"Fixing" the child or not?

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Can we stay ontopic about the concept of surgery rather than debating about whither or not parents have the right to make medical choices?

 

[faire_jour]

Exactly. I have never seen a better illustration of the hearing refusing to give credibility to the deaf/Deaf perspective, refusal to even attempt to see things from a perspective other than their own hearing perspective, and so much defensiveness at the root of it than this thread. And all based on semantics. And then the hearing wonder why the deaf get annoyed.:roll:

Talk about a breakdown in communication! And English is being used across the board!

But the Deaf people are saying that hearing parents are trying to fix their deaf children by giving them CI's. The hearing parents say "No, we are not. Here are the reasons we decided to give them implants...." Then the response is still "Nope, you are trying to fix them." Why aren't our reasons and intentions accepted? We are here and being honest. Our points are being ignored and we are being told that we are other motives. Why?

 

[yizuman]

Wirelessly posted

Can we stay ontopic about the concept of surgery rather than debating about whither or not parents have the right to make medical choices?

Oh so you're ignoring the child altogether? Never mind that the child is a human being?

Yiz

 

[yizuman]

But the Deaf people are saying that hearing parents are trying to fix their deaf children by giving them CI's. The hearing parents say "No, we are not. Here are the reasons we decided to give them implants...." Then the response is still "Nope, you are trying to fix them." Why aren't our reasons and intentions accepted? We are here and being honest. Our points are being ignored and we are being told that we are other motives. Why?

I hate those double talks, "No, but...." :roll:

Yiz

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Not ignoring it.

Just we debate about parental choices on every single CI thread already.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted

Can we stay ontopic about the concept of surgery rather than debating about whither or not parents have the right to make medical choices?

Absolutely. The fact that parents have the right to make those choices is a non-issue.

 

[faire_jour]

I hate those double talks, "No, but...." :roll:

Yiz

It's not double talk. I will be perfectly clear:

I did not implant my child to fix her. I wanted to give her access to sound and if possible, spoken language. She could not access those things with hearing aids so I gave her an implant.

 

[jillio]

But the Deaf people are saying that hearing parents are trying to fix their deaf children by giving them CI's. The hearing parents say "No, we are not. Here are the reasons we decided to give them implants...." Then the response is still "Nope, you are trying to fix them." Why aren't our reasons and intentions accepted? We are here and being honest. Our points are being ignored and we are being told that we are other motives. Why?

Now you get it. You are not listening to what the deaf people are saying. You are taking from it what you want to take from it given your own perspective and reactions. You are so intent on asserting your rights that you are shutting out the intent and the meaning of the discussion. This post is but another example of that.

 

[jillio]

It's not double talk. I will be perfectly clear:

I did not implant my child to fix her. I wanted to give her access to sound and if possible, spoken language. She could not access those things with hearing aids so I gave her an implant.

So, you were fixing the fact that she did not have access to sound. You saw that as a problem. Many, many deaf do not see that as a problem that needs to be corrected surgically.

 

[GrendelQ]

You should not implant a child until he/she becomes an legal adult to decide for themselves if they want the procedure.

Can you not see that this statement is as offensive to me as if I were to say "you should implant every deaf child with a CI at 6 months" ? Neither of us should be telling the other what they should do. I know what's best for my child, you know what's best for yours.

The only person who has a right to tell us how to raise our child is my mother-in-law .

 

[Bottesini]

It's not double talk. I will be perfectly clear:

I did not implant my child to fix her. I wanted to give her access to sound and if possible, spoken language. She could not access those things with hearing aids so I gave her an implant.

Well, that really is fixing the characteristics that comprise deafness.

So you want her to hear and speak.

That should not be upsetting to you if people say you are doing what you yourself just said you wanted to do.

 

[GrendelQ]

So, you were fixing the fact that she did not have access to sound. You saw that as a problem. Many, many deaf do not see that as a problem.

My child does not have access to ASL. I saw that as a problem. By your logic I fixed her by sending her to a school for the deaf.

 

[Frisky Feline]

Wirelessly posted

Can we stay ontopic about the concept of surgery rather than debating about whither or not parents have the right to make medical choices?

Absolutely. The fact that parents have the right to make those choices is a non-issue.

Thanks! yeah.

Yeah I don't care what the parents decision to chose for their kids. Its their babies, not mine. I hope the parents make wise how to deal with their babies about CI for themselve rather than giving unreasonable talks to others who have no CI. Back to that subject, yeah surgery is just like a fix. I understand some hearing people's view is to add the benfit but the add is another word is fix too. :|

Like I accepted that DR fixed something on my body twice in the past.

 

[jillio]

Well, that really is fixing the characteristics that comprise deafness.

So you want her to hear and speak.

That should not be upsetting to you if people say you are doing what you yourself just said you wanted to do.

There you go.

 

[faire_jour]

Well, that really is fixing the characteristics that comprise deafness.

So you want her to hear and speak.

That should not be upsetting to you if people say you are doing what you yourself just said you wanted to do.

But, to me, she is, and always will be deaf. That is impossible to fix, and doesn't need to be fixed. It is a part of who she is and is part of why she is the wonderful girl she is.

I don't want to take away her deafness, I don't want to make her hearing. I want to give her every tool that could help her in her life. If she chooses to live her life in a way that does not include sound, that is fabulous! That is why I have also made sure that she has that option. If I had not given her the CI I would not have given her the option to listen and speak, I was not ok not giving her all the choices I could.

 

[jillio]

My child does not have access to ASL. I saw that as a problem. By your logic I fixed her by sending her to a school for the deaf.

You fixed the consequences of deafness as in needing to communicate in a different way. That is a natural adaptation, and learning to live with the deafness. But, yes, it is fixing the situation. I fixed my own son in this way.

However, there is a huge difference between fixing a situation by natural means, thus allowing that child to live with the deafness, and surgical intervention that corrects in such a way as to work against the deafness.

 

[yizuman]

It's not double talk. I will be perfectly clear:

I did not implant my child to fix her. I wanted to give her access to sound and if possible, spoken language. She could not access those things with hearing aids so I gave her an implant.

So when you first found out the child is deaf, what was the first feeling you felt upon learning that?

Felt sorry for her? Pity? The world came crashing down and it's gonna end?

There's nothing wrong with being deaf, the child can do anything he/she wants, except hear.

What part of that does anyone not understand?

Yiz

 

[jillio]

But, to me, she is, and always will be deaf. That is impossible to fix, and doesn't need to be fixed. It is a part of who she is and is part of why she is the wonderful girl she is.

I don't want to take away her deafness, I don't want to make her hearing. I want to give her every tool that could help her in her life. If she chooses to live her life in a way that does not include sound, that is fabulous! That is why I have also made sure that she has that option. If I had not given her the CI I would not have given her the option to listen and speak, I was not ok not giving her all the choices I could.

But adding a surgical devise to create sound is taking away the deafness.:roll:

So what you are essentially saying is that you don't want to take away her deafness, you just want to minimize it as much as possible so she perceives more like a hearing person. Some sound is better than no sound.

And you still don't see why the deaf/Deaf find that insulting.

 

[faire_jour]

So when you first found out the child is deaf, what was the first feeling you felt upon learning that?

Felt sorry for her? Pity? The world came crashing down and it's gonna end?

There's nothing wrong with being deaf, the child can do anything he/she wants, except hear.

What part of that does anyone not understand?

Yiz

I didn't feel those things at all. I realized that it made perfect sense. It explained all the things we had been seeing. We increased our learning of ASL, sought out the Deaf community and looked for support for ASL using kids (signing playgroups, Deaf church, babysitters, etc)

Yes, my daughter can do anything she wants. (including hear)

 

[faire_jour]

But adding a surgical devise to create sound is taking away the deafness.:roll:

So what you are essentially saying is that you don't want to take away her deafness, you just want to minimize it as much as possible so she perceives more like a hearing person. Some sound is better than no sound.

And you still don't see why the deaf/Deaf find that insulting.

Are you saying that kids with CI's aren't deaf?