"Fixing" the child or not?

faire_jour said:
The thread is called "fixing the child" not "fixing the child's hearing loss".
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Thread is about "fixing" the hearing loss that the child had to endured by having the CI put inside of her or his head where the cochlear is. You care more about your daughter's hearing loss and want to proclaimed that she can hear plus listening to the words which mean she can pick up the words that she understand. That make her hard of hearing or mild hearing loss. And here you had said earlier that she is DEAF which mean she can not hear sound or pick up a word at all.

Don't make any judgement on us because you have never experience being deaf or lose a hearing loss. When you get older like my mother who had lost her hearing years ago, someone will ask you if you want to wear hearing aid or CI?. You will say "No, heck, I won't wear hearing aid or CI." It send the whole reality letting you know that you may not hear sounds or conversations that you have trouble hearing. My mother does not want to wear hearing aid or any devices that might help her hear because she was hearing. My mother had to make me wear hearing aid when I was 9 years old. It was force. It was never ask me if I want to wear hearing aid or not. That is why I don't like mainstream school trying to force me to use spoken language and not have any ASL and ASL interpreters in the classroom. It just make me upset back then. :(
 
Bebonang said:
That make her hard of hearing or mild hearing loss. And here you had said earlier that she is DEAF which mean she can not hear sound or pick up a word at all.
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Wearing a hearing aid or CI processor may give you access to sound while you have it on your head, but do you think that makes a person no longer deaf? Even if that tenuous link to sound is only a dead battery or a shifted hat away from breaking?
 
GrendelQ said:
Shel, I remember some of the heated discussions on several deafread-linked blogs you were referring to, but wouldn't be able to recreate those statements verbatim. There were people who felt that their choice was not only right for them and their children, but they had a very narrow and passionate view that they were the only viable options for all deaf children.

I was interested in, respected, and in some cases admired their choices for their children as being just right for their situations -- they had happy, healthy children to show for it. But when I stated our intentions to pursue a bi-bi approach instead - ouch. I was bombarded with arguments telling me what I should do and what was best from a very small but vocal set of parents, and it got pretty heated. FJ, I can't recall for certain, but think you took a whole lot of crap as well at that time. So, I'm not saying there aren't people out there who evangelize their approach in a very aggressive manner. But I don't agree with telling others how to raise their children.

Turning the tables, though, I also don't agree with individuals who proselytize an anti-CI message. They have every right to say what they decided and give their reasons and talk about why it has benefited their children. Just as do pro-CI parents. But it becomes offensive when they turn a decision for themselves into a judgment of my choices and say that my choice is wrong.

So if you say: I would never get a CI, or I would not choose to get one for my child, I would nod and understand that as your choice. But if you say either 'you should not implant your child' or 'parents should not implant deaf children', that's as wrong as someone saying "you should implant your child/ get a CI" or "deaf people should get CIs."
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Yep and yep.

We were told some nasty things by both sides.

And I completely agree with the second part.
 
GrendelQ said:
Wearing a hearing aid or CI processor may give you access to sound while you have it on your head, but do you think that makes a person no longer deaf? Even if that tenuous link to sound is only a dead battery or a shifted hat away from breaking?
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Shifted hat takes you from "hearing" to deaf :laugh2:

Not to mention jumping too hard, laying your head down, a misplaced ponytail or a strong gust of wind :laugh2:
 
all i see is that we all know where we stand and respect each of us with our opinions about CI.

The bottom line is that my major concern is small kids with ci users. hopefully when they get older and understand who they are and do not give nasty attitudes about ASL, deaf culture and deaf community if they feel that they are not part of these deaf community. Nothing more.
 
I think the problem is that when people say "fix" they say it in the sense as a cure. However, I see "fix" to mean as an enhancement, an adjustment, an improvement or even a positive change depending on the context.
 
Frisky Feline said:
all i see is that we all know where we stand and respect each of us with our opinions about CI.

The bottom line is that my major concern is small kids with ci users. hopefully when they get older and understand who they are and do not give nasty attitudes about ASL, deaf culture and deaf community if they feel that they are not part of these deaf community. Nothing more.
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Agreed! It's going to be a tough day for someone if I ever catch wind that my daughter is being disrespected because she's deaf. My husband wants Li-Li to learn martial arts so she can kick some serious peace, love and understanding into somebody who discriminates against her or puts her down :whip:.
 
GrendelQ said:
Agreed! It's going to be a tough day for someone if I ever catch wind that my daughter is being disrespected because she's deaf. My husband wants Li-Li to learn martial arts so she can kick some serious peace, love and understanding into somebody who discriminates against her or puts her down :whip:.
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:gpost: :gpost:
 
In my opinion, it's not "fixing" the child... I was NOT fixing my son, just giving him another set of tools. At the end of the day, he's still deaf and will always be a deaf child. Futhermore, the implant is not a "cure" or a "fix", it's just an assisitive device- it does not and cannot replace hearing.
 
doubletrouble said:
In my opinion, it's not "fixing" the child... I was NOT fixing my son, just giving him another set of tools. At the end of the day, he's still deaf and will always be a deaf child. Futhermore, the implant is not a "cure" or a "fix", it's just an assisitive device- it does not and cannot replace hearing.
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That is true, but why surgery? If the child later don't want the implant, then there is no way to remove the CI device from it. He will be stuck with it for the rest of his life unless the surgeon can remove it (don't forget the cost of removing the device) and just let him be natural unless he want to get fit with the hearing aids. Hearing aids is a set of tools too and not require to have surgery. Right? :hmm:
 
No, because if he didn't have the operation, I have already made the decision for him. He could always take it off later, and hearing aids will not help a profound child like mine. And why surgery? Because it's the only way that the implant will work. I have already discussed with my son when the totally implantable implants become available, would he want it? His answer- NO, I like to hear and be deaf too. I have peace when I want it and I can hear when I want to . I have the best of both worlds. To me, that's a good enough answer,.
 
doubletrouble said:
No, because if he didn't have the operation, I have already made the decision for him. He could always take it off later, and hearing aids will not help a profound child like mine. And why surgery? Because it's the only way that the implant will work. I have already discussed with my son when the totally implantable implants become available, would he want it? His answer- NO, I like to hear and be deaf too. I have peace when I want it and I can hear when I want to . I have the best of both worlds. To me, that's a good enough answer,.
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That is the best comment that I want to hear. :applause: That is exactly what hearing parents need to listen to their child or children when it comes to surgery. Not force. Bravo!!!!
 
shel90 said:
II was telling my husband about that and he looked at me with a confused expression and told me that it is fixing the children. I said that to some people it is not then he raised a very good question...


"Then what is the surgery for, then?"

Surgery has always been for the purpose of fixing something...a broken bone, broken tooth, removing foreign objects in the body, and etc.

So, if a CI surgery isn't fixing the child, then why the surgery? Should it be named something else rather than "surgery"?

.....
The more I think about it, the more I have to agree with the Deaf community and my husband.
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The more I read about your husband, the more I like him!
 
shel90 said:
People have bashed the Deaf community for using that term and said that they are wrong and that they aren't fixing their child but when in reality, surgery is about fixing something so...is the Deaf community wrong for using that word?
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No, because it is how the Deaf people perceive it and feel.
 
Tousi said:
I think it depends on the attitude of the person using that word. I think inventors of medical things begin from a position of altruism......then the big money takes over...and none of those folks have one iota of an idea of the deaf culture as we know it, Shel.
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Big money? How about the glory of being the first to solve the "problem of deafness"??

Dr. Jean-Marc Itard had tried many experiments on the deaf kids (When the Mind Hears by Harlan Lane - page 132 - 134) and the results are sometimes fatal. You know what? - nothing had changed today.
 
I loved what Shel and few others had to say in this thread. It has provided me some food for thoughts.

Dr. Graeme Clark invented CI because he wanted to 'fix' deaf people all because his dad was deaf. He saw all the communication difficulties his dad had and felt very sad for him. So he made a decision to find a cure for deafness in his father's honour.

His father was deaf, yes, but in that time, he was successful because he owned a chemist store and he could provide for his family. Lots of deaf were not encouraged to own businesses and whatnot. A shame this Professor does not look at it in this light.
 
A said:
Some of the remarks some deaf people get is personal.
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Absolutely. And that is the problem. It is being said that the deaf should not take it personally, but then the same ones turn around and take things personally. Double standards being applied.
 
Buffalo said:
No, because it is how the Deaf people perceive it and feel.
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Exactly. I have never seen a better illustration of the hearing refusing to give credibility to the deaf/Deaf perspective, refusal to even attempt to see things from a perspective other than their own hearing perspective, and so much defensiveness at the root of it than this thread. And all based on semantics. And then the hearing wonder why the deaf get annoyed.:roll:

Talk about a breakdown in communication! And English is being used across the board!
 
faire_jour said:
Yep and yep.

We were told some nasty things by both sides.

And I completely agree with the second part.
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You should not implant a child until he/she becomes an legal adult to decide for themselves if they want the procedure. Especially after they have been given a well informed decision, the pros and the cons of having a CI as well as the dangerous medical consequences that the procedure may bring, rejection and meningitis post-op.

If a parent(s) informs the child with a full medical knowledge as well as the possible consequences medically and if the child feels very uncomfortable with the procedure and doesn't want it. Are you as a parent(s) still going to force the procedure anyway, despite of the child's personal feelings? Are you going to treat the child like a piece of property rather than a human being capable of feelings?

Yiz
 
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