Cloggy was that really necessary? That kind of comment just makes you look bad and it makes you look like you have to prove that you are right about everything.
I too, have many hearing friends. I too, speak. But what is so wrong with advocating sign and involvement with deaf peers?
I'm not saying that Lotte has to be involved with deaf peers. I am not saying anyone has to be. However, is it really such an evil? Is signing really such an evil?
I could immerse myself into the hearing world and never look back. However, I do believe that there is a natural curiosity and a natural want to become involved with the deaf peers.
Im not saying that you are intentionally keeping Lotte away from her deaf peers, nor am I saying that you are forcing her not to sign. I am not even saying you would prevent her from doing so.
But really Cloggy, at 4 years old, she really isnt old enough to TRULY decide which she wants to identify with. You just naturally assume that it will be with the hearing. Yet, she may surprise you and become involved with the deaf.
Even if she doesnt. IMO there is no right or wrong way of going about this. I do believe it does not hurt for her to also have other friends that are just like her. Both deaf and CI. Those are the friends she can identify with as she gets older.
I say that because as she gets older she will want other CI children that she can identify with and be able to talk about the issues involving a CI. That is gonna be a natural want.
Jag,
You say you didn't need a deaf identity growing up. While that may be true, later in life you are obviously seeking out your deaf identity. If you werent you wouldnt be here posting. Which is a good thing for you and anyone else who seeks out their deaf identity.
Seeking out other deaf in any form is connecting with people who are just like you. Whether that be a forum, a deaf club, a deaf school, or even a CI forum.
I think, everyone here could learn alot from each other. Cloggy, instead of arguing that Lotte can hear with the CI and that you are right about your oral only approach as of right now. Why not talk about what it is like to actually be in the hearing world as a hearing person and why you would want that for Lotte?
Jag, why not tell us about your experiences growing up as a child who was fully immersed into a hearing world from a deaf perspective?
Jillio, why not tell us why you feel that your son is gonna be a more well rounded individual for having grown up fully immersed in the deaf world?
Actually, Bear, I have explained this numerous times, but am more than willing to address the subject again. And, the reality of the situation is that my son was not fully immersed int he deaf world to the exclusion of the hearing. That would ahve been impossible, as I am hearing,a nd all of my son's family is hearing. I sought to raise my son in a bicultureal, bilingual environment. He was exposed equally to both deaf and hearing individuals, and spoken languge and sign language. He has speech skills, and he also is fluent in ASL as his first langauge.
My posts regarding the development of identity, are based not only on my experience with my son, but of 21 years worth of involvement with the Deaf community, friendships with numerous deaf adults, relationships with other deaf students with whom my son attended school, as well as my education in psychology and counseling. The facets of identity, and the consequences when certain developmental stages are not met, and certain innate needs are not met, are something I also deal with on a daily bais in counseling deaf adolescents and young adults. The need to connect with others like ourselves is not just a need that is found in deaf individuals, it is a common trait for all humans, and it is the foundation on which one builds relationships that provide the models needsed for a child to form their own accurate and healthy self concept. A deaf child who is exposed to only hearing individuals has the innate knowledge of the fact that they are not the same as these hearing indiviuals, and yet, they are exposed to nothing else to use as a model for developing their self concept. As a ressult, many,many of these chidlren grow up witht he internalized belief that they are inferior in some way. They develop the self concept of a hearing person with something missing, rather than as a whole deaf person. As a consequence, they develop many additional issues that prevent them from functioning to their optimal potential. Just onthis board, we have heard from adults who as teen agers and young adults developed such behaviors as eating disorders, who required counseling to deal with the issues created by such an environment, who have struggled with self esteem and identity issues into their adulthood. I have a group full of teenagers who continue to relate the same stories. The common theme among all is that they have not been provided easy access to the deaf community, that they were not permitted to learn sign language, that they were restricted to a hearing only environment, and that once they had contact with other deaf individuals, they began to see that there was nothing wrong with them at all. We have teenagers that post tothis forum because they are restricted to an oral environment,and they crave connection with others who share thier circumstances and can understand.
Many others here that are deaf and grew up deaf can and do tell us what it was like growing up as a deaf child.
Exactly, and that is exactly the approach I used in reaising my son. I am hearing, I did not know what it was to be a deaf child. The professionals that I was referred to were hearing; they did not know what it was to be a deaf child. The only perosn that could educate me regarding what it was to be a deaf child, what they needed as a child, what benefitted them the most as a child, was a deaf adult who had lived through the experience. As a consequence, I formed friendships with deaf adults who could teach me what I needed to know about my own deaf child's experience. It is an approach that I continue today in my counseling.
If I have learned anything in my parenting of a deaf child, and my 21 years worth of association with deaf adults and children, it is that the deaf individual knows what they need, and if we are to do a service of any kind, we must provide them with what they tell us they need, not with what we as hearing people think they need. Why, because as hearing people, we have not experienced deafness, and it is only through that experience that one is able to determine what one needs. I have also heard a common theme in all of my many and numerous conversations with a variety of deaf individuals...some culturally Deaf, some not, some with oral skills, some who strictly sign, kids who were mainstreamed, kids with CI....in other words, deaf people froma ll walks of life. And that common theme is one of feeling whole for the first time once they finally connected with others who share the unique expereince of also being deaf. It is something they spend a great deal of time and effort searching for....that experience that allows them to feel complete.
As cloggy has pointed out, I am hearing. I do not know, from the inside out, what it is to be deaf. However, thanks to the numerous deaf people who have come into my life over the past 21 years that have so graciously shared their experience and their wisdom with me, I have developed a deep understanding of what it is to be deaf and the issues that are common to all. Thanks to my education, I am able to apply theory, both developmental and cognitive, ina way that expands that understanding, and allows me to see remedical measure for preventing what is caused by environment. I am able to see the cognitive impact, the emotional impact, the social impact, and the educational impact. I started a thread awhile back asking if the deaf posters on this board believed that I had as complete an understanding of deafness and the issues subsequent as was possible for a hearing person, and also if they beleived that I continued to seek to increase my understanding. The overwhelming response was that they believed that this was true.
I am more than willing to share my experience as a hearing parent of a deaf child, more than willing to discuss the decisons I made and why, more than willing to discuss the psychological impact of various situations, more than willing to discuss developmental issues, etc. I have never refused to answer a sincere question that has been posed to me, not will I ever refuse to answer a sincere question. But what I will not do is continue to engage insdiscussions where it is obvious that no one is interested in learning and engaging in open discussion. It has become increasingly obvious that there are a few members here who are so rigid in their beliefs over that which they have yet to encounter that they are incapable of listening to the experienceof others who have walked that path before them. They see their own situation as so unique that they are unable to relate the similarities in their experience and the experience of others who have already completed that journey. They are unwilling to accept that their experience is not unique and different from all others on this earth, but in fact bears many similarities and that there is a wealth of information available to them from those who have already been there.
I could tell you what it was like growing up as a hearing child and then having my hearing decline on me to such a state that I was deaf at 14 years old. And what it is like to not truly belong to either world.
ALL of us could learn alot from each other, if only we chose to stop having to be right about everything. And start chosing to open our minds and really listening to the stories that are just wanting to be heard here.
Debating may be a good thing, but listening and truly listening to each other is an even better thing.
We can do without the sarcasm and cynism in our postings. But we simply cannot do without joining together in one basic movement. And that movement being whether if you are a CI user, a latened deaf person, a Deaf or deaf child, d/Deaf adult, oral only, sign only, or hearing parent, is to come together and fight for better deaf rights.
Who cares who has a CI and who doesnt? Who cares who can sign and who cant sign? When there are bigger issues at stake.
Many of you will say there are no issues at stake. You make your life how you make it.
That is simply not true. We need to come together and stop the discrimination that happens in the workplaces,schools, drs offices, and every else against the deaf.
Cloggy, Rick, Jillio these issues will apply to all of you whether if you want to admit it or not. Even though you say that because of speech and better hearing or knowing signs and whatnot, they will still face discrimination.
Instead of arguing whether if a chidl should be implanted or not, or arguing that sign or speech is better than the other. We should be standing strong and supporting ALL Deaf people no matter what the choices were or is for them.
Without unity, there is no change. Without change, we stagnate. Once we stagnate, the oppression of deaf and ci people every where continues.
Bear
And we are lucky to have her on this board and learn so much about it from her.
