Florida Neighborhood Watch

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Jiro, I can't quote you right now because I'm on my phone, but I disagree with your blanket statement that, "we have all said a racial epithet in anger." That is not accurate.

I found that a shocking claim as well. I have never used a racial epithet at all. Neither have any of my children, and I'm pretty sure my husband hasn't either.

If I have any friends who ever talk like that, they keep it a secret around me.

P.S. I just asked my husband. He's 50. He says he's sure he did sometime in school when he was hanging around with the wrong crowd, but never since he grew up. so maybe, over 30 yrs ago.
 
I'll ask you this - who is armed? who has to take a high road to avoid conflict at all cost? who has a higher responsibility in here?

I do not have an opinion yet on this case because I don't know what happened and I do not think we do, either.

But I do have an opinion on whether even a nosy person has the right to self defense.

Being armed is legal. Asking somebody a question is legal. I should not have to cower in my neighborhood and never ask a stranger what they are doing out of fear they might beat me up.

Your questions sound like somebody who would tell a rape victim, "You shouldn't have been in that neighborhood, you shouldn't have dressed like that."

I have a right to expect that I can ask a stranger, "What are you doing?" without being attacked, and I have that right whether I carry a gun or not.

He can tell me shut up and mind my own business. He can ignore me. He can refuse to answer. He can tell me lies. He can tell me what he's doing.He can call me names.

If he chooses to attack me and I defend myself, it is not my fault if he dies. Being asked a question is not reasonable grounds for assault.
 
I found that a shocking claim as well. I have never used a racial epithet at all. Neither have any of my children, and I'm pretty sure my husband hasn't either.

If I have any friends who ever talk like that, they keep it a secret around me.

P.S. I just asked my husband. He's 50. He says he's sure he did sometime in school when he was hanging around with the wrong crowd, but never since he grew up. so maybe, over 30 yrs ago.

Same here. I never done that. Nor my kids.
 
Is this still going on? I leave for two days to help a friend move to PA. Guess what is all over the news? More info about Trayvor Martin's suspensions at school. Oh well ...
 
Is this still going on? I leave for two days to help a friend move to PA. Guess what is all over the news? More info about Trayvor Martin's suspensions at school. Oh well ...

looks like it. and there are more troubling info about Zimmerman's past as a hyperventilating paranoid vigilante.
 
I do not have an opinion yet on this case because I don't know what happened and I do not think we do, either.

But I do have an opinion on whether even a nosy person has the right to self defense.

Being armed is legal. Asking somebody a question is legal. I should not have to cower in my neighborhood and never ask a stranger what they are doing out of fear they might beat me up.

Your questions sound like somebody who would tell a rape victim, "You shouldn't have been in that neighborhood, you shouldn't have dressed like that."

I have a right to expect that I can ask a stranger, "What are you doing?" without being attacked, and I have that right whether I carry a gun or not.

He can tell me shut up and mind my own business. He can ignore me. He can refuse to answer. He can tell me lies. He can tell me what he's doing.He can call me names.

If he chooses to attack me and I defend myself, it is not my fault if he dies. Being asked a question is not reasonable grounds for assault.
Unfortunately - the law disagrees with you since you willfully put yourself in that situation that has potential to escalate into hostile confrontation. By confronting that person, you're an aggressor and provocateur.

you perfectly have a right to ask a stranger - "what are you doing around here?" but you know very well that it can end either way. Once you knowingly put yourself in that potential hostile situation, you AUTOMATICALLY FORFEIT your rights to self-defense with deadly force.

why not confront that person without a gun? just because you carry a gun does not give you the rights to confront a person when there is an expectation of hostile escalation. why would you put yourself in that situation? because you feel powerful and safe with gun?

Do you know what's it called? Irresponsible Gun Owner. As an armed citizen, you are compelled to avoid ALL confliction. If you are suspicious of that person, then call 911 or non-emergency number or Neighborhood Watch number. All law enforcement agencies strongly advise citizens to NOT confront a suspicious person.

Again - by confronting a person yourself, you automatically forfeit your Stand Your Ground rights. That is the prime difference between you and police officer.

The Freedom Bulletin
It’s also wrong to demonize “Stand Your Ground” laws such as the one passed by the Florida legislature in 2005, giving people the right to use deadly force if they reasonably believe that their safety is threatened, whether they are in their homes or in public places where they have a right to be.

The Martin family’s lawyer criticized this law, saying, ”You can’t go pick a fight with somebody and then say, ‘Oh, self-defense.’” But that’s not what the law allows. CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin said, ”If you’re the first aggressor, if you are pursuing, you cannot avail yourself of this self-defense claim.” Florida Rep. Dennis Baxley said, “Nothing in Stand Your Ground’ authorizes (you) to pursue and confront.” And Governor Jeb Bush added, ”Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.”

Stand Your Ground laws give people the right to defend themselves with deadly force when someone aggresses against them, instead of having a duty to retreat. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you aggress against someone, you forfeit your rights, and no one should ever be punished for defending themselves against an aggressor.
 
In school, Zimmerman hinted at ambitions in the business world. He joined a Future Business Leaders of America club. And in his senior yearbook, he wrote: “I’m going to Florida to work with my godfather who just bought a $1 million business.”

In Florida, Zimmerman shifted his plans, enrolling in Seminole State College with hopes of becoming a law enforcement officer. He became the self-appointed protector of the streets around his home, although his neighborhood watch organization was not officially registered. He called the police department at least 46 times since 2004 to report everything from open garages to suspicious people. In 2005, according to police records obtained by the Orlando Sentinel and other news organizations, Zimmerman was twice accused of either criminal misconduct or violence. He had a concealed-weapon permit and had a black Kel-Tec semiautomatic handgun and a holster the night Martin died.

well well well.... that is indeed very troubling....

1. Zimmerman wanted to be a cop.
2. He "self-appointed" himself as Neighborhood Watch Captain.
3. He walks around with a gun on his belt and willfully puts himself in a potential hostile situation.
4. He ignored 911 dispatcher to not pursue him and take matters into his own hands.
5. He was twice accused of either criminal misconduct or violence.
6. He has 3 "closed" arrest records - resisting an officer without violence, resisting an officer with violence, and domestic violence.

That's a felony arrest so how is it that he was able to own a gun and receive a CCW permit? Ah yes..... his father was a former Orange County magistrate judge!

very troubling.....
 
Trayvon Martin's parents go to Capitol Hill
BBC News - Trayvon Martin's parents go to Capitol Hill

Homicide detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman after Trayvon's death but prosecutors said there was not enough evidence
Trayvon Martin case: Detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter | Mail Online

Trayvon Martin's mother accuses police of smearing his reputation
Trayvon Martin's mother accuses police of smearing his reputation - Telegraph

Florida Murders: Teen Told Friend 'I Did That'
Florida Murders: Shawn Tyson 'Told Friend He Shot British Tourists' | World News | Sky News

Supreme Court divided over health care mandate
Supreme Court divided over health care mandate - CNN.com

What happened right after Trayvon Martin's shooting?
What happened right after Trayvon Martin's shooting? - CBS News

New Orleans cop resigns after Trayvon comments
New Orleans cop resigns after Trayvon comments - CBS News

we will kept that story update
 
Again - by confronting a person yourself, you automatically forfeit your Stand Your Ground rights. That is the prime difference between you and police officer.
What if after a person asks a question and then walks back to the car alone, he/she gets attacked? Does that forfeit this person's Stand Your Ground rights?
 
What if after a person asks a question and then walks back to the car alone, he/she gets attacked? Does that forfeit this person's Stand Your Ground rights?

nobody wanted to answer my very simple question and I can see why - "when approaching a suspicious person, do you think it is possible that it can end badly?"

an answer to my question is an answer to your question.
 
George Zimmerman, Son of a Retired Judge, Has 3 Closed Arrests | Rolling Out - Black News, Celebrity Videos, Entertainment, Business & Politics
George Zimmerman had felony assault on police officer charge in ’05 & 2 domestic assaults

Last edited Sat Mar 24, 2012, 09:48 AM USA/ET – Edit history (2)
From the Orange County, FL Circuit Court Clerk of the Court Records page: [link to myclerk.myorangeclerk.com]
Record Count: 4
Search By: Party Exact Name: on Party Search Mode: Name Last Name: Zimmerman First Name: George Case Status: Closed Date Filed On or After: 01/01/2005 Date Filed On or Before: 01/01/2006 Sort By: Filed Date
Case Number Citation Number Style/Defendant Info Filed/Location/Judicial Officer Type/Status Charge(s)
2005-CF-009525-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983
07/18/2005
Div 10
OKane, Julie H
Criminal Felony
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE
BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER

2005-MM-010436-A-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL
10/05/1983
07/18/2005
Orlando
Miller, W Michael
Misdemeanor
Closed

CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITHOUT VIOLENCE
2005-DR-012980-O
ZUAZO, VERONICA vs. ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M
08/09/2005
Div 44
44, TBA

Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS
2005-DR-013069-O
ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE M vs. ZUAZO, VERONICA A
08/10/2005
Div 46
White, Keith F
Domestic Violence
Closed – SRS

extremely disturbing..... a paranoid man with a history of violence and felony arrests carrying a gun on his belt....
 
What if after a person asks a question and then walks back to the car alone, he/she gets attacked? Does that forfeit this person's Stand Your Ground rights?

I'm sure a person would not want to forfeits his/her own life by not protecting him/herself every which way possible, even if it means killing the attacker.
 
I'm sure a person would not want to forfeits his/her own life by not protecting him/herself every which way possible, even if it means killing the attacker.

every which way possible? very simple. don't approach him. don't get involved. did that ever occur to you? you're not a cop and you should leave it to the professionals to do their jobs. the law does not give you a legal protection for defending yourself with a gun AFTER confronting a person. It's other way around.

You RETAIN your right to stand your ground AFTER a person confronts you.
You FORFEIT your right to stand your ground AFTER you confront a person.

very very very simple.

that's why a homicide detective didn't buy Zimmerman's story since Zimmerman's life was never in danger at the time when he called 911 and decided to pursue him against 911 dispatcher's advisement.

Trayvon Martin case: Detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter | Mail Online
Chris Serino, an investigator with the Sanford, Florida, Police Department, believed Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter for shooting the 17-year-old in a gated community in Sanford, Florida, according to reports.

...

He says after Trayvon knocked Zimmerman to the ground, breaking his nose, the teen jumped on top of him and bashed his head against the sidewalk several times, according to an account that was leaked to the Orlando Sentinel.

But apparently Mr Serino didn't entirely buy Zimmerman's version of events.

...

One likely source of the state attorney's reluctance to charge Zimmerman is the controversial Stand Your Ground law in Florida, which allows anyone to use deadly force to defend themselves if they have a reasonable belief that they are about to be killed or severely injured.

'The Stand Your Ground law is one portion of justifiable use of deadly force,' top prosecutor Angela Corey told ABC News.

'And what that means is that the state must go forward and be able to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt... So it makes the case in general more difficult than a normal criminal case.'

of course.... nobody can dispute Zimmerman's account because the only witness was dead! and unfortunately... since he already called 911 to report a suspicious person and was never in danger at that time, he automatically forfeited his right to stand his ground by pursuing him.
 
every which way possible? very simple. don't approach him. don't get involved. did that ever occur to you? you're not a cop and you should leave it to the professionals to do their jobs. the law does not give you a legal protection for defending yourself with a gun AFTER confronting a person. It's other way around.

You RETAIN your right to stand your ground AFTER a person confronts you.
You FORFEIT your right to stand your ground AFTER you confront a person.

very very very simple.

that's why a homicide detective didn't buy Zimmerman's story since Zimmerman's life was never in danger at the time when he called 911 and decided to pursue him against 911 dispatcher's advisement.

Trayvon Martin case: Detective wanted to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter | Mail Online


of course.... nobody can dispute Zimmerman's account because the only witness was dead! and unfortunately... since he already called 911 to report a suspicious person and was never in danger at that time, he automatically forfeited his right to stand his ground by pursuing him.

I think you are getting stuck on the one statute. Of course the law allows you to defend yourself if someone starts beating on you....even if you asked them a few questions first. :lol:

Even if John's account is accurate, it does not necessarily mean Zimmerman was justified in shooting Martin. But it suggests that the right to "stand your ground" protected by Florida's much-maligned self-defense law, which critics have blamed for the Sanford Police Department's decision not to arrest Zimmerman, may be irrelevant in this case. If Martin tackled Zimmerman, who as a result feared serious injury or death (perhaps because he believed Martin was about to grab his gun), the "duty to retreat" that was eliminated by Florida's law would not apply because Zimmerman would not have had an opportunity to escape. In fact, Zimmerman's lawyer says he does not plan to invoke the "stand your ground" principle.

Under Florida law, even if Zimmerman were deemed the aggressor (since he apparently provoked the fight by following Martin against the advice of a police dispatcher), he could still argue self-defense if he claimed the force used against him was so great that he reasonably believed that he was "in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm" and that he had "exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger." He also might argue, although it does not seem to apply in this case, that he had withdrawn from physical contact with Martin and clearly indicated he did not wish to fight, after which Martin nevertheless continued or resumed the use of force. But neither argument hinges on the right to "stand your ground" when attacked in a public place.

'Stand Your Ground' May Have Nothing to Do With the Trayvon Martin Case - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

But if you end up being right I am going to start beating mall cops every time they ask me a question. Yay Free pass!

Mall Cop: Finding everything okay today?

Me: *Right , left, right* Don't even think about gettin' up son....You have a gun and asked me a question so you done forfeited your right to strike back.

Pretty silly huh?
 
I think you are getting stuck on the one statute. Of course the law allows you to defend yourself if someone starts beating on you....even if you asked them a few questions first. :lol:

'Stand Your Ground' May Have Nothing to Do With the Trayvon Martin Case - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

But if you end up being right I am going to start beating mall cops every time they ask me a question. Yay Free pass!

Mall Cop: Finding everything okay today?

Me: *Right , left, right* Don't even think about gettin' up son....You have a gun and asked me a question so you done forfeited your right to strike back.

Pretty silly huh?

Yes, absolutely silly. There is such a thing as self defense. You value your own life, you do whatever necessary to protect yourself if you find yourself suddenly attacked. Not going to lay there like a limp, wet noodle and get a lashing. Duh.
 
Yes, absolutely silly. There is such a thing as self defense. You value your own life, you do whatever necessary to protect yourself if you find yourself suddenly attacked. Not going to lay there like a limp, wet noodle and get a lashing. Duh.

if you value your life very much, then why put yourself in a potential hostile situation?
 
I have been thinking what would happen if Zimmerman had no gun. I bet that he would be beaten up to death. Did he ask for it? Fucking no! If that actually happened, Trayvon would get a death penalty. Thank God for Stand Your Ground law.
 
I think you are getting stuck on the one statute.
there are actually few more statutes but I'll start with this one -
776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Of course the law allows you to defend yourself if someone starts beating on you....even if you asked them a few questions first. :lol:
wanna try to answer my question? :lol:

"when approaching a suspicious person, do you think it is possible that it can end badly?"

'Stand Your Ground' May Have Nothing to Do With the Trayvon Martin Case - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

But if you end up being right I am going to start beating mall cops every time they ask me a question. Yay Free pass!

Mall Cop: Finding everything okay today?

Me: *Right , left, right* Don't even think about gettin' up son....You have a gun and asked me a question so you done forfeited your right to strike back.

Pretty silly huh?
3 fallacies in your argument -

1. mall cops are easily identifiable with badges/insignia and uniforms. are you?
2. armed mall cops? NJ-NY are basically USA Capital of Malls :lol: and I've never seen armed mall cops but either way - if they're armed, they're most likely have been authorized and trained by law enforcement agencies and/or are either former or off-duty police officers.
3. you are very confused. Rights to self-defense and Rights to self-defense with deadly force are 2 two completely different things and both has completely different legal criteria.

any further question?
 
I have been thinking what would happen if Zimmerman had no gun. I bet that he would be beaten up to death. Did he ask for it? Fucking no!

then Trayvon would be charged with manslaughter.

but then... gun or not, was it completely preventable if Zimmerman listened to 911 dispatcher and let the professionals handle it?
 
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