Do you support abortion as

[Jiro]

Just tell me one thing and then I will step back: Is everything depending on the host a parasite? You say yes and I will apologize from you.

again - misleading and broad. Is your family who depends on you as a breadearner a parasite? Is your dog who depends on you for food a parasite?

 

[Jiro]

This is a discussion between a religious group and a person, they are debating on abortion.. Like I said, this subject only exist in abortion discussions. Not in science papers.

What happened in that link is exactly same as what we're doing in here.

 

[jillio]

Ok lets try it together. Both a virus and bacteria live in host, and make it ill. If you use taking common features and ignoring rest as your method yes we can say a fetus is a parasite and a virus is a bacteria.

And a virus and a bacteria also live outside the host, and infact, were alive and thriving when they entered the host. This is not true of a fetus. Therefore, your comparison is not only fallicious, it is scientifically naive.

Parasites are not created by their hosts. Fetus does. I can not show you how a fetus can be created out of the host because all offsprings are created by their parents. Being created by the parent organism makes fetus an offspring not a parasite.

And all offspring are dependent upon the full support of the female body for existence and gestation. That makes its survival parasitic. And please not, before you misquote again, that the word used here was "parasitic", "parasite".

Fetus depends on female body. Also HIV virus depends on human body to survive. HIV virus is not a parasite. Everything depends on host do not fall into category parasite.

HIV exists outside the human body, as well. A fetus doesn't.

Besides that I gave you definitions from official sources, the moment you saw them you ignored it and said think out of the box.

Those aren't official sources, dear.

I gave you all these sources , information, I challenged the scientific validity of your method. Besides that I dont have to prove a fetus is not a parasite because there is no scientific source categorize it as such at the first place. You deny providing sources probably because you couldnt find one yet. This argument is not like you brought all the scientific sources and I am trying to prove otherwise.

And, yet, you still have not been able to cite a single instance in which a fetus existed and was gestated to viability without the full and total support of the mother's body. So you have proven nothing in support of your claim.

Since I gave enough information on the subject for helping other people to make up their mind, there is no need to keep arguing more with petrus. If you bring any real scientific source classifying fetus as a parasite, if you can show everybody here fetuses are considered parasites instead of offsprings, I will read it and respond to that. Otherwise there is no need to keep repeating same thing again and again..

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The proof that is lacking is the support that a fetus is not parasitic. You cannot prove that. Bringing in comparisons of HIV, viruses and bacteria is not support for your claim that a fetus is not parasitic in nature. One has nothing to do with the other, and is merely an attempt to divert. We are discussing the parasitic nature of the fetus. In order to refute that, you will have to provide evidence that a fetus is not totally dpendent upon the host for existence and gestation. It can't be done, and therefore, you cannot support your claim.

 

[Hermes]

You are completely incorrect in that statement. And here's a little grammar tip for you. Saying something is of a parasitic nature is not the same as saying it is a parasite. Stop misquoting in an attempt to support your position.

First time when I started to talk on this topic of parasite I answered Byride's post. He said a fetus is a parasite, you later on supported him saying "Exactly"

Here is the link to post: http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/56700-selective-abortion-10.html#post1095299

Here is your post saying existence of fetus is parasitic: http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/56700-selective-abortion-11.html#post1095404

I gave links to sources explains parasitism and how something that is coming from the parent organism which shares same DNA is not considered parasite or parasitic by science.

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[jillio]

Just tell me one thing and then I will step back: Is everything depending on the host a parasite? You say yes and I will apologize from you.

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We are discussing the parasitic nature of the human fetus. Stick to the topic. Stop trying to divert.

 

[jillio]

This is a discussion between a religious group and a person, they are debating on abortion.. Like I said, this subject only exist in abortion discussions. Not in science papers.

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Read again. It is a tretise on the parasitic nature of the fetus. And discussion of abortion abounds in the scientific literature.

 

[Hermes]

The proof that is lacking is the support that a fetus is not parasitic. You cannot prove that. Bringing in comparisons of HIV, viruses and bacteria is not support for your claim that a fetus is not parasitic in nature. One has nothing to do with the other, and is merely an attempt to divert. We are discussing the parasitic nature of the fetus. In order to refute that, you will have to provide evidence that a fetus is not totally dpendent upon the host for existence and gestation. It can't be done, and therefore, you cannot support your claim.

Examples of HIV and bacteria are used for questioning the method. They are showing your method of generalization produces wrong outcomes when applied to other examples.

I am asking again: Is everything dependent on the host a parasite?

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[jillio]

First time when I started to talk on this topic of parasite I answered Byride's post. He said a fetus is a parasite, you later on supported him saying "Exactly"

Here is the link to post: http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/56700-selective-abortion-10.html#post1095299

Here is your post saying existence of fetus is parasitic: http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/56700-selective-abortion-11.html#post1095404

I gave links to sources explains parasitism and how something that is coming from the parent organism which shares same DNA is not considered parasite or parasitic by science.

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Again, you narrow definitions when it suits your purpose, and you broaden them when it suits your purpose. You still have not been able to prove, through support of a single example, that a fetus can exist and gestate without the total support of a female body.

 

[Hermes]

What happened in that link is exactly same as what we're doing in here.

I provided a link to abortion debate which says fetus is a parasite too.. We know they are out there. We are searching for a science paper which has got nothing to do with abortion. A paper which has no political concerns. We still couldnt find it..

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[Hermes]

Again, you narrow definitions when it suits your purpose, and you broaden them when it suits your purpose. You still have not been able to prove, through support of a single example, that a fetus can exist and gestate without the total support of a female body.

I am giving you the answer you want: No fetus will not survive outside. Does it the only criteria for making something parasitic? If it is, then I am asking again: Are you calling everything that depends on the host parasitic?

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[jillio]

Examples of HIV and bacteria are used for questioning the method. They are showing your method of generalization produces wrong outcomes when applied to other examples.

I am asking again: Is everything dependent on the host a parasite?

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And they are fallicious examples. My method is not generalization at all, but specific. You are attempting to generalize by using examples that are fallicious and invalid.

And again, the question is irrelevent, because we are not discussing "everything", nor even parasites in general. We are discussing the parasitic nature of the fetus. The very fact that you can't stick to the topic, and continue to bring in fallicious and unrelated comaprisons is evidence that you are out of arguments regarding the topic, and in fact, cannot refute the statements made.

 

[jillio]

I provided a link to abortion debate which says fetus is a parasite too.. We know they are out there. We are searching for a science paper which has got nothing to do with abortion. A paper which has no political concerns. We still couldnt find it..

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That doesn't surprise me, given your research techniques.

 

[jillio]

I am giving you the answer you want: No fetus will not survive outside. Does it the only criteria for making something parasitic? If it is, then I am asking again: Are you calling everything that depends on the host parasitic?

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You are not necessarily giving me the answer that I want. You are giving me the answer that is scietifically and medically supportable. If it cannot survive on its own, and is completely and totally dpendent upon the female's body for existence and gestation, then it is parasitic in nature. Its very survival depends upon the survival of the host. It can be destroyed by ingestion of txins by the host. If the host dies, the fetus dies. If it cannot sustain an existence without the host, it is parasitic. What part exactly of that do you not understand?

As a legal proposition, the very legality of abortion was decided on just this scientific and medical fact.

 

[Hermes]

You are not necessarily giving me the answer that I want. You are giving me the answer that is scietifically and medically supportable. If it cannot survive on its own, and is completely and totally dpendent upon the female's body for existence and gestation, then it is parasitic in nature. Its very survival depends upon the survival of the host. It can be destroyed by ingestion of txins by the host. If the host dies, the fetus dies. If it cannot sustain an existence without the host, it is parasitic. What part exactly of that do you not understand?

As a legal proposition, the very legality of abortion was decided on just this scientific and medical fact.

Nobody falsify your notion by claiming fetus doesnt depend on mother

If everything that depends on the host is not considered parasitic, how are we saying fetus is? Just by depending its feature of depending and being fed on mother? Because I brought you sources saying something needs to be from a different kind if it is going to be considered parasitic. Fetus shares the same DNA so it is same kind of its parent.

My one millionth time of asking: Can you please provide me a source where any credible science person fits fetus in the table you suggest out of political abortion debates if you can please.

Which other parasitic organisms feed on their own kind? Actually the very idea of being parasitic is using a different (kind) of organism as host. Can you give us source showing us there are other organisms being parasitic to its own kind?

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[Jiro]

Nobody falsify your notion by claiming fetus doesnt depend on mother

If everything that depends on the host is not considered parasitic, how are we saying fetus is? Just by depending its feature of depending and being fed on mother? Because I brought you sources saying something needs to be from a different kind if it is going to be considered parasitic. Fetus shares the same DNA so it is same kind of its parent.

My one millionth time of asking: Can you please provide me a source where any credible science person fits fetus in the table you suggest.

Which other parasitic organisms feed on their own kind? Actually the very idea of being parasitic is using a different (kind) of organism as host. Can you give us source showing us there are other organisms being parasitic to its own kind?

oh god... the more you speak, the more it becomes hopeless. You stubbornly cling onto ONE small thing OUT of a big picture about parasite and parasitic nature - ".... 2 or more kinds."

What's there to provide for you? You largely ignored every single scientific and medical explanation. There's nothing left of us for you except a small bit of patience.

 

[jillio]

Nobody falsify your notion by claiming fetus doesnt depend on mother

If everything that depends on the host is not considered parasitic, how are we saying fetus is? Just by depending its feature of depending and being fed on mother? Because I brought you sources saying something needs to be from a different kind if it is going to be considered parasitic. Fetus shares the same DNA so it is same kind of its parent.

My one millionth time of asking: Can you please provide me a source where any credible science person fits fetus in the table you suggest out of political abortion debates if you can please.

Which other parasitic organisms feed on their own kind? Actually the very idea of being parasitic is using a different (kind) of organism as host. Can you give us source showing us there are other organisms being parasitic to its own kind?

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I have supported my claim numerous times. It is now incumbent upon you to show me eveidence that a fetus is not parasitic in nature. You have failed to do so. You have simply posted irrelevent information that has nothing to do with the issue.

 

[jillio]

oh god... the more you speak, the more it becomes hopeless. You stubbornly cling onto ONE small thing OUT of a big picture about parasite and parasitic nature - ".... 2 or more kinds."

What's there to provide for you? You largely ignored every single scientific and medical explanation. There's nothing left of us for you except a small bit of patience.

Exactly. And I am running short on that!

 

[Hermes]

oh god... the more you speak, the more it becomes hopeless. You stubbornly cling onto ONE small thing OUT of a big picture about parasite and parasitic nature - ".... 2 or more kinds."

What's there to provide for you? You largely ignored every single scientific and medical explanation. There's nothing left of us for you except a small bit of patience.

You asked me to bring you sources and definitions. I did that from your favorite sources. National Library of Medicine. The moment I did this was your answer:

Ok Hermes and Cheri and all..... let's put away dictionary, encyclopedia, etc for a moment.....

You put everything that doesnt support you away, and we have seen you losing that small bit of patience before too.. I hope you wont this time.

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[jillio]

You asked me to bring you sources and definitions. I did that from your favorite sources. National Library of Medicine. The moment I did this was your answer:




You put everything that doesnt support you away, and we have seen you losing that small bit of patience before too.. I hope you wont this time.

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When you are actually able to support your position, note will be taken. As of yet, the only thing you have shown is that you are incapable of discussing the subject without constantly attempting to throw in that which is irrelevent and not applicable in order to disquise the fact that you cannot support your claim on the topic. And keep in mind, we asked for sources that were valid to the discussion, not just random sources.

 

[Byrdie714]

It was a silly joke to Jiro, How do you must know how I feel behind the Internet?

And if he had a problem with my post, he is entitle to say so, not you or Jillio. It wasn't quoted to either one of you.

Then why posted it in a public forum?

Nor did it say, "This post is only for Jiro." That is what PM is for. This is an open forum, and any member is entitled to comment on any post made.

That's right......