"Fixing" the child or not?

[shel90]

But why don't you accept that it isn't what parents are doing?!?! We keep telling you that we are NOT trying to fix our kids, and people keep saying "Yes youare." We know our choices and our intentions, why do you refuse to hear us?

Just having a different point of view...u dont see it that way but does that mean those in the Deaf community who see it that way are wrong?

 

[CJB]

But why don't you accept that it isn't what parents are doing?!?! We keep telling you that we are NOT trying to fix our kids, and people keep saying "Yes youare." We know our choices and our intentions, why do you refuse to hear us?

Just want to point out...

are we talking about a CI fixing deafness or a CI person fixing a Deaf person?

To say the first is to state a fact. To say the second is to assume motivations.

 

[faire_jour]

Just having a different point of view...u dont see it that way but does that mean those in the Deaf community who see it that way are wrong?

If they think a CI is fixing their deafness, and they get it, then it is their judgement to make. If it is MY child and MY decision, it is MY intent that matters.

 

[faire_jour]

Just want to point out...

are we talking about a CI fixing deafness or a CI person fixing a Deaf person?

To say the first is to state a fact. To say the second is to assume motivations.

The thread is called "fixing the child" not "fixing the child's hearing loss".

 

[shel90]

If they think a CI is fixing their deafness, and they get it, then it is their judgement to make. If it is MY child and MY decision, it is MY intent that matters.

But you asked why the Deaf community said "Stop fixing us with CIs" and I answered ..and somehow it got to be about your child. This is not what the thread is about...

 

[GrendelQ]

No, it is not...

it is how people told the Deaf community that they are wrong when they say that CIs are fixing the children but when they really arent because surgery involves fixing or correcting a medical problem.

Maybe it's just that we're all trying to interpret what the other is thinking -- and we're getting it wrong. And maybe we all agree, but there are others out there who have a different perspective that none of us like.

So, you know my view: I don't think CI surgery "fixes" my child or her hearing, because she remains deaf, the hair cells in her cochlea don't transmit sound in the form of electrical signals to her auditory nerve, her cochlea hasn't been replaced or repaired. And I didn't and don't have any expectation such a repair would take place.

Do you think differently -- that CI surgery is a fix for deafness, that Li-Li and Miss Kat and every child with a working CI has been fixed and are no longer deaf?

 

[faire_jour]

But you asked why the Deaf community said "Stop fixing us with CIs" and I answered ..and somehow it got to be about your child. This is not what the thread is about...

No one is forcing them to get a CI!!!!! How is anyone fixing them??!?!?!?!!?!?

 

[GrendelQ]

But I'm not defending what those people are saying! If a hearing person tells you that you must have a CI to be successful, they are an ass.

Yes, exactly.

 

[shel90]

Maybe it's just that we're all trying to interpret what the other is thinking -- and we're getting it wrong. And maybe we all agree, but there are others out there who have a different perspective that none of us like.

So, you know my view: I don't think CI surgery "fixes" my child or her hearing, because she remains deaf, the hair cells in her cochlea don't transmit sound in the form of electrical signals to her auditory nerve, her cochlea hasn't been replaced or repaired. And I didn't and don't have any expectation such a repair would take place.

Do you think differently -- that CI surgery is a fix for deafness, that Li-Li and Miss Kat and every child with a working CI has been fixed and are no longer deaf?[/QUOTE]

It is interesting that you say that because there were some other former ADers who were parents of deaf children with CIs who have repeatly told several of us that their children arent deaf and that they are hearing. Then arguments erupted how that the children were still deaf but they said that they are no longer deaf because they can hear now.

See how the message becomes confusing for both communities and how people get upset?

So, we probably just have to stop taking everyone's stories or views at face value...like the hearing society needs to stop taking CI stories at face value and try to pressure or judge those who dont have CIs as trying not to "improve" themselves.

Just my two cents

 

[CJB]

No one is forcing them to get a CI!!!!! How is anyone fixing them??!?!?!?!!?!?

When people say "stop trying to fix us" they're saying "us, deaf people." Unless you're implanting a CI on a hearing person for some reason, then you are indeed fixing a "deaf person", who happens to be part of "deaf people". (General "you" not faire_jour "you.)

 

[shel90]

No one is forcing them to get a CI!!!!! How is anyone fixing them??!?!?!?!!?!?

I guess it is hard to explain when you dont know what it is like to be told by different hearing people on different occassions on why we wont get CIs and get looks of disgust constantly. Also, what happens if potential employers start discriminating against those who dont have CIs because of their ignorant views of CIs as a "cure"?

 

[faire_jour]

When people say "stop trying to fix us" they're saying "us, deaf people." Unless you're implanting a CI on a hearing person for some reason, then you are indeed fixing a "deaf person", who happens to be part of "deaf people". (General "you" not faire_jour "you.)

So then they are saying that I do not have the right to make the choice for my child, right?

 

[A]

When people say "stop trying to fix us" they're saying "us, deaf people." Unless you're implanting a CI on a hearing person for some reason, then you are indeed fixing a "deaf person", who happens to be part of "deaf people". (General "you" not faire_jour "you.)

And sometimes they do it because they want people to know there is NOTHING wrong with being deaf.

 

[shel90]

So then they are saying that I do not have the right to make the choice for my child, right?

No, I think it is all about telling general society while there are deaf people who are successful with CIs, there are still many of us who dont have CIs and who havent been successful with them who deserve equal treatment and respect.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[faire_jour]

No, I think it is all about telling general society while there are deaf people who are successful with CIs, there are still many of us who dont have CIs and who havent been successful with them who deserve equal treatment and respect.

Hope that makes sense?

I hope that is true. If it is, then they should say that.

My concern is over the people who are trying to actively take away a parent's choice. They are Deaf people who are so strongly against CI's that they are trying to end childhood implantation. That is what I hear when someone yells "Stop trying to fix us".

 

[shel90]

I hope that is true. If it is, then they should say that.

My concern is over the people who are trying to actively take away a parent's choice. They are Deaf people who are so strongly against CI's that they are trying to end childhood implantation. That is what I hear when someone yells "Stop trying to fix us".

Maybe think that way when they say "Stop trying to fix them" them being the children?

I really honestly feel that it is about society's mistreatment towards many of us who dont act "hearing". Now, with the CIs gaining attention, many of us are starting to encounter prejudice and getting treated even worse than a 2nd class citizen simply because we dont have CIs.

I know that if I say "Stop trying to fix us" that would be MY meaning.

 

[CJB]

So then they are saying that I do not have the right to make the choice for my child, right?

It's an opinion. A feeling. How is that getting in the way of your rights? They haven't passed legislation (and I doubt they'd ever be able to given the uneducated hearing majority that would probably vote in favor of childhood implantation), they're voicing their opinion. Doesn't stop you from being able to implant your child.

 

[GrendelQ]

Shel, I remember some of the heated discussions on several deafread-linked blogs you were referring to, but wouldn't be able to recreate those statements verbatim. There were people who felt that their choice was not only right for them and their children, but they had a very narrow and passionate view that they were the only viable options for all deaf children.

I was interested in, respected, and in some cases admired their choices for their children as being just right for their situations -- they had happy, healthy children to show for it. But when I stated our intentions to pursue a bi-bi approach instead - ouch. I was bombarded with arguments telling me what I should do and what was best from a very small but vocal set of parents, and it got pretty heated. FJ, I can't recall for certain, but think you took a whole lot of crap as well at that time. So, I'm not saying there aren't people out there who evangelize their approach in a very aggressive manner. But I don't agree with telling others how to raise their children.

Turning the tables, though, I also don't agree with individuals who proselytize an anti-CI message. They have every right to say what they decided and give their reasons and talk about why it has benefited their children. Just as do pro-CI parents. But it becomes offensive when they turn a decision for themselves into a judgment of my choices and say that my choice is wrong.

So if you say: I would never get a CI, or I would not choose to get one for my child, I would nod and understand that as your choice. But if you say either 'you should not implant your child' or 'parents should not implant deaf children', that's as wrong as someone saying "you should implant your child/ get a CI" or "deaf people should get CIs."

 

[shel90]

Shel, I remember some of the heated discussions on several deafread-linked blogs you were referring to, but wouldn't be able to recreate those statements verbatim. But I remember feeling that there were people who felt that their choice was not only right for them and their children, but they had a very narrow and passionate view that were the only viable options for all deaf children.

I was interested in, respected, and in some cases admired their choices for their children as being just right for their situations -- they had happy, healthy children to show for it. But when I stated our intentions to pursue a bi-bi approach instead - ouch. I was bombarded with arguments telling me what I should do and what was best from a very small but vocal set of parents, and it got pretty heated. FJ, I can't recall for certain, but think you took a whole lot of crap as well at that time. So, I'm not saying their aren't people out there who evangelize their approach in a very aggressive manner. But I don't agree with telling others how to raise their children.

Turning the tables, though, I also don't agree with individuals who proselytize an anti-CI message. They have every right to say what they decided and give their reasons and talk about why it has benefited their children. Just as do pro-CI parents. But it becomes offensive when they turn a decision for themselves into a judgment of my choices and say that my choice is wrong.

So if you say: I would never get a CI, or I would not choose to get one for my child, I would nod and understand that as your choice. But if you say either 'you should not implant your child' or 'parents should not implant deaf children', that's as wrong as someone saying "you should implant your child/ get a CI" or "deaf people should get CIs."

I think we got the message straightened out...


See my posts #215 and #189

 

[GrendelQ]

No, I think it is all about telling general society while there are deaf people who are successful with CIs, there are still many of us who dont have CIs and who havent been successful with them who deserve equal treatment and respect.

I like how you put that.