"Fixing" the child or not?

faire_jour said:
But Shel, do you see that parents are saying over and over that we are not trying to fix our kids? That was never our intention.
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No, iam not saying it is the parents who are saying. It is how we view the surgery itself. That surgery has a purpose to fix something.
 
shel90 said:
No, iam not saying it is the parents who are saying. It is how we view the surgery itself. That surgery has a purpose to fix something.
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Exactly. She is refusing to see the fact that CI is an invasive surgery. And that has to be taken into account when looking at the perspective.
 
shel90 said:
No, iam not saying it is the parents who are saying. It is how we view the surgery itself. That surgery has a purpose to fix something.
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So you understand that parents are not trying to fix their children? You understand why we make our choices and our perspective?
 
faire_jour said:
So you understand that parents are not trying to fix their children? You understand why we make our choices and our perspective?
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The question is, do you understand the perspective of the deaf? This post would lead one to believe that you don't.
 
jillio said:
The question is, do you understand the perspective of the deaf? This post would lead one to believe that you don't.
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That was directed at Shel, not you. You understand the parent's perspective and choose to ignore it. I'm asking if she understands.
 
GrendelQ said:
It seems that some on this board think that a CI is a fix for deafness and that surgery "fixes" a child -- a concept I strongly disagree with for the reasons I've put forward much earlier in this conversation. This makes me think that you (those who think Li-Li is "fixed") consider her a broken object to begin with and now a 'working model'.

Aren't you very much disrespecting my deaf child by framing the discussion as if he or she is a broken object?
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Don't you realize that's exactly why CI is offensive to a lot of Deaf people? Because giving a Deaf person CI feels like "fixing a broken object." That's how the CI makes a lot of Deaf people feel, in their gut. But who's going through with it? That's what's even more offensive to a lot of Deaf people. That some deaf, and some hearing parents of deaf children, not only feel like they or their child is broken, but actually go through a complex surgical procedure to fix their "broken" child.
 
souggy said:
Wirelessly posted

If you really want to debate about the word "fixed," the suffixes make a big difference.

"-ed" implies it's over and done with.

I would say my glasses fixes my vision, but I wouldn't say it's fixed.
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Most I read is "Stop TRYING to fix" meaning don't make them something they are not. They know CI is not perfect. accept them as they are, and don't focus on perfection (hearing and speech). I don't think they think CI fix/cure deafness. But some hearing people do.
 
faire_jour said:
So you understand that parents are not trying to fix their children? You understand why we make our choices and our perspective?
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A lot of people understand on the intellectual level the motives of CI users/parents of CI users aren't to fix themselves or fix their child. But that doesn't change that on the gut level, it still feels like a lot of pro-CI'ers are trying to turn "Deaf" people into "hearing." That's the problem with both sides. Even if they get it on one level, it still feels like a personal attack on a deeper level.
 
I don't think it matters much if one understands it. Most people can understand from other people's perspectives. I think it's a matter of "who knows better".

Sorta like "I understand why kids believe in ghosts, but I know better."

Not directing it anyone in particular.
 
faire_jour said:
That was directed at Shel, not you. You understand the parent's perspective and choose to ignore it. I'm asking if she understands.
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I don't ignore it at all. If I were ignoring it I would not spend time advocating to correct it and promote the deaf perspective.

And, of course shel understands.

That still doesn't answer the pertinent question and the one being addressed essentially, in the OP. Do you understand the deaf perspective?
 
The parents' are entitled to their view and so does the Deaf community. If we see something like CI surgery is a procedure to fix something, then why r we getting told we are wrong or insulting people? It is just how CI surgery are viewed and a majority of society sees deafness as broken ears when the Deaf community doesn't see it that way.

Nobody is putting any blame on anyone nor telling what parents should think ..just trying to get people to understand why we use that terminology.
 
A said:
I don't think any deaf have every said "Don't fix deafness" I don't think they see it that way. Most I read is "Stop TRYING to fix" meaning don't make them something they are not. They know CI is not perfect. accept them as they are, and don't focus on perfection (hearing and speech).
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That's it in a nutshell.
 
jillio said:
I don't ignore it at all. If I were ignoring it I would not spend time advocating to correct it and promote the deaf perspective.

And, of course shel understands.

That still doesn't answer the pertinent question and the one being addressed essentially, in the OP. Do you understand the deaf perspective?
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I'll let her answer me instead of you jumping in and telling me what she knows.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I don't think it matters much if one understands it. Most people can understand from other people's perspectives. I think it's a matter of "who knows better".

Sorta like "I understand why kids believe in ghosts, but I know better."

Not directing it anyone in particular.
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Well, actually more of a case of giving both equal validity.
 
shel90 said:
No, iam not saying it is the parents who are saying. It is how we view the surgery itself. That surgery has a purpose to fix something.
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Daredevel7 said:
I don't think it matters much if one understands it. Most people can understand from other people's perspectives. I think it's a matter of "who knows better".

Sorta like "I understand why kids believe in ghosts, but I know better."

Not directing it anyone in particular.
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yeah that's a good example. ha
 
I see that someone took it too personally with shel especially. Shel gave plenty of examples without offensive.
 
A response that demonstrates understanding would be "I see what the deaf are saying, and they have a very valid point and a right to that position."

Saying over and over, "That's not what I'm doing, that's not what I'm doing, that's not what I'm doing" is just giving the message to the deaf that they are wrong, and you are right. Just keeps that old divide getting wider and wider.
 
Frisky Feline said:
I see that someone took it too personally with shel especially. Shel gave plenty of examples without offensive.
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I don't think anyone took anything Shel said personally. I hope you were not refering to me. I think that Shel is the most understanding person on the thread and I was trying to have a real converation, where both people were listening to each other, and that is why I was directing my post to Shel. Because I believe she is actually willing to listen.
 
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