting.

"The only change will be to use this as an example of what not to do," he confirmed.

"Neighborhood Watch -- the way we teach it, and the way it has always been -- is based on the premise that we don't carry weapons, nor do we intervene in any incidences," the leader continued. "Because what that does is escalate a situation and makes a volunteer another victim. We'll use this sad event as a bad example, but we won't be changing any literature or protocols."

For Caldwell, Martin's death might strengthen the resolve of Neighborhood Watch volunteers to do good.

"Does this put a blemish on Neighborhood Watch? At first I thought it might," Caldwell concluded. "But the people that are truly trained, that are part of Neighborhood Watch, know that this is more the exception to the rule, than anything else," she said of Martin's shooting.

"And they know what the right program is, and what the wrong program is. This has made people stronger and more determined that they get people involved in the right way. They want to reinforce the philosophy of Neighborhood Watch."
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Neighborhood Watch Under Fire After Teen's Death : NPR
GREG ALLEN, BYLINE: This year marks the 40th anniversary of neighborhood watch. For 37 of those years, Miami-Dade County has been part of the program. Headquarters for the Citizens Crime Watch are in an office park near Miami's airport.

CARMEN CALDWELL: Hey, nice to meet you.

ALLEN: Hi, Carmen.

The executive director is an irrepressible, 30-year veteran of neighborhood watch programs, Carmen Caldwell. She got involved as a volunteer in the '80s. When she heard about the events in Sanford, Caldwell says her first reaction was, that's not how neighborhood watch operates. Caldwell says her office is adamant about the rules - and they're simple.

CALDWELL: No intervening, no carrying weapons, no patrolling the area - and your only job is to call the police when you see something suspicious.

ALLEN: Miami-Dade's neighborhood watch program is more closely supervised than many. Caldwell gets much of her funding from the county government, and works to register all her groups with the National Sheriff's Association. This week, at a city commission meeting attended by several hundred people in Sanford, congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee quoted from the sheriff's association guidelines for neighborhood watch programs.

REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE: The purpose of the neighborhood watch program is to enable citizens to act as the eyes and ears within the community, and to alert law enforcement...

(SOUNDBITE OF CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

LEE: ...immediately, when suspicious activity has occurred.

ALLEN: That was supposed to be the case at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, the townhome community where George Zimmerman was neighborhood watch captain. In the homeowner's association newsletter, residents were urged to keep their eyes open and if they saw anything suspicious, to call the police. Although the events that led to Trayvon Martin's shooting are still not clear, it appears Zimmerman went far beyond that.

Congresswoman Lee says she plans to introduce a bill in Congress that would require some sort of mandatory certification for neighborhood watch groups. Chris Tutko, who coordinates neighborhood watch for the National Sheriff's Association, is skeptical that's the answer.

CHRIS TUTKO: It may be possible but again, it's going to be quite intensive. And there are just too many out there that we don't know about. I have 25,000 registered with me right now, and I would estimate it's probably five, six, seven times that amount.

ALLEN: Many neighborhood watch groups require that 30 or 40 percent of residents participate. It's not clear how many, besides Zimmerman, were active participants in Sanford. The homeowner's association newsletter urged residents to call him if they'd been victimized. The group did have a relationship with police, although they weren't registered with the National Sheriff's Association.

Ken Novak is an associate professor of criminal justice at the University of Missouri, Kansas City, who has studied neighborhood watch programs. He agrees that national certification probably won't accomplish much, but he thinks the Trayvon Martin shooting will have an impact on neighborhood watch.

KENNETH NOVAK: Local police departments will likely have to reassess how much they know about neighborhood watch within their city, and making sure that the expectations are communicated to those groups about not getting involved directly.

ALLEN: That appears already to be happening. In Lee County, Florida, this week, for example, the sheriff's office sent out a memo reminding volunteers that neighborhood watch is a no-contact activity.
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Jiro said:
...what a shame.... the association should have hired a real private security firm. This so-called neighborhood watch isn't even registered with Sanford Police Department.
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Most HOA's can't afford to hire private security. For example, our community HOA. We pay $125 per year. That has to cover maintenance of the front entrance, pool area, and other common areas, the electric bill for the street lights, property taxes, water and sewer for irrigation, legal fees, property management services, and insurance.

Neighborhood watches in this area are coordinated under the police and sheriff's departments.
 
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Jiro said:
well the law disagrees with you. whether or not if Zimmerman is innocent, the association is still held liable for it. civil lawsuit, you know?
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It depends on whether or not the crime watch group was sanctioned by the HOA.
 
Jiro said:
it was.
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That's different from our neighborhood. In our subdivision, the crime watch organizations are separate from the HOA. About 2/3 of our neighborhood is in the county, so they are under the sheriff's department. The other 1/3 of the neighborhood (newer section) is in the town limits, so it's under the police department's jurisdiction. The HOA doesn't control any of it.
 
Reba said:
Most HOA's can't afford to hire private security. For example, our community HOA. We pay $125 per year. That has to cover maintenance of the front entrance, pool area, and other common areas, the electric bill for the street lights, property taxes, water and sewer for irrigation, legal fees, property management services, and insurance.

Neighborhood watches in this area are coordinated under the police and sheriff's departments.
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this is a gated community so apparently they can afford one. since they opted for "free security" with no established rules or whatsoever.... now they have to deal with a possible costly litigation.

all it takes is a simple thorough background check and I'm sure they would never consider letting Zimmerman be the Neighborhood Watchdog. Like what his ex-coworker said, he's a liability.
 
Reba said:
That's different from our neighborhood. In our subdivision, the crime watch organizations are separate from the HOA. About 2/3 of our neighborhood is in the county, so they are under the sheriff's department. The other 1/3 of the neighborhood (newer section) is in the town limits, so it's under the police department's jurisdiction. The HOA doesn't control any of it.
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sounds very thorough.

shame that this association was lazy and loose with it. I don't think they knew Zimmerman had an arrest record and a troubled history of violence.
 
Jiro said:
sounds very thorough.

shame that this association was lazy and loose with it. I don't think they knew Zimmerman had an arrest record and a troubled history of violence.
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Some articles said that he was self-appointed meaning he was actually not a member. Right?
 
Jiro said:
this is a gated community so apparently they can afford one. since they opted for "free security" with no established rules or whatsoever.... now they have to deal with a possible costly litigation.
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That's a pretty big assumption...
 
I did hear that the HOA directed residents to call Zimmerman if they had any suspicions and didn't want to call the police (for whatever reasons). Whether or not that is for sure the case, I couldn't say with 100% certainty. It is what I heard though... Irresponsible on the part of the HOA.
 
Jiro said:
it's funny to see how "white people" get so sensitive and defensive when they get chided as racist in the mildest way. :lol:
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Wait, first you said you didn't chide anybody as racist at all. Now you did, but it was mild?

And aren't you the one who made the shocking admission that you are so comfortable with the idea of using a racial slur in anger that you were under the impression that *everybody* does it?

Nope, everybody does not do that. Apparently you do, or you wouldn't think 'everybody' does, right?

It's strange to see somebody so comfortable with using racial slurs just because you lose your temper thinking he has the moral high ground in a discussion involving race.
 
TXgolfer said:
Not exactly the 1%

Retreat at Twin Lakes, Engle Home Gated Community. Luxury Townhomes at pre construction prices in Sanford FLorida FL, near Lake Mary Florida, FL. Realtors, Realty, Property Listings, and Homes for Sale
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Their HOA fees cost more per month than we pay per year. I assume they get more services than we do for that fee.

Off course, we aren't a gated community, although we have an ornamental gate at the entrance. :giggle:

Is the gate at the Retreat manned 24/7 or is it an automated one? Does it keep out drive-thru traffic only, or does it also keep out pedestrians and bicycles?
 
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