Does CI person need interpreter?

[vallee]

I agree so I dont understand why some of those children's parents say that they dont want their children learning sign language. It makes me want to scream. Also, those children couldnt communicate with my students and I think that is sad cuz they are all deaf.

These are the same group of parents that march straight to the principal's office the first day of school and say - move my child from that deaf teacher's classroom. It is ignorances. I have to say I have only had around 4 children moved from my class in the 14 years teaching. I have had repeats - younger brothers or sisters or even cousins asked to be placed in my classroom.

I think it has less to do with learning ASL and more to do with why do I have to learn ASL. We also have parents who have had a terrible experience in the Deaf Community or the child's program is working out well, so why change. We have to judge each child and family differntly. Families are overwhelmed with everything added all the time to there "plate." Just like teachers, we feel we don't have time to teach. Maybe parents just want to be parents and have time just to spend with their children. Not at another class or another activity, just let us sit at home and enjoy each other or let me give this program we are committed to time to work first. my opinion

 

[shel90]

These are the same group of parents that march straight to the principal's office the first day of school and say - move my child from that deaf teacher's classroom. It is ignorances. I have to say I have only had around 4 children moved from my class in the 14 years teaching. I have had repeats - younger brothers or sisters or even cousins asked to be placed in my classroom.

I think it has less to do with learning ASL and more to do with why do I have to learn ASL. We also have parents who have had a terrible experience in the Deaf Community or the child's program is working out well, so why change. We have to judge each child and family differntly. Families are overwhelmed with everything added all the time to there "plate." Just like teachers, we feel we don't have time to teach. Maybe parents just want to be parents and have time just to spend with their children. Not at another class or another activity, just let us sit at home and enjoy each other or let me give this program we are committed to time to work first. my opinion

Maybe but it is hard not to notice the ugly look on their faces when I bring up ASL and how their body language showed how much they dont want their children learning. The teachers of those kids have told me that those parents dont want their kids around my students. I dont know how else I am supposed to take it.

 

[vallee]

Maybe but it is hard not to notice the ugly look on their faces when I bring up ASL and how their body language showed how much they dont want their children learning. The teachers of those kids have told me that those parents dont want their kids around my students. I dont know how else I am supposed to take it.

many times it is so hard to look into the heart of the parents. It is not just deaf, but all disabilities. I had a student who has an IQ of 52, he is Mentally Retarded. The parents refused to have that listed on the IEP. They wanted Developmental Delayed or Functionally Delayed, just not MR. It broke my heart to see the pain they where in. It was less about the fact the child had a 52 IQ and more about if we label the child, we restrict him from being independent.

I understand both sides. Don't take it as a hate ASL, don't believe my child is deaf. I believe most understand and accept, just want the best choices for there child. One way I get parents to accept and understand the limitations and abilities is invite them into the classroom. Ask them to participate. Have the child teach them to sign. And if it does not work, give them your e-mail address and make yourself available. You may not hear from them for years, but they will remember you as a caring educator that took the time to assist them. That is just want I try to do. I have wonderful parents who I still talk too. I had one parent bring in her child's IEP this year and ask me to go over it with her. She wanted to make sure her child was not limited.

 

[rick48]

many times it is so hard to look into the heart of the parents. It is not just deaf, but all disabilities. I had a student who has an IQ of 52, he is Mentally Retarded. The parents refused to have that listed on the IEP. They wanted Developmental Delayed or Functionally Delayed, just not MR. It broke my heart to see the pain they where in. It was less about the fact the child had a 52 IQ and more about if we label the child, we restrict him from being independent.

I understand both sides. Don't take it as a hate ASL, don't believe my child is deaf. I believe most understand and accept, just want the best choices for there child. One way I get parents to accept and understand the limitations and abilities is invite them into the classroom. Ask them to participate. Have the child teach them to sign. And if it does not work, give them your e-mail address and make yourself available. You may not hear from them for years, but they will remember you as a caring educator that took the time to assist them. That is just want I try to do. I have wonderful parents who I still talk too. I had one parent bring in her child's IEP this year and ask me to go over it with her. She wanted to make sure her child was not limited.

Nice post vallee, you sound like a gifted and caring educator.
Rick

 

[shel90]

many times it is so hard to look into the heart of the parents. It is not just deaf, but all disabilities. I had a student who has an IQ of 52, he is Mentally Retarded. The parents refused to have that listed on the IEP. They wanted Developmental Delayed or Functionally Delayed, just not MR. It broke my heart to see the pain they where in. It was less about the fact the child had a 52 IQ and more about if we label the child, we restrict him from being independent.

I understand both sides. Don't take it as a hate ASL, don't believe my child is deaf. I believe most understand and accept, just want the best choices for there child. One way I get parents to accept and understand the limitations and abilities is invite them into the classroom. Ask them to participate. Have the child teach them to sign. And if it does not work, give them your e-mail address and make yourself available. You may not hear from them for years, but they will remember you as a caring educator that took the time to assist them. That is just want I try to do. I have wonderful parents who I still talk too. I had one parent bring in her child's IEP this year and ask me to go over it with her. She wanted to make sure her child was not limited.

Have the child teach them sign? Their child do not know sign language to begin with. I think there is a misunderstanding so let me start over...

I work at public schools during the summertime for summer school with my students from my school because the state wont fund a summer program at our school so all of our students go back to their local schools during the summer for summer school. We, teachers, are assigned to those different schools working with our students from our school. What I was saying that while working at those public schools, we meet oral deaf kids who go to those public schools year round. Ok...those kids meet my students who use ASL and they become fascinated with signing and ask questions. I ask their teachers (oral only deaf ed teachers) about them signing and their teachers tell me that their parents dont want their kids learning sign for fear of interfering with their spoken language development (another misconception that never ceases to drive me nuts) so sometimes I see their parents. So, I go up to them and introduce myself and tell them that their children are interested in learning sign language and give them brochures about ASL camps and stuff. Like I said before, some of them are interested but a majority of them gave me a dirty look and said "No" before giving me a chance to explain. Then, they wave me off like I am some bug. I just leave it at that and then I go back and ask their chidlren's teachers why they said no. Their teachers told me that they dont want their children learning sign language , period. I was taken back... it is like I can sense this ugly attitude from those parents and some of those oral-deaf ed teachers. U have to be there to see it to understand what I mean. Then later on, some of those teachers tell me that they wont be bringing their deaf students to my class because their parents requested it. I was like why? They said that their parents dont want their kids around my kids cuz they use sign language. WTF????

So, my students ask me why they cant talk to the other deaf kids. What am I supposed to say? It is just so wrong. I do not take something like this lightly. That teaches discrimination to those kids and my kids feel rejected or that they are not good enough. It is wrong...That is another aspect of oral deaf ed that I dislike.

Maybe some of you accept that or want to see it from the parents' sides. That's fine but I just cant do that to the children and I couldnt believe those teachers allow it to happen. It is insane!

I have a long list of different situations that occurred relating to discrimination against sign language and deaf kids but I hope u and others get what I am trying to say.

 

[jillio]

Have the child teach them sign? Their child do not know sign language to begin with. I think there is a misunderstanding so let me start over...

I work at public schools during the summertime for summer school with my students from my school because the state wont fund a summer program at our school so all of our students go back to their local schools during the summer for summer school. We, teachers, are assigned to those different schools working with our students from our school. What I was saying that while working at those public schools, we meet oral deaf kids who go to those public schools year round. Ok...those kids meet my students who use ASL and they become fascinated with signing and ask questions. I ask their teachers (oral only deaf ed teachers) about them signing and their teachers tell me that their parents dont want their kids learning sign for fear of interfering with their spoken language development (another misconception that never ceases to drive me nuts) so sometimes I see their parents. So, I go up to them and introduce myself and tell them that their children are interested in learning sign language and give them brochures about ASL camps and stuff. Like I said before, some of them are interested but a majority of them gave me a dirty look and said "No" before giving me a chance to explain. Then, they wave me off like I am some bug. I just leave it at that and then I go back and ask their chidlren's teachers why they said no. Their teachers told me that they dont want their children learning sign language , period. I was taken back... it is like I can sense this ugly attitude from those parents and some of those oral-deaf ed teachers. U have to be there to see it to understand what I mean. Then later on, some of those teachers tell me that they wont be bringing their deaf students to my class because their parents requested it. I was like why? They said that their parents dont want their kids around my kids cuz they use sign language. WTF????

So, my students ask me why they cant talk to the other deaf kids. What am I supposed to say? It is just so wrong. I do not take something like this lightly. That teaches discrimination to those kids and my kids feel rejected or that they are not good enough. It is wrong...That is another aspect of oral deaf ed that I dislike.

Maybe some of you accept that or want to see it from the parents' sides. That's fine but I just cant do that to the children and I couldnt believe those teachers allow it to happen. It is insane!

I have a long list of different situations that occurred relating to discrimination against sign language and deaf kids but I hope u and others get what I am trying to say.

I understand exactly what you are saying, shel. I think the difference here is that we are very child centered, and some people are very parent centered. My concern is the child's needs, just as your concern is the child's needs. The practice you have described teaches a child not just to have a wrong attitude toward ASL and signing deaf, but to be ashamed of their own deafness, as well. Where does that attitude come from. It is implicitly given through parental attitudes. Once again, the focus is on the ears and the mouth of the deaf child, and how successfully they have been taught to hide their deafness, rather than on the child as a holistic being. Defitcit thinking rather than a strengths based approach.

 

[shel90]

I understand exactly what you are saying, shel. I think the difference here is that we are very child centered, and some people are very parent centered. My concern is the child's needs, just as your concern is the child's needs. The practice you have described teaches a child not just to have a wrong attitude toward ASL and signing deaf, but to be ashamed of their own deafness, as well. Where does that attitude come from. It is implicitly given through parental attitudes. Once again, the focus is on the ears and the mouth of the deaf child, and how successfully they have been taught to hide their deafness, rather than on the child as a holistic being.

I am so strong in the child-centered approach when it comes to socio-emotional issues, academics, and pychologically. I wish others were too. *sighs*

 

[GalaxyAngel]

Umm...you scroll up and read what you said:



Jackie was merely stating that DoubleTrouble's son was implanted at 11 months old...HOW could she "ask" her son first before going ahead with surgery?

DoubleTrouble asked her son NOW - who is at 12 or 13 years old probably, how he feels and tells how her son is doing with the CI, how her family accepting that her son was implanted.

Im not here agrue w/her..

Really break my heart 11 mos old.. too young have implant.. anyway!
(shudders)

 

[lovezebras]

Im not here agrue w/her..

Really break my heart 11 mos old.. too young have implant.. anyway!
(shudders)

You shudder when you hear (no pun intended) that a baby is being implanted, let's say your baby was born with something that would hinder their life in the long term scheme of things...like missing an organ or partially blind would you not fix it to not have your child go thru hard times learning a bit different from everyone else. I'm sure some people may be mad that their parents got them ci when they were really young, but that's life. They could get mad at them when they're older for not saying how come you didn't fix it. People always have things to complain about and thats never going to change. And just because people are proud of deaf after accepting it and/or growing up hoh or deaf doesn't mean at one point in their life they didn't wish it was otherwise. I dont regret being hoh but sometimes i wish i could hear things like i use to. Personally, if i was born profoundly deaf, i would be happy that my parents did all they could for me to receive everything to my fullest potential in life. Not to say that people who dont get implanted are bad or that asl and ha's or no oral or whatever method the parent chooses.

It's one's preference to what they want their child to grow up in. Don't say its horrible for someone to implant their child.
im not bashing non-implanted babies or people who only use asl or people who are asl/oral or any deaf/hoh person just my personal opinion on the matter.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Umm...you scroll up and read what you said:



Jackie was merely stating that DoubleTrouble's son was implanted at 11 months old...HOW could she "ask" her son first before going ahead with surgery?

DoubleTrouble asked her son NOW - who is at 12 or 13 years old probably, how he feels and tells how her son is doing with the CI, how her family accepting that her son was implanted.

I guess you saw how Galxy Angel got upset because I caught her in mistruth. Double Tree did say that her son was implant at 11 months I am not sure how her 11 month old she yes mom implant me.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Im not here agrue w/her..

Really break my heart 11 mos old.. too young have implant.. anyway!
(shudders)

So you agree with double tree when you thought she implanted her son at 11 years old but now that you know it was 11 months old you don't agree. If double tree has implanted her son at 11 years old he would not have success he now has.

 

[jillio]

So you agree with double tree when you thought she implanted her son at 11 years old but now that you know it was 11 months old you don't agree. If double tree has implanted her son at 11 years old he would not have success he now has.

Are you referring to doubletrouble?

As you don't have a crystal ball that foretells the future, it is impossible to determine what level of success any child would have had without an implant. To make that claim is to assume that a child cannot be as successful without an implant as with an implant. You have stated that your daughter was a late implant recipient, and yet you also state that her success is because of her implant. That is very contradictory.

 

[jillio]

You shudder when you hear (no pun intended) that a baby is being implanted, let's say your baby was born with something that would hinder their life in the long term scheme of things...like missing an organ or partially blind would you not fix it to not have your child go thru hard times learning a bit different from everyone else. I'm sure some people may be mad that their parents got them ci when they were really young, but that's life. They could get mad at them when they're older for not saying how come you didn't fix it. People always have things to complain about and thats never going to change. And just because people are proud of deaf after accepting it and/or growing up hoh or deaf doesn't mean at one point in their life they didn't wish it was otherwise. I dont regret being hoh but sometimes i wish i could hear things like i use to. Personally, if i was born profoundly deaf, i would be happy that my parents did all they could for me to receive everything to my fullest potential in life. Not to say that people who dont get implanted are bad or that asl and ha's or no oral or whatever method the parent chooses.

It's one's preference to what they want their child to grow up in. Don't say its horrible for someone to implant their child.
im not bashing non-implanted babies or people who only use asl or people who are asl/oral or any deaf/hoh person just my personal opinion on the matter.

But, the point here is that it is not necessary to implant in order to give a child born profoundly deaf the opportunity to achieve to their fullest potential. There are many, many profoundly deaf individuals who were born deaf that have accomplished wonderful things. Where the problem lies is when it is stated that a child implanted with CI will achieve greater things than a child not implanted with a CI. Or that a child implanted with a CI has more opportunity, or an added advantage over the child not implanted with CI. Or that the CI is the foundation of that child's accomplishments. The bashing and the disrespect go both ways. To state that a child who has a CI has better oral skills and more opportunity than a deaf child who hasn't been implanted, without ever hearing the non-implanted child speak, portrays that attitude of superiority that so many find offensive. That is not to say that it isn't the parents' choice. If you choose to implant your child, fine. But having made that choice does not mean that you have made a choice that confers a superior status on your child. You have exercised an option....nothing more.

 

[lovezebras]

i never meant to say it was necessary to implant a baby who is profoundly/severely deaf. I meant that if a parent wishes to implant their baby because they think that is best, then so be it. People (hearing, deaf, hoh or otherwise) should support their decision even tho there will be people who will say it's "horrible to implant a child so young", if it was that horrible, doctors wouldn't be doing it to babies period. I'm not for or against a baby having a ci but whatever the parent chooses is their business.

The main point i was trying to make is that people shouldn't get so worked up about ci or no ci or ha no ha or OMG the baby is only a year old you can't do surgery on a young girl/boy like that...surgery is done everyday, people take risks themselves and for their children. And if they really don't like it they can sue their parents later for battery under tort law for not giving consent...well at least in canada.

 

[jillio]

i never meant to say it was necessary to implant a baby who is profoundly/severely deaf. I meant that if a parent wishes to implant their baby because they think that is best, then so be it. People (hearing, deaf, hoh or otherwise) should support their decision even tho there will be people who will say it's "horrible to implant a child so young", if it was that horrible, doctors wouldn't be doing it to babies period. I'm not for or against a baby having a ci but whatever the parent chooses is their business.

The main point i was trying to make is that people shouldn't get so worked up about ci or no ci or ha no ha or OMG the baby is only a year old you can't do surgery on a young girl/boy like that...surgery is done everyday, people take risks themselves and for their children. And if they really don't like it they can sue their parents later for battery under tort law for not giving consent...well at least in canada.

I did not think that you were saying it was necessary. Sorry if I gave you that impression. I was just trying to explain that the attitude of superiority portrayed by some in regard to CI is just as responsible for the argument as is the objection to infant implantation by others.

 

[LadySekhmet]

But, the point here is that it is not necessary to implant in order to give a child born profoundly deaf the opportunity to achieve to their fullest potential. There are many, many profoundly deaf individuals who were born deaf that have accomplished wonderful things. Where the problem lies is when it is stated that a child implanted with CI will achieve greater things than a child not implanted with a CI. Or that a child implanted with a CI has more opportunity, or an added advantage over the child not implanted with CI. Or that the CI is the foundation of that child's accomplishments. The bashing and the disrespect go both ways. To state that a child who has a CI has better oral skills and more opportunity than a deaf child who hasn't been implanted, without ever hearing the non-implanted child speak, portrays that attitude of superiority that so many find offensive. That is not to say that it isn't the parents' choice. If you choose to implant your child, fine. But having made that choice does not mean that you have made a choice that confers a superior status on your child. You have exercised an option....nothing more.

Great point.

 

[jillio]

Great point.

 

[TheIronQueen]

Are you referring to doubletrouble?

As you don't have a crystal ball that foretells the future, it is impossible to determine what level of success any child would have had without an implant. To make that claim is to assume that a child cannot be as successful without an implant as with an implant. You have stated that your daughter was a late implant recipient, and yet you also state that her success is because of her implant. That is very contradictory.

The earlier one is implanted with the CI, the more time they have to work with the device. It is not like flipping on a switch three weeks after the surgery. CI's have more success rates if they are given as soon as possible. It's not a rush to make the child more "normal" but it's a rush to make sure the child/adult has the most out of their device.
People can be successful without CI's, that is true. However, you do not know her son like she, his MOTHER does, and you would not go to the ends of the earth for this child. When parents choose CI's for their babies/children/teens, they do not "force." I was 17 when I was considered a candidate. My parents did NOT force me. It took them fifteen years to be comfortable with the idea of a CI. It was my choice, and they supported me wholeheartedly, even giving up most of their retirement money for MY benefit because they love me. My parents and whole family are hearing and never had any contact with the deaf world. It's ridiculous, are parents torturing their children when they give them glasses at the age of two if their vision is extremely impaired? Is it torture to give your blind baby new retinas? Blind people are just as capable as deafies to be successful because we are all intelligent creatures. If you are going to use the argument that deaf people are just as good as everybody else (which, THEY ARE), then every other disability/problem that doesn't limit one's mental abilities has to be under that category.
What about that child in India that was born with 8 legs? Were her parents taking away her "identity" by having them removed?
Deafness is not an identity for everyone. I accept and am fine with my being deaf, it is a part of who I am, but it is not WHO I am.
Trying to define a baby's identity is just as bad as accusing parents of trying to make their baby's identity with a CI.
Stop attacking deaf and hearing parents who implant their babies. They are doing what they feel is best for their child! It isn't an easy decision, ever. The reality is that this world is mostly run on the basis that anybody you pass on the street can hear. It's sad, but it's the truth.

 

[jillio]

The earlier one is implanted with the CI, the more time they have to work with the device. It is not like flipping on a switch three weeks after the surgery. CI's have more success rates if they are given as soon as possible. It's not a rush to make the child more "normal" but it's a rush to make sure the child/adult has the most out of their device.
People can be successful without CI's, that is true. However, you do not know her son like she, his MOTHER does, and you would not go to the ends of the earth for this child. When parents choose CI's for their babies/children/teens, they do not "force." I was 17 when I was considered a candidate. My parents did NOT force me. It took them fifteen years to be comfortable with the idea of a CI. It was my choice, and they supported me wholeheartedly, even giving up most of their retirement money for MY benefit because they love me. My parents and whole family are hearing and never had any contact with the deaf world. It's ridiculous, are parents torturing their children when they give them glasses at the age of two if their vision is extremely impaired? Is it torture to give your blind baby new retinas? Blind people are just as capable as deafies to be successful because we are all intelligent creatures. If you are going to use the argument that deaf people are just as good as everybody else (which, THEY ARE), then every other disability/problem that doesn't limit one's mental abilities has to be under that category.
What about that child in India that was born with 8 legs? Were her parents taking away her "identity" by having them removed?
Deafness is not an identity for everyone. I accept and am fine with my being deaf, it is a part of who I am, but it is not WHO I am.
Trying to define a baby's identity is just as bad as accusing parents of trying to make their baby's identity with a CI.
Stop attacking deaf and hearing parents who implant their babies. They are doing what they feel is best for their child! It isn't an easy decision, ever. The reality is that this world is mostly run on the basis that anybody you pass on the street can hear. It's sad, but it's the truth.

Perhaps you need to go back and familiarize yourself with my posts. I do not "attack" parents who choose to implant their children. I support parental choice in this matter. What I do not support is parents of implanted children stating that their children are superior to those that are not implanted.

Comparing deafness to blindness is fallicious. The whys and wherefores of the fallicous nature of this argument has been explained in numerous posts over time.

You received your implant at the age of 17, and have stated that you were fully involved in the decision. Therefore, your experience does not, in any way, parrallel that of early infant implantation.

I'm glad that you feel your parents have gone above and beyond their duty. However, there are also children whose parents have chosen not to implant that feel their parents have gone above and beyond their duty in addressing that child's needs. Likewise, there are those who have been implanted that feel that their needs were not fully addressed. And those that have not been implanted that feel their needs have not been addressed.

Where exactly, did you see me state that I know the child you refer to better than his mother?

Perhaps you should make certain that you know exactly what my position is prior to making recommendations for what I should, and should not, do.

Likewise, the post I responded to was making a prediction for someone else's child, not thier own child. And it was a prediction that cannot, in any way, be made accurately because there is no comparison basis.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

The earlier one is implanted with the CI, the more time they have to work with the device. It is not like flipping on a switch three weeks after the surgery. CI's have more success rates if they are given as soon as possible. It's not a rush to make the child more "normal" but it's a rush to make sure the child/adult has the most out of their device.
People can be successful without CI's, that is true. However, you do not know her son like she, his MOTHER does, and you would not go to the ends of the earth for this child. When parents choose CI's for their babies/children/teens, they do not "force." I was 17 when I was considered a candidate. My parents did NOT force me. It took them fifteen years to be comfortable with the idea of a CI. It was my choice, and they supported me wholeheartedly, even giving up most of their retirement money for MY benefit because they love me. My parents and whole family are hearing and never had any contact with the deaf world. It's ridiculous, are parents torturing their children when they give them glasses at the age of two if their vision is extremely impaired? Is it torture to give your blind baby new retinas? Blind people are just as capable as deafies to be successful because we are all intelligent creatures. If you are going to use the argument that deaf people are just as good as everybody else (which, THEY ARE), then every other disability/problem that doesn't limit one's mental abilities has to be under that category.
What about that child in India that was born with 8 legs? Were her parents taking away her "identity" by having them removed?
Deafness is not an identity for everyone. I accept and am fine with my being deaf, it is a part of who I am, but it is not WHO I am.
Trying to define a baby's identity is just as bad as accusing parents of trying to make their baby's identity with a CI.
Stop attacking deaf and hearing parents who implant their babies. They are doing what they feel is best for their child! It isn't an easy decision, ever. The reality is that this world is mostly run on the basis that anybody you pass on the street can hear. It's sad, but it's the truth.

GREAT POST agree with you completely