Do you support abortion as

[Liebling:-)))]

*shake my head * I really don't know what should I say after read the whole thread since my yesterday post. mmmmhhhhh sigh...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

**nodding** Haven't you heard? Pro-choicers are cold, heartless, murderers. Funny how many of us are also mothers, isn't it?

Yes, I know... *sigh* I just cannot beleive after read that some pro-lifers accused pro-choicers as a cold heart, unfeeling, cold, murders, etc... Have you see anything that we (pro-choicers) use those word against pro-lifers?...

All what I want to say is their ignorant!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *shake my head*

 

[Cheri]

Yes, I know... *sigh* I just cannot beleive after read that some pro-lifers accused pro-choicers as a cold heart, unfeeling, cold, murders, etc... Have you see anything that we (pro-choicers) use those word against pro-lifers?...

Oh yes some have quite often, and netrox just said that Pro-life people can be perceived as cold and unfeeling toward women who have abortion, calling them murderers and not all pro-life people had called women who had abortion "murders".

It's a matter of opinion.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No , there wouldnt be any problem if people didnt use the word fetus for hiding from the truth. You call all stages fetus but an embryo is very different than a fetus who was about to born.

It's fact that you would confuse the people if you use those word "baby" instead of "fetus" or "unborn baby" because you lead them beleive that you already have a baby.

You can sacrifice his life for saving yours , but come to think about it you can also do it even after he was born. If there is fire and you run out of the house for saving yourself without picking up your kid, are you murdering him? No. If you want to do it, do it. Sacrifiying another life in order to save yours is same either its a fetus or a kid or your husband. Some people choose their life, some choose their loved ones over their own..

This is a fallacious comparison.

I knew for few days to week after get the sad result from the doctor about my unborn child. It give me time to think about but FIRE? How do I know when the fire comes? *scratch my head* Fire alway come suddenly... like accident...

I choose to stay alive for my family sake over a fetus because my family NEED me. I consider it as a selfish to decide for a fetus over my children to end my life. It's terrible to leave children feel unwanted and unlove to know that I choose to save fetus over my children to end my life...

There is no difference between a 8 months old fetus and 1 months old infant. The only difference is their size. Baby keeps growing in the mother, but he keeps growing when he is out of the mother too. Thats being said you are still calling 8 months old fetus because he is still inside. I know they do not abort 8 months old fetus , but I am pointing you how we hide behind the words for feeling ourselves better.

Interesting... your own word at other thread...

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Selective abortion.

*scratch my head*

Today there are fetuses born premature as early as 23 weeks. They can be kept alive. So they are actually babies, they just need to grow further and become stronger in order to survive out of care. If baby is 23 weeks old in mothers womb you see it as a fetus, and consider not fully developed to be an infant. If he was born premature, you consider it as a baby and cherish him. They are the same thing. Words and definitions do not make them two different realities. So use any word you want to but know whats really there in real , physical world.

The fact is: Rare fetuses were being survived after 24 weeks. Most fetuses were being survived after 30 weeks.

Again, fetus mean is INSIDE of mother's womb and baby mean is OUTSIDE of mother's womb, no matter how many months before 9 months. If fetus is outside of mother's womb as a surivor then is baby... If dead fetus is outside of mother's womb then remain as a fetus because fetus was already dead in mother's womb.

Thats being said if you want to act based on definations, there is all kind of them exist on this earth. I can give you text definations which doesnt consider dark skinned people human. Claims they are not mentally developed enough to be treated like humans. Should we act on it? No, we look at them, we see them they are as human as any other person, we ignore such definition only reflects its writers point of view which protects his own agenda and we act on reality.

Use the definition is the fact... we can't ignore the fact or law because it's reality... Fetus/unborn baby is inside mother's womb is reality, not baby... the word of newborn, baby or infant is outside of womb is reality.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Because it doesn't make no differences, an infant goes through the same human life cycle stage, the way a fetus would go through, An newborn's eyes cannot yet fully focus at close range- does that make a newborn less of a human being? when they are infants they learned how to use their body, how to express their emotions, they're still developing.

Fetuses are not born yet. It's undeveloped and unready to go out into the world.

It doesn't mean after the birth of a baby-- the development is completed--they have a long way to go.

Yes, of course!!!

And we STILL develop as long as we are alive... The development NEVER stop.. it stops when we are dead.



Anyway, from human embyro to fetus is development and then out of mother's womb as human being development............

 

[Liebling:-)))]

exactly and the pro-lifers can't even argue on that one.

keep abortion--safe and legal!

*amen*

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Never heard of people burying miscarried fetuses. I seriously doubt they were proper or formal burials if people do bury their miscarried fetuses.

Do you mean http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/bethanyf.jpg ? If yes, I never heard about this either.

Most miscarriage fetuses go toilet when they bleed a lot... most is too late for the doctor to save fetus from miscarriage... (the doctor saved some of my friends from miscarriage)... I find interesting if it's really true that they official bury miscarriage fetuses as a legal way... It's new to me because I know most buried between 5 and 9 months old fetuses... My good friend buried 6 months old fetus. I know from her that the doctor asked pregnant mothers what they should do with fetuses before prepare something... funeral arrangement or go to scientist... but with miscarriage fetus?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

"We all" You're again speaking for everyone, while you are the only one asking for a source. And I found it, while you were too lazy to search for it.

Mothering Magazine Miscarriage Article: Carrying On



It was in Mothering magazine just like I said.

It's interesting to read this link but it's not official like few months (between 5 and 8 or 9 months old fetuses).

 

[Hermes]

I knew for few days to week after get the sad result from the doctor about my unborn child. It give me time to think about but FIRE? How do I know when the fire comes? *scratch my head* Fire alway come suddenly... like accident...

I choose to stay alive for my family sake over a fetus because my family NEED me. I consider it as a selfish to decide for a fetus over my children to end my life. It's terrible to leave children feel unwanted and unlove to know that I choose to save fetus over my children to end my life...

You see you call it your unborn child. Its human psychology , you still see it as a child too if its your own.

I also didnt say keep the baby and die if there is a complication. If you die , baby will die too , so there is no point of sending you both to death right? But if one of you can survive, then its a decision. You can risk your life or sacrify it or you may not. I am not making a judgement. I am saying these decisions are made in different circumstances too.

Interesting... your own word at other thread...

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Selective abortion.

*scratch my head*

My own words other thread at says its called embryo first two months. Yes its called fetus by medical definition afterwards. I didnt say calling it fetus is wrong. Also yes embryo becomes fetus after two months. There isnt any post I say otherwise. I said there is nothing wrong calling it fetus if people are not going to hide behind it. In or out of the mothers womb, a 7 months of fetus is still the same thing. It already has all the features what makes it a baby. He just needs more time to grow and he will keep growing once he is out of his mother too. Thats why they are called premature babies if they born early. When you say its ok to abort fetus, you are also saying its ok to abort it 8.5 months old. But a couple posts above you said it should be ok in first 12 weeks unless there is a life threat. As long as people see 10 weeks of fetus is not same as 30 weeks old , there is nothing wrong using the medical name of it.

Call it anything you want to. Whatever you name it, its just a name, and name is just a symbol right? People usually detach themselves from the subject while making a discussion. But it becomes different when comes to their own. You already called it your unborn child too. Because it was yours.

-

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Not unfeeling here...I have stated before and will state again, I do not like the idea of abortion myself and I wouldnt get one but I am realistic and know that it wouldnt be right of me to force what I think of it on others and I support everyone's right to choose whether it is abortion or not. Gotta be careful here on how you label people cuz many pro-choicers do have feelings too..just believe that everyone has the right to the choice about their own bodies.

Yes I second that.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You see you call it your unborn child. Its human psychology , you still see it as a child to.

Yes I use those word "unborn baby" because I am expect to keep a baby but it's unexpect for me to pick my decision on my life or my unborn baby... I choose my life for my family's sake over a fetus... It's really fact is a fetus but it's mother's nature feeling when they are exciting to have a baby....

Yes its called fetus by medical definition. I didnt say calling it fetus is wrong. Also yes embryo becomes fetus after two months. There isnt any post I say otherwise. I said there is nothing wrong calling it fetus fs people are not going to hide behind it. In or out of the mothers womb, a 7 months of fetus is still the same thing. It already has all the features what makes it a baby. He just needs more time to grow and he will keep growing once he is out of his mother too. When you say its ok to abort fetus, you are also saying its ok to abort it 8.5 months old. But a couple posts above you said it should be ok in first 12 weeks unless there is a life threat. As long as people see 10 weeks of fetus is not same as 30 weeks old , there is nothing wrong using the medical name of it.

Call it anything you want to. Whatever you name it, its just a name, and name is just a symbol right? People usually detach themselves from the subject while making a discussion. But it becomes different when comes to their own. You already called it your unborn child too. Because it was yours.

-

I asked you a question because you consider fetus as the same as infant at earlier which I disagree to... until you mentioned "not development yet" at other thread... It's an exact what I am trying to say... It's human development from embyro to fetus in mother's womb and then continue development from infant to adult after outside of mother's womb.

 

[jillio]

It's fact that you would confuse the people if you use those word "baby" instead of "fetus" or "unborn baby" because you lead them beleive that you already have a baby.



This is a fallacious comparison.

I knew for few days to week after get the sad result from the doctor about my unborn child. It give me time to think about but FIRE? How do I know when the fire comes? *scratch my head* Fire alway come suddenly... like accident...

I choose to stay alive for my family sake over a fetus because my family NEED me. I consider it as a selfish to decide for a fetus over my children to end my life. It's terrible to leave children feel unwanted and unlove to know that I choose to save fetus over my children to end my life...





Interesting... your own word at other thread...

AllDeaf.com - View Single Post - Selective abortion.

*scratch my head*




The fact is: Rare fetuses were being survived after 24 weeks. Most fetuses were being survived after 30 weeks.

Again, fetus mean is INSIDE of mother's womb and baby mean is OUTSIDE of mother's womb, no matter how many months before 9 months. If fetus is outside of mother's womb as a surivor then is baby... If dead fetus is outside of mother's womb then remain as a fetus because fetus was already dead in mother's womb.



Use the definition is the fact... we can't ignore the fact or law because it's reality... Fetus/unborn baby is inside mother's womb is reality, not baby... the word of newborn, baby or infant is outside of womb is reality.

Exactly, Leibling. Development of a embryo or a fetus is prenatal. Development over the lifespan is postnatal. It has absolutely nothing to do with being able to focus eyes. It is a matter of being able to survive independent of a female's body, with a fully developed cardiovascular system that is able to sustain the fetus without support from the mother's body, with a fully developed respiratory system that is able to provide the oxygen necessary for survival, and with a digestive systemthat is able to receive and use nutrition from a source other than a direct physical connection to a female's bloodstream. The anti-choice crowd simply ignores biological and scientific fact in favor of uninformed, emotional ignorance.

 

[Cheri]

The anti-choice crowd simply ignores biological and scientific fact in favor of uninformed, emotional ignorance.

That's not true, I support biological. Read my other post before making assumptions about people in general who are anti-choice.

 

[jillio]

You see you call it your unborn child. Its human psychology , you still see it as a child too if its your own.

I also didnt say keep the baby and die if there is a complication. If you die , baby will die too , so there is no point of sending you both to death right? But if one of you can survive, then its a decision. You can risk your life or sacrify it or you may not. I am not making a judgement. I am saying these decisions are made in different circumstances too.



My own words other thread at says its called embryo first two months. Yes its called fetus by medical definition afterwards. I didnt say calling it fetus is wrong. Also yes embryo becomes fetus after two months. There isnt any post I say otherwise. I said there is nothing wrong calling it fetus if people are not going to hide behind it. In or out of the mothers womb, a 7 months of fetus is still the same thing. It already has all the features what makes it a baby. He just needs more time to grow and he will keep growing once he is out of his mother too. Thats why they are called premature babies if they born early. When you say its ok to abort fetus, you are also saying its ok to abort it 8.5 months old. But a couple posts above you said it should be ok in first 12 weeks unless there is a life threat. As long as people see 10 weeks of fetus is not same as 30 weeks old , there is nothing wrong using the medical name of it.

Call it anything you want to. Whatever you name it, its just a name, and name is just a symbol right? People usually detach themselves from the subject while making a discussion. But it becomes different when comes to their own. You already called it your unborn child too. Because it was yours.

-

No, it is not psychology. Psychology is a scientific discipline that fully recognizes the difference between fetal development, and development over the lifespan.

And yes, a name is a symbol. And by calling something other than what it actually is, you are attempting to attach a symbolic meaning that does not exist for that particular thing. You can call an apple an orange, but it doesn't mean that an apple becomes an orange just because you have called it one. It is still an apple. And you can call an embryo or a fetus a baby. But it doesn't make it it. It does not become a baby until it has completed the birth process and becomes a neonate. The terms are there for a reason. They differentiate between stages. Juswt because you ignore scientific fact doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It simply means that you are choosing to ignore reality.

 

[jillio]

That's not true, I support biological. Read my other post before making assumptions about people in general who are anti-choice.

As long as you continue to call a fetus anything other than what it is, ignore the fact that a fetus cannot survive without a physical attachment to a female body, and that dependence upon the female body is necessary for fetal development and without it there would be no fetus, you are ignoring biological and scientific fact.

And I have read your other posts. It is evident from doing so that you not only don't support scientific, biological, medical fact, you have no understanding of such, either.

 

[jillio]

You see you call it your unborn child. Its human psychology , you still see it as a child too if its your own.

I also didnt say keep the baby and die if there is a complication. If you die , baby will die too , so there is no point of sending you both to death right? But if one of you can survive, then its a decision. You can risk your life or sacrify it or you may not. I am not making a judgement. I am saying these decisions are made in different circumstances too.



My own words other thread at says its called embryo first two months. Yes its called fetus by medical definition afterwards. I didnt say calling it fetus is wrong. Also yes embryo becomes fetus after two months. There isnt any post I say otherwise. I said there is nothing wrong calling it fetus if people are not going to hide behind it. In or out of the mothers womb, a 7 months of fetus is still the same thing. It already has all the features what makes it a baby. He just needs more time to grow and he will keep growing once he is out of his mother too. Thats why they are called premature babies if they born early. When you say its ok to abort fetus, you are also saying its ok to abort it 8.5 months old. But a couple posts above you said it should be ok in first 12 weeks unless there is a life threat. As long as people see 10 weeks of fetus is not same as 30 weeks old , there is nothing wrong using the medical name of it.

Call it anything you want to. Whatever you name it, its just a name, and name is just a symbol right? People usually detach themselves from the subject while making a discussion. But it becomes different when comes to their own. You already called it your unborn child too. Because it was yours.

-

And you are not hiding from scientific, biological and medical fact by calling a fetus a baby? Get real!

 

[Cheri]

As long as you continue to call a fetus anything other than what it is, ignore the fact that a fetus cannot survive without a physical attachment to a female body, and that dependence upon the female body is necessary for fetal development and without it there would be no fetus, you are ignoring biological and scientific fact.

What are the chances does a newborn have that it can survive without the mother's milk or formula? without food, the newborn dies. You are ignoring the whole picture. A Fetus is no different than a newborn, or an infant, or a toddler.

 

[Hermes]

And you are not hiding from scientific, biological and medical fact by calling a fetus a baby? Get real!

Ok I ignore all those facts and call it a baby, you ignore them all and call it a parasite.. I think we both need to live with that. :P

-

 

[Jiro]

Ok I ignore all those facts and call it a baby, you ignore them all and call it a parasite.. I think we both need to live with that. :P

-

fetus is of a parasitic nature

 

[Hermes]

fetus is of a parasitic nature

I answered you here Jiro: http://www.alldeaf.com/topic-debates/56700-selective-abortion-12.html#post1096153

You prefer following dictionary definitions, and I posted all definitions from National Medical Library.