Experiences with my daughter.

[jag]

Rambling still on going.. you know everything the best for your daughter knowledge than everyone's pov.. Pretty find interesting rest of all your thread. Full of trash! FYI!

I'm waiting for your daughter turned against your back really bad..
I'll be very happy look forward your daughter's speak it out herself NOT YOU CLOGGY!
When your daughter turned teenager or Adult.. she'll stand up!

Lotte may or may not turn against her parents as a teen. Probably will go through a rebellious stage just as all kids do. Since Cloggy and his wife are very well attuned to their daughters needs I'm sure that if they see her struggling they will intervene and change her placement if necessary when she is older. might need to be done, might not. Not all children who are deaf get mad about the choice their parents made.

I once asked on one discussion of a young person who discontinued the use of a CI why? The reasons went from to much noise (new processors would now help with that) to eventually the fact that deaf friends without CI treated him in a way that made it easier for him to take the thing off. The confindence that Lotte has in herself and the fact that her parents are willing to listen to her will go along way in her journey through her teens. If every child could have such support it would be nice but that isn't possible in this less then perfect world.

have a nice night.

 

[jag]

Jag,

I knew there was a reason why I liked you so much! Plus the fact that your points are right on the money!
Rick

I'm having a hard time getting past the part where if I talk/sign (in my very limited way , but my youngest child does attend the school for the deaf here) to a deaf individual or have contact that means I am searching for my identity. hey. I'm deaf, I hear and oh wow. life goes on. I don't see it that way, and I don't see it that way of every child who's been implanted who goes away to college and trys new things. Life happens.

 

[jag]

Jag! You are in denial. QUOTE]

I'm very happy there.

 

[jillio]

Hmmm excuse me, I actually joined this forum to learn more about CI's and the attitude toward them in the deaf community. To hear of the successes of those who've been implanted and to hear about the CI moments and enjoy the things the children do when exposed to sound. Personally I being deaf is not the first thing in my idenity. It is what it is and life goes on.

Perhaps it is because you lost your hearing at age 14. While the issues that come with hearing loss at that age are no less dramamtic, they are still different. For one thing, at the age of 14, you had spent the entirety of your life as a hearing person, and your language acqusition was not affected, which leads to fewer academic problems. You were also of a developmental age where your self concept was pretty well solidified, your values and norms in place, and your ability to think abstractly well formed. You went through many developmental milestones as a hearing person, and despite your hearing loss, have retained such.

That is not to discount your experience, but simply to say that the experience of a child that looses hearing at the age of 14 is quite different than that of a child who is prelingually deafnened.

 

[jag]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liebling))
Yes, yes, yes I know that the parents help the children to read and writing skills when there're no radio, TV, computers etc... but not that what I tried to say in my previous posts toward Fuzzy... Fuzzy positive hearing over deaf people which I disagree to... I tried to say that it's also the same with hearing as well... not just deaf... (I am glad that you answered my previous post over literacy skill).

I want you to aware that I am deaf parent of 2 hearing boys. I tried to explain in previous post that I don't take my hearing boys away from hearing world to consider me and my own world. Fuzzy said that they still can hear thru TV, radio, computer etc. if I took my boys away from hearing world. I tried to say that it make no difference because I can take TV, radio, computer away from my hearing boys that they should be deaf be like me and consider my own world like the hearing parents who worship the bible and take TV, computer, radio etc away from hearing world to consider the bible all the time....

Understand what I mean?

No. Sorry.

Ahh let me clarify my no sorry. I think I may have the idea you're trying to present but I'm having a problem getting it all straight. as my co worker from mexico says about our supervisor sometimes he talks to much, which can confuse the issue.

So sometimes it's best to try not to get to long winded. (I know I have a problem keeping things short, and not over explaining myself, lol)

In the case of your last paragraph I really am having a problem figure out exactly what you're saying. Can you make it more simple? K.I.S.S. (and I use Keep it simple silly (rather then stupid) but I try to remember this when my forgein co workers are just agreeing while they really didn't catch what i said.

Hmmm, I'm still long winded.

 

[jag]

Perhaps it is because you lost your hearing at age 14. .

REally? Where exactly did I say I lost my hearing at age 14? No where. I said I was diagnosed at 14. There is a difference. I spent years missing stuff. Exactly how long? Who knows. And in the end. Who cares? It is what it is.

 

[jillio]

REally? Where exactly did I say I lost my hearing at age 14? No where. I said I was diagnosed at 14. There is a difference. I spent years missing stuff. Exactly how long? Who knows. And in the end. Who cares? It is what it is.

And what was your level of loss at the time you were diagnosed?

 

[jag]

And what was your level of loss at the time you were diagnosed?

I was 14, I didn't hear most of what the dr . or audiologist said. And the exam rooms are pretty small so he was sitting oh about 4 feet at the most from me. and I don't recall seeing an audiogram. But does it 'really' matter. Perhaps only to you, not to me. In the end a hearing loss is something to deal with. and i did....in my own rebellious way.

 

[jillio]

I was 14, I didn't hear most of what the dr . or audiologist said. And the exam rooms are pretty small so he was sitting oh about 4 feet at the most from me. and I don't recall seeing an audiogram. But does it 'really' matter. Perhaps only to you, not to me. In the end a hearing loss is something to deal with. and i did....in my own rebellious way.

And what about your aided levels? I am not asking just to be asking, but this information is important when engaging in discussions such as the one that has ensued. And, had you had as much difficulty prior to diagnosis, say, perhaps at the age of 3 or 4, in hearing what someone was saying the the same circumstances as you did when you were finally diagnosed at the age of 14?

 

[jag]

And what about your aided levels? I am not asking just to be asking, but this information is important when engaging in discussions such as the one that has ensued. And, had you had as much difficulty prior to diagnosis, say, perhaps at the age of 3 or 4, in hearing what someone was saying the the same circumstances as you did when you were finally diagnosed at the age of 14?

You know jillio it really doesn't matter to me. I really DON't remember back to when I was 4 yrs old. Oh I do remember my aunt who was a teen getting mad at my aunt (who is my age) and uncle and brother because we didn't do something she told us to do. the others knew what it was, me I didn't. I was probably about 7 or 8 at that time, as she was having to do more at home then since my grandmother was dieing at the time, I really didn't know we were supposed to clean the dishes. Then there were the problems with spelling and stuff even back then, eventually leading to me flunking spelling one quarter a yr later.... So exactly how much did I miss? How early did it beging? who knows, it was the early 60's when I entered school they were not really that agressive in diagnosing hearing problems, even mild ones at that time... and in the end do I really care now? Nope.

 

[jillio]

You know jillio it really doesn't matter to me. I really DON't remember back to when I was 4 yrs old. Oh I do remember my aunt who was a teen getting mad at my aunt (who is my age) and uncle and brother because we didn't do something she told us to do. the others knew what it was, me I didn't. I was probably about 7 or 8 at that time, as she was having to do more at home then since my grandmother was dieing at the time, I really didn't know we were supposed to clean the dishes. Then there were the problems with spelling and stuff even back then, eventually leading to me flunking spelling one quarter a yr later.... So exactly how much did I miss? How early did it beging? who knows, it was the early 60's when I entered school they were not really that agressive in diagnosing hearing problems, even mild ones at that time... and in the end do I really care now? Nope.

Okay, if you would prefer not to discuss it, that is your choice. Simply trying to follow Tousi's suggestion, and use the opportunity to get a productive discussion going. I guess I'll just leave it at the fact that you were not prelingually deafened,and therefore, your experience and the issues you faced were differnet than those of a prelingually deafened child.

 

[jag]

Okay, if you would prefer not to discuss it, that is your choice. Simply trying to follow Tousi's suggestion, and use the opportunity to get a productive discussion going. I guess I'll just leave it at the fact that you were not prelingually deafened,and therefore, your experience and the issues you faced were differnet than those of a prelingually deafened child.

WHat exactly is there to discuss. I explained my knowledge of when my hearing loss was diagnosed. I explained that I did in fact miss much befoe then. Yes I learned to talk because the loss was evidently not there when I was a toddler or it was so mild it didn't matter, in that time in history mild/moderat losses weren't necessarily treated. Plus I did have the advantage of have a reverse slope loss. (and that fact has been related in these CI/HA message treads a few times) that helped to i'm sure....espeically in school since I never had a male teacher in elementry. So even if I had a mild/borderline loss in the higher frequencies it would not really have been an excessive problem when speaking, tho I believe it did cause problems with understanding at times but no more then those kids who need to sit up front now because of middle ear issues.

I am quite comfortable with my life. Even when it was frustrating... I don't find it unusual for others who have hearing losses to be comfortable living out in the world without sign language, I am amazed that some who hear less then I can do so well, especially with HA's since I never got really used to them and concidered them inadiquet(sp?). It doesn't surprise me that one who is using aides (HA or CI) might choose to immerse themselves in ASL and choose not to use their voice. With a CI that is less needed for many tho. I'm comforatble with my choices and the choices (or lack there of ) made by my parents. I had fun growing up. I wasn't ignored because I had to say Huh? all the time, they just repeated themselves... So what exactly is there to discuss regarding me? If you can't hear, you can't hear. It is (or was) what it is. (or was) Just because one chooses to learn about the other side does not mean one really missed it or feels it was/is lacking in their lives.

 

[jillio]

WHat exactly is there to discuss. I explained my knowledge of when my hearing loss was diagnosed. I explained that I did in fact miss much befoe then. Yes I learned to talk because the loss was evidently not there when I was a toddler or it was so mild it didn't matter, in that time in history mild/moderat losses weren't necessarily treated. Plus I did have the advantage of have a reverse slope loss. (and that fact has been related in these CI/HA message treads a few times) that helped to i'm sure....espeically in school since I never had a male teacher in elementry. So even if I had a mild/borderline loss in the higher frequencies it would not really have been an excessive problem when speaking, tho I believe it did cause problems with understanding at times but no more then those kids who need to sit up front now because of middle ear issues.

I am quite comfortable with my life. Even when it was frustrating... I don't find it unusual for others who have hearing losses to be comfortable living out in the world without sign language, I am amazed that some who hear less then I can do so well, especially with HA's since I never got really used to them and concidered them inadiquet(sp?). It doesn't surprise me that one who is using aides (HA or CI) might choose to immerse themselves in ASL and choose not to use their voice. With a CI that is less needed for many tho. I'm comforatble with my choices and the choices (or lack there of ) made by my parents. I had fun growing up. I wasn't ignored because I had to say Huh? all the time, they just repeated themselves... So what exactly is there to discuss regarding me? If you can't hear, you can't hear. It is (or was) what it is. (or was) Just because one chooses to learn about the other side does not mean one really missed it or feels it was/is lacking in their lives.

Thank you for sharing that, jag. And given the circumstances, I'm sure that you can see how a "deaf identity" would not have been as necesary in your particular situation as it would be for a prelingually deafened child. There are many post-lingually deafned adults who feel the same as you. But that is not to say that the majority of prelingually deafened don't need, and search out, those who share their experience in order to more fully see themselves as whole deaf persons rather than hearing persons with a loss.

Evidently, your hearing loss was mild enough that it wasn't the focus of your earlier years, and indeed, allowed you to pass as hearing on into your teen years. Therefore, you perceived yourself as hearing. However, a child whose hearing loss has been the focus from the time of their first memory and before has that hearing loss pointed out to them, often with well meaning intent, throughout every single day of their lives. They focus on it because everyone else focuses on it. Even something as well intentioned as speech therapy has the residual effect of pointing out to that child that they are different. Wearing a HA points out to that child, and to others that the child is different. A child at age 14 is much better able to cope with these circumstances than is a child of 6 or 7. It is an issue of maturation.

Because no one noticed that you were having difficulty hearing in your early childhood, no one treated you as if you were having difficulty hearing. For all purposes, you were treated by parents, educators, and peers as if you were hearing. That is a different experience than the child who is born deaf, or becomes deaf prelingually. All the focus on language, all the focus on whether HA or C iis functioning properly, all of the things that fo along with prelingual deafness send an unspoken message to that child that he/she is different. Then, when that same child is placed in an environment that constantly, implicitly, points out the difference, but is told through explicit messages that they are no different, that child receives conflicting messages. And the harder they try to live up to the explicit message that tells them they are no different, the clearer the implicit message that they are different becomes.

I am happy that you were spared these difficulties. But the fact is that they do exist, they are real, and they are a common thread for many, many deaf people.

 

[InTheGenes]

REally? Where exactly did I say I lost my hearing at age 14? No where. I said I was diagnosed at 14. There is a difference. I spent years missing stuff. Exactly how long? Who knows. And in the end. Who cares? It is what it is.

Pragmatically accepting who and what you are, and how you got there is all well and good... but I, too, think there's a grain of truth in what Bear said about you reaching out to other members of the deaf (small "d"; by your own admission, you don't embrace Deaf culture) community, to learn from the experiences of people who share(d) a common experience with you, as well as to learn from those who lived a different life than you.

BTW, Bear: Great post!

Random thought, in closing: in my ASL and Deaf studies of the past few years, I've been told that one of the defining characteristics of Deaf culture is the embracing of being Deaf, embracing sign language, etc. I find myself wondering, given the advent of CI technology, if a place might not NEED to be made at the table for CI recipients who either choose or DON'T choose to learn sign. It's a strange analogy, I know, but it's the first thing that popped into my head: it's almost like Judaism, where there are Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews, Jews for Jesus, etc. At the end of the day, despite their differences, they're all still Jewish. At the end of the day, whether a deaf person wears HAs, is implanted with a CI, uses ASL only, etc... they're all still deaf.

LOL, I'm exhausted (it's mid-terms time, and I've also been dealing with a very ill parent), so if I don't make any sense, feel free to ignore me!

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Lotte may or may not turn against her parents as a teen. Probably will go through a rebellious stage just as all kids do.

No, not all children/teenagers are rebellious.

Not all children who are deaf get mad about the choice their parents made.

Yes, that's right but I would say most children lost their respect on their parent's choice, they made for them without discuss with them first.

 

[jag]

Because no one noticed that you were having difficulty hearing in your early childhood, no one treated you as if you were having difficulty hearing. For all purposes, you were treated by parents, educators, and peers as if you were hearing. That is a different experience than the child who is born deaf, or becomes deaf prelingually. All the focus on language, all the focus on whether HA or C iis functioning properly, all of the things that fo along with prelingual deafness send an unspoken message to that child that he/she is different. Then, when that same child is placed in an environment that constantly, implicitly, points out the difference, but is told through explicit messages that they are no different, that child receives conflicting messages. And the harder they try to live up to the explicit message that tells them they are no different, the clearer the implicit message that they are different becomes.

I am happy that you were spared these difficulties. But the fact is that they do exist, they are real, and they are a common thread for many, many deaf people.

Whatever ....

the thing with Lotte is she does hear. (to stay on topic) She hears very well and evidently she processes the sounds more like normally developing kids. She is in effect very close to being 'pre lingal' as it were since she was given her implants at such and early age. An age where some 'normal' kids experience delays to. (my granddaughter seems to be delayed )

She is able to take advantage of the rapid learning of sounds and speech because of her age.

Is it normal? I believe you like to bring that up. Well to you it would not be normal....to her it is. To me the sounds are exactly as I remember them, plus all the ones I have to figure out when I hear them. To her the sounds will be normal, because the sounds through her implant are all she knows, each noise will have it's own slot in her memory. She will continue to learn what different sounds are because the processors to pick up those sounds. She seems to be able to do something I have alot of trouble doing and that's not be excessivly desturbed by having every little noise amplyfied. (thank God for programming options) The processors now are quite capable of spanning a large number for frequencies. The software is developed to use in different situations. They programmers seem to work hard to address issues that wearers ask to have fixed. The do a great job. Todays CI is nothing like the first one that came out.

As for deaf identity. As someone said she will develope her own identity, perhaps deaf, perhaps hearing or perhaps hmmm, cyborg. Life is full of challenges to everyone and no one will react in the same way. Lotte has much time to decide where she is going and the support of her family to help her get there.. And I'm sure she will.

Then regarding the issue of parents un knowingly pushing for a certain choice. I'm sure it happens. But then again it's also well known that people in social services and phycologists etc. etc. also tend to lead people to believe things about themselves that really aren't the actual problem. Depressed memories. Kids being lead to believe they were in a day care where they were exposed to molestation and witchcraft. and even kids who have been convinced by peers that they really don't like their life as it is. and so on and so on.

Life goes on and so do I. Have a good day. I need some sleep.

 

[jag]

No, not all children/teenagers are rebellious.



Yes, that's right but I would say most children lost their respect on their parent's choice, they made for them without discuss with them first.

Ahh, well many are rebellious, it makes life EXCITING. My kids were for the most part mellow but they did do some rebelling.

You can't pick your parents. And parents make mistakes. And very young children do not make decisions for themselves, well except maybe picking out their own clothes. Now if a child would tell their parents how bad it is to use the oral approach then I could see being mad at them. But whatever.

Good night.

 

[jag]

Pragmatically accepting who and what you are, and how you got there is all well and good... but I, too, think there's a grain of truth in what Bear said about you reaching out to other members of the deaf (small "d"; by your own admission, you don't embrace Deaf culture) community, to learn from the experiences of people who share(d) a common experience with you, as well as to learn from those who lived a different life than you.

BTW, Bear: Great post!

Random thought, in closing: in my ASL and Deaf studies of the past few years, I've been told that one of the defining characteristics of Deaf culture is the embracing of being Deaf, embracing sign language, etc. I find myself wondering, given the advent of CI technology, if a place might not NEED to be made at the table for CI recipients who either choose or DON'T choose to learn sign. It's a strange analogy, I know, but it's the first thing that popped into my head: it's almost like Judaism, where there are Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews, Jews for Jesus, etc. At the end of the day, despite their differences, they're all still Jewish. At the end of the day, whether a deaf person wears HAs, is implanted with a CI, uses ASL only, etc... they're all still deaf.

LOL, I'm exhausted (it's mid-terms time, and I've also been dealing with a very ill parent), so if I don't make any sense, feel free to ignore me!

Hmmm, why the heck do you feel the need to analyse (sp?) me. Really it's ok but quite needless. I am who and what I am. If I choose to join a forum discussing CI issues since they do effect me personally it is just for that reason. To discuss Cloggy's Lotte is also fun. To discuss the choices she's making and the languages she can understand and speak is great. To find what someone has done to take care of a problem with their CI is nice.

To have someone disect my thoughts and tell me what I think....well frankly whatever floats your boat I guess.

oh and to add good luck with the mid terms.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Ahh let me clarify my no sorry. I think I may have the idea you're trying to present but I'm having a problem getting it all straight. as my co worker from mexico says about our supervisor sometimes he talks to much, which can confuse the issue.

So sometimes it's best to try not to get to long winded. (I know I have a problem keeping things short, and not over explaining myself, lol)

In the case of your last paragraph I really am having a problem figure out exactly what you're saying. Can you make it more simple? K.I.S.S. (and I use Keep it simple silly (rather then stupid) but I try to remember this when my forgein co workers are just agreeing while they really didn't catch what i said.

Hmmm, I'm still long winded.

I'm trying my best to explain again...

Sure, the hearing parents can train their children to read and writing skill, including hear development when there're no radio, TV, etc around in the house...

I beleive that you know that some parents homeschool their children without show them to real world..., social skill, etc but themselves... want them read the bible all the time with no radio, TV, etc... The children will grow up to know about only bibles...

Some deaf parents who want hearing children to be like them and take radio, TV, computer etc away and make them deaf and refuse to let hearing children to involve hearing eviornment.... it make them become deaf person... They don't know that they are hearing

Some hearing parents who want deaf children to be like them and train them to hear the sound development and neglect to learn and involve their deaf children's world... it make them become hearing person... They don't know they are deaf

which is not right...

For me...

I as deaf parent have radio, TV, computer etc in household because I know my children are hearing. I send them to child-minder to develop their speech before they goes their first kindergarden when they were 3 years old because I know they are hearing. I develop their reading and writing skill because the literacy skill is for me a mainly important. I use sign language because I want my children know what I am...

I as hearing parent who have anything in the house for disabilty child and learn to know where my disabitly child come from and learn their development and let them involve with other children that my child will know that she/he is not alone... including help them to develop reading and writing skill as well...

 

[InTheGenes]

But then again it's also well known that people in social services and phycologists etc. etc. also tend to lead people to believe things about themselves that really aren't the actual problem. Depressed memories. Kids being lead to believe they were in a day care where they were exposed to molestation and witchcraft. and even kids who have been convinced by peers that they really don't like their life as it is.

I don't believe that's true at all. In therapy, part of dealing with the problems a person is experiencing in their life is CONFRONTING those problems, and confronting the issues of the past. This is usually NOT a comfortable experience... but repressing "depressive memories" isn't DEALING with them, it's just compartmentalizing them, sometimes allowing people to "move on", as you say. The problem is, for many people, that only works for so long.

As for implanting false memores of molestation and witchcraft... that's hogwash. Maybe that's happened SOMEWHERE in the world, but I assure you, that is NOT standard practice. That's about as silly an argument as the folks who claim that a plane didn't hit the Pentagon on 9/11 and/or that the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition. wave: Cloggy!)

I'm not a therapist, I don't even play one on TV, and I don't even GO to one... but I have a great deal of respect for the profession.