Experiences with my daughter.

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Fuzzy's post
I really don't know how's that even possible. You live in a hearing world - whichever way you turn it's sound sound sound. Even if you kept your kids at home- there is TV, radio, computer - whatever,
As soon as child set its foot outside - there are hearing children and adults everywhere...

Fuzzy
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Fuzzy's post
deaf children are too in predominantly hearing world, and have to be taken on purpose to be in the deaf enviroment, so that's different.
Hearing child is already in a hearing enviroment, that is why i can't see how it is possible to keep them away from it... like I've said- they hear sounds even in their own home, deaf parents or not...

Fuzzy
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Audiofuzzy said:
jills, jills, jills - before you fall from a deep end again, may I remind you -
I asked Liebling HOW DO YOU KEEP a HEARING CHILD FROM HEARING WORLD?
I didn't ask her how you INDOCTRINATE it.
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I repeated dozen of times over literacy skill to you in several threads in the past. All what you kept saying that train children to hear the sound and speech development is important than sign language and I kept saying that speech, language skill and sign language development is important than develop to hear the sounds...

Anyway, can you explain me please how could hearing people struggle to read and write when they living in hearing atompshere/enviornement, like TV, radio, etc?

The Sector Skills Council for Central Government - Skills for Life - Background
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Anyway, can you explain me please how could hearing people struggle to read and write when they living in hearing atompshere/enviornement, like TV, radio, etc?
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But that has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing here, Liebling?
I was asking you about keeping hearing children away from hearing world, in which we live? it has nothing to do with literacy.

Fuzzy
 
All what you kept saying that train children to hear the sound and speech development is important than sign language
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oh nononono I never said that.
not "more important"- never. that's your conclusion.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
But that has nothing to do with the subject we are discussing here, Liebling?
I was asking you about keeping hearing children away from hearing world, in which we live? it has nothing to do with literacy.

Fuzzy
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Yes it has do with literacy skill...

I answered your questions about TV, radio, etc in hearing atompshere where hearing children can hear easily when I tried to keep hearing children away from hearing world.

Some parents can take radio, TV, computer, etc away from hearing children due relgious belief...

Many hearing people struggle with read and writing skill and also speech as well..., no matter either they can hear or not... due parental negligence.

That's why I support to develop my children when they are different as me, no matter either they can hear or not. I want them to know that they are not alone who are different as me.
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Anyway, can you explain me please how could hearing people struggle to read and write when they living in hearing atompshere/enviornement, like TV, radio, etc?

The Sector Skills Council for Central Government - Skills for Life - Background
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Oh hearing people also have difficulty in hearing things. Many do have problems processing sound, their brains actually need to be trained to not let all the noise bother them. It's really interesting topic of discussion on D.S. lists that I've been on. There is actually training for CAPD which can help the child learn to deal with the sensory issues related to the over stimulation of their brains. That over stimulation can cause behavior problems and it's to be it's not one of the things explored when a child has sensory issues. to many are medicated to quicky.

And for the record deaf children also can have sensory issues and other LD's that interfere with their literacy. But in their case, like my daughter who is MR thier problems are probably first blamed on the deafness.
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Liebling:-))) said:
Yes it has do with literacy skill...

I answered your questions about TV, radio, etc in hearing atompshere where hearing children can hear easily when I tried to keep hearing children away from hearing world.

Some parents can take radio, TV, computer, etc away from hearing children due relgious belief...

Many hearing people struggle with read and writing skill and also speech as well..., no matter either they can hear or not... due parental negligence.
That's why I support to develop my children when they are different as me, no matter either they can hear or not. I want them to know that they are not alone who are different as me.
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from that statement is seems you're saying that one can not learn to read and speak etc. withouth the radio, tv or computer? Sorry they can do so. Reading helps very much, it's why parents are encouraged to read read read to their children from the time they're infants. The children who hear and have difficulty reading and writing usually have some other problem they need to learn to deal with, dyslexia, dyspragia(sp?) CAPD, etc etc. It just takes attentive parents and educators to notice and identify the problem.
 
jillio said:
.......... People on this board who have lived through it have tried toshare the importance of thse social experiences and the harmful effects that they have had on them, yet you continue to insist that, because Lotte can hear with her CI, it will not happen to her. ........
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Naive... nice word.... easy way to insult someone....
Nobody on this board has grown up with CI.
And social experiences... she's having them...lots of them..

Pitty you cannot picture a child that is doing well with CI.. Especially a pitty for the children that you meet. They are meeting a person with a very negative look on CI.... negative spiral growing... growing..
 
jillio said:
And, your daughter now has deaf friends who are signers, does she not?
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Why is that required??

... or is the fact that she does not "need" them cut down all the pillars of your beliefs that is is essential?

You really have a hard time visualising a child that is deaf and does not need sign, or deaf friends....
SO much for being open-minded....
 
Cloggy said:
Naive... nice word.... easy way to insult someone....
Nobody on this board has grown up with CI.
And social experiences... she's having them...lots of them..

Pitty you cannot picture a child that is doing well with CI.. Especially a pitty for the children that you meet. They are meeting a person with a very negative look on CI.... negative spiral growing... growing..
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Well I didn't need a deaf identity while growing up.

To put my life with hearing loss into perspective, when I was diagnosed around 14 yrs old the one dr evidently told my mom (for some reason ENT's and audi's have your audiogram and then talk to you like you can hear them, roflol) that he was surprised I was doing what I was doing at that age. What was I doing? Playing basketball, starter. (varsity) Playing in trumpet in the band. (later changed to baritone) getting average grades in classes. (missed alot so had to ask friends for the assignments at times) Cheerleading (including all the tumbling etc) and then there were the interactions with my friends. As I got older I actually partied just as hard as they did. :eek3:
 
Cloggy said:
Why is that required??

... or is the fact that she does not "need" them cut down all the pillars of your beliefs that is is essential?

You really have a hard time visualising a child that is deaf and does not need sign, or deaf friends....
SO much for being open-minded....
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I wonder if she's referring to the fact that some of the friends Ricks' daughter has made in college use sign and the fact that his daughter has finally decided to take sign classes? Tho why that would mean that she feels she's missed out on her deaf identity is beyond me.
 
jag said:
Oh hearing people also have difficulty in hearing things. Many do have problems processing sound, their brains actually need to be trained to not let all the noise bother them. It's really interesting topic of discussion on D.S. lists that I've been on. There is actually training for CAPD which can help the child learn to deal with the sensory issues related to the over stimulation of their brains. That over stimulation can cause behavior problems and it's to be it's not one of the things explored when a child has sensory issues. to many are medicated to quicky.

And for the record deaf children also can have sensory issues and other LD's that interfere with their literacy. But in their case, like my daughter who is MR thier problems are probably first blamed on the deafness.
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Thank you for answer on my post... Yes I know and agree with you on this... I learn about literacy at parental conference... Interesting subject.

I was told that it's very important to develop the hearing & deaf children with literacy skill and also social skill as well... It's easy to develop the children's interest and moivatation... good self-esteem.

I support literacy skill fully including social skills... and want to see deaf children to develop language skill including sign language as well.... It moivate their self-esteem.
 
jag said:
from that statement is seems you're saying that one can not learn to read and speak etc. withouth the radio, tv or computer? Sorry they can do so. Reading helps very much, it's why parents are encouraged to read read read to their children from the time they're infants. The children who hear and have difficulty reading and writing usually have some other problem they need to learn to deal with, dyslexia, dyspragia(sp?) CAPD, etc etc. It just takes attentive parents and educators to notice and identify the problem.
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Yes, yes, yes I know that the parents help the children to read and writing skills when there're no radio, TV, computers etc... but not that what I tried to say in my previous posts toward Fuzzy... Fuzzy positive hearing over deaf people which I disagree to... I tried to say that it's also the same with hearing as well... not just deaf... (I am glad that you answered my previous post over literacy skill).

I want you to aware that I am deaf parent of 2 hearing boys. I tried to explain in previous post that I don't take my hearing boys away from hearing world to consider me and my own world. Fuzzy said that they still can hear thru TV, radio, computer etc. if I took my boys away from hearing world. I tried to say that it make no difference because I can take TV, radio, computer away from my hearing boys that they should be deaf be like me and consider my own world like the hearing parents who worship the bible and take TV, computer, radio etc away from hearing world to consider the bible all the time....

Understand what I mean?
 
Cloggy said:
Exactly...
That's why a deaf child is not automatically Deaf, nor is a deaf child that can hear automatically loosing her identity. On the contrairy. Identity is there.... just not the one d/Deaf people can identify with..
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You are correct, cloggy. A child who is deaf is not automatically Deaf. However she is still deaf, and will remains so for a lifetime. She is not hearing ,not will she ever be hearing. Therefore, as her deafness is a part of who she is, inexplicablly and forever, the chanceof her finding her identity as Deaf is greater than her findign her identity as hearing. Why because she is not hearing,a nd therefore will never be able to BE hearing. She is deaf with sound perception. The deafness will always be there, and is a part of her everyday existence, now and forever, no matter what devise you choose to create sound perception. Identity is comprised of several components. Waht you seem to be unable to accept, is that your daughter has deafness as a part of her innate characteristics, and that simple fact alone, sets her apart from those who do not have deafess as a part of their innate characteristics. And the chances are greater that she will seek out affilitaion with those who share this characteristic than those who don't. I find it sad that you seem to be so unable to accept this, especially after having been provided the experience of many deaf individuals who have experienced being in a home where it wasn't accepted, and their sharing with you the hardship and unhappiness it caused them.
 
jillio said:
You are correct, cloggy. A child who is deaf is not automatically Deaf. However she is still deaf, and will remains so for a lifetime. She is not hearing ,not will she ever be hearing. Therefore, as her deafness is a part of who she is, inexplicablly and forever, the chanceof her finding her identity as Deaf is greater than her findign her identity as hearing. Why because she is not hearing,a nd therefore will never be able to BE hearing. She is deaf with sound perception. The deafness will always be there, and is a part of her everyday existence, now and forever, no matter what devise you choose to create sound perception. Identity is comprised of several components. Waht you seem to be unable to accept, is that your daughter has deafness as a part of her innate characteristics, and that simple fact alone, sets her apart from those who do not have deafess as a part of their innate characteristics. And the chances are greater that she will seek out affilitaion with those who share this characteristic than those who don't. I find it sad that you seem to be so unable to accept this, especially after having been provided the experience of many deaf individuals who have experienced being in a home where it wasn't accepted, and their sharing with you the hardship and unhappiness it caused them.
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I still have to meet 1 member here that grew up with CI. That is born deaf, and grew up with CI....
Apearently, you seem to have seen them on AllDeaf.... Tell me JT... who are they?

And, please....
Define "deaf" (the official version)
Define "hearing" (the official version)

And then find any mistakes in my claim "Lotte is deaf. She can hear...."
 
Cloggy said:
Appearently, you are making sure it is going to be an issue. Any child with CI that you get influence upon, will have to realise they are deaf. Like it or not.
We are not making an issue out of it. The friends in the kindergarten are not making an issue out of it. Does that mean that it will never be an issue. Probably not. And we are constantly aware of issues.... but unlike you, I will not make an issue when there is not....
Gee, really.....
And in order to prevent that from happening, we need to get her out of her environment and look for deaf people. So, in the case we find one or two, she is forced to play with these.. Like it or not.
No, thank you... she is happy where she is. She is doing very well, and learning to cope with any handicap she might come across. She is getting lots of help. The same as she would need when playing with a deaf child. She would need help there as well.
And of course she will get rejected by some. Would this not happen in an all-deaf environment? Could it be that no matter what, children are rejected by their peers.. sounds like ... life...
and the same for hearing people.... Exactly... ties with the community. That is what is happening now. That what she is doing right now.... Sad that you don't see that..
Actually, that is a big issue. You might want to marginalise it, in the rest of the world that is very important...
"oral deaf person" and "oral deaf person with CI" are two quite different things... You need more boxes to put deaf people in I guess...
And we are providing a safe environment for her, because we know that there will be issues in the future...
Why do you think that a deaf environment is the only environment that will be able to deal with the issues...?? It is not.
Absolutely... and with people explaining to her how deaf she is, how she has to have contact with deaf people, how she has to know sign, because she is going to be rejected etc.... I don't feel that that kind of "support" will be good for her.. in fact, I'm sure.

So, please,
When you meet a child with CI, don't automatically assume that it (he/she for you) needs help.... YOu might depress him/her with your "help"...
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Well, well, cloggy. So you admit that there will most likely be issues as Lotte gets older. Why not set up an environment now that will give her the skills and the support she needs to deal with those issues? Why ignore the future?

Contact with other deaf people will provide Lotte with contact with those to whom she can relate in a way that she will never be able to relate to hearing peers.

Yu say that you are providing Lotte with a "safe" environment. Safe from what, cloggy? The realities of life? Perhaps that is possible when she is 4....it is not possible when she is 14.

You won't ever have to force Lotte to have contact with other deaf. It is something she will seek out naturally. All you need to do is provide the opportunity and see what happens. You cannot prevent her innate drive that pushes us toward those who sahre our circumstances simply by isolating her fromthe deaf community. However, I think you already know that, and are in some way fearful of Lotte gravitating toward other deaf individuals.

Trust me, Lotte would not need help palying with a deaf child. In fact, the very concept of help is contradictory to the concept of play. Children engage in paly quite anturally, without any instruction and any help. It is when the parents attempt to direct and structure the play that iit is not permitted to fulfill the very real developmental needs that are fulfilled through play.

Whose needs are most important....your daughter's or as you put it, "the rest of the world". Byt he rest of the world, you are assuming that the rest of the world subscibes to the same values and norms as hearing culture, and you are very mistaken in that assumption, cloggy.

I can see that you are doing everything in your power to minimailize the issues that Lotte, and all deaf children, and al hearing children face as they grow. You are extremely protective of Lotte, and that is a natural parental reaction. However, if you do not allow her those experiences in her life that will allow her to develop the skills she needs to grow into a healthy adult with confidence and a solid sense of self, then you are doing her no favors.

The path that your daughter will walk, no matter what you do, is the same path that has been walked by other deaf children. Those deaf chidlren are now adults, and they attempt to explain to you what their existence was like, what could have made that existence better, and what they needed fromtheir parents in order to avoid many of the problems that they experienced. Yet, you seem to place no value on that. Tell me cloggy...have you ever been a deaf child? No, you haven't. Therefore, the only person that can fully explain to you what it is to be a deaf child, is a deaf adult who has lived it. You are discounting a very valuable resource that could actually help you, but you continue to reject it because the wisdom comes from a deaf person? Ask yourself cloggy, why is it that you are so fearful?
 
jag said:
Liebling:-))) said:
Oh hearing people also have difficulty in hearing things. Many do have problems processing sound, their brains actually need to be trained to not let all the noise bother them. It's really interesting topic of discussion on D.S. lists that I've been on. There is actually training for CAPD which can help the child learn to deal with the sensory issues related to the over stimulation of their brains. That over stimulation can cause behavior problems and it's to be it's not one of the things explored when a child has sensory issues. to many are medicated to quicky.

And for the record deaf children also can have sensory issues and other LD's that interfere with their literacy. But in their case, like my daughter who is MR thier problems are probably first blamed on the deafness.
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CAPD is a disorder of neurological etiology, and manifests through difficulty with cognitive processing of auditory stimulus. It is a spearate issue entirely and cannot be compared with deafness, nor are the methods of treatment inany way related to those that would be used with a deaf child. To compare CAPD with cognitive and developmental issues is ridiculas.

And yes, deaf children can have sensory issues and LD, but those issuues are totally unrealted to the deafness, and are treated as separate issues. To your way of thinking, we should put all deaf children and all children with LD ot sensory issues intot he same group and address them all the same.
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Cloggy said:
Patronising.... when are you going to stop with that...???? Or does it come naturally
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That wasn't patronizing in the least. Quite obviously, because the question posed was answered in such an unrelated way so a to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding, it is necessary to break in down into smaller units with more explicit description in order to provide that understanding.
 
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