District files appeal against deaf student

[jag]

.

I did think about mentioning MSAD to them, will on Sunday. I still wish my parents had sent me there when I was a kid. The kids in my school were very mean, although elementary school wasn't that bad. Junior high (7th grade only) was horrible; 8th & 9th grade I was in a private Christian school that nearly landed me in special education in 10th grade. I had other problems in hs with student support services, too, but that's another story.

I think You said their daughter is in elementry? If they want to check out MSAD one good way to do that would be to sign her up for the summer enrichment program. that's usually 2 weeks in june and is open to all deaf/hoh kids in MN. That's when we first became aquainted with them.

As for your trip through middle school, one of my daughters friends bil decided to teach, after some student teaching he said he would do younger kids, the attitude of the middle school students was that bad. Also my oldest had a heck of a time from about 6th grade until 11th. And this was just a small school where the kids were together from k-12. If 'they' decide you're the outcast there's not alot you can do about it but hope your family is supportive enough to get you through that.....either that or hope they have enough money to try a different placement. (that wasn't us tho, we aren't that 'rich')

Have a nice day.

 

[jag]

".....children with implants do not have hearing, speech, or language skills that are equivilent to those of hearing peers, and thus, are likely to miss some amount of inforamtion in the classroom. A similar argument would apply to informal learning situaiton (both explicit and incidental) prior to the school years as well as during them. It may be that the advantage seen in studies by Toblin, Spencer, and their colleagues for children who use sign language and speech in school with support from sign language interpreters is a consequence of those children having greater access to classroom discourse with 2 modes of communication rather than one."
>>>>>>>

I'd take this to mean that using services like CART would also be good for learning in a classroom if you relie on spoken language and are hoh or use a CI. "and thus, are likely to miss some amount of inforamtion in the classroom." It does seem to back up Jackies request for equal access, which is the basis of this whole topic.

 

[jag]

Why only oral language? Why not both?

Another thing, by encouraging more and more children to be put in oral-only programs will endanger many jobs that deaf people hold as teachers, teacher aides and counselors. Ironic that the education of the deaf will put deaf people out of jobs simply because they cant "talk". :roll:

You expect families with deaf children to make decisions based on your ability to get a job?

 

[jag]

Or that increased auditory input means that they are more "hearing" then deaf.
Althou I don't have too much experiance with CIs, CI kids are (best case) functionally hoh. I am hoh. Have been hoh, oral and mainstreamed my entire life. Although there are good things about having oral skills and good parts about being mainstreamed, I really honestly think that the experts who push "a mainstream" healthy normal life, are really out of touch with the downsides of going that way.
Hoh kids have been mainstreamed and oraliszed to the max. Yet our acheivement levels haven't been all that impressive. Sure there are some students who have done well, but overall as a group hoh acheivement isn't that great. Maybe its time to stop automaticly assuming that oral speech and mainstream existance should be the be all and end all of a dhh kids' existance

I am (or was) 'hoh'. I was never in any mainstream programs since I was just in my local school. (neither was my hoh daughter) My guess is you probably got even more out of your HA's then I did since you think you did so well with them. Not me. I CAN through experience again repeat that what comes through from a CI is nothing like what you get from a HA. I function much better as hoh with my CI (and I am still under 90% in sentence recognition) then I ever functioned with a HA. Just my expericence. The two are completely different technologies and both have thier place.

BTW, if you are really reading what Jackie is writing, she is a teacher in an ECSE program or an EI program. She says that she does prod parents toward sign language withing a year and never more then two of working with thier child if that child is not making progress.

While I myself see nothing wrong with using both from the beginning, it does seem that when the child actually is the one who chose method (and many parents here started with signs) by dropping the sign certain people refuse to believe that it was the childs choice.

No one is the same, neither my daughter nor myself regret going to our local schools as one of the normal population, we fit in just fine. Many of these kids coming up will do just fine, some will not. I do not need you to continue to lamant about how all kids with HA's or CI's need this that or the other. And how you and other teachers of the deaf/hoh have all the right answers. All are individuals.

Parental involvement can make a hugh difference in whatever method they choose for their child.

 

[jillio]

".....children with implants do not have hearing, speech, or language skills that are equivilent to those of hearing peers, and thus, are likely to miss some amount of inforamtion in the classroom. A similar argument would apply to informal learning situaiton (both explicit and incidental) prior to the school years as well as during them. It may be that the advantage seen in studies by Toblin, Spencer, and their colleagues for children who use sign language and speech in school with support from sign language interpreters is a consequence of those children having greater access to classroom discourse with 2 modes of communication rather than one."
>>>>>>>

I'd take this to mean that using services like CART would also be good for learning in a classroom if you relie on spoken language and are hoh or use a CI. "and thus, are likely to miss some amount of inforamtion in the classroom." It does seem to back up Jackies request for equal access, which is the basis of this whole topic.

Services like CART are useful in providing a transcript of all verbal communication. There are times when CART is the most appropriate accommodation, as I have stated previously. However, if a child is lagging behind in language development, and therefore, unfamiliar with vocab and jargon used in many classroom situations, it is not as useful. There is no transliteration, simplu transcription. Also, as the student using CART is required to read from a computer screen, if their literacy skills ar not excellent, they will be unable to keep up with the pace of much of theoral material delivered in real time. And while they are provided access to another students questions and input during class time via CART, this accommodation does not facilitate them participating in a discussion themselves. CART provides access through English, speech and sign in the classroom provides access through 2 languages. It would follow, therefore, that if a child has been in an oral environment all throughout their childhood and elementary school years, they would arrive at the high school level with significant delays in language usage. These delays in an of themselves would reduce the effectiveness of services such as CART. And it has been shown that the gaps between deaf students' performance (including those with CI) increases as grade level increases because the foundation in langauge has not been laid allowing them to move forward.

And, yes, parental involvement does make a difference. However, when parental involvement was controlled for, it was found that it was not the variable making the difference in academic achievement. Gaps in performance continued to exist despite high levels of parental involvement. And that is becasue, even though a parent can provide a linguistically rich environment, and do all of those things that will provide the most opportunity and assistance for a child, they can't, no matter hao much effort they exert, actually process the information for the child. So that a rich oral placement is still a placement that limits the amount of information available.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Nope, go back and read it. I said "extremely limited." And could you please answer the question regarding why oral language has to be the primary focus in CI kids? I posted it on pg. 35, I think, or maybe 36.

Jillo you did say "extremely limited" in my exposure to other methods but your exact words were, "And personally, I agree with Pek. Jackie experience is extremely limited, as she herself has admitted that she has not been exposed to any method of education other than oral."

This is what you said that I have not been exposed to any other methods except for oral. That is not correct. You said that I admitted to not being exposed to other methods, I have never said. I have said that I am not an expert in other methods.

I agree that I am not verse enough in other methods but I have been exposed to other methods and tell parents to seek out information of these other methods from people who are expert in them.

I never metion before but I also have knowledge on CUED because one of the teachers I went through my master's program had a CUED speech interpeter. I also have a cousin who was in a CUED speech program for a short time.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Post # 96, to start.

I am in no way discounting this parent's frustration and pain, nor am I pointing fingers or laying blame. But I would like to point out that this situation is no different from the situation that occurs on a daily basis within the educational system. Parnets agree to oral educational placement on the mistaken belief that it will provide their child with a better educaiton and more opportunity to integrate into the oral world. It has exactly the opposite effect, and in actuality, the child is deprived of a complete education an d is handicapped far more than deafness is responsible for. Opportunity is denied, not extended in these situations. And this is the main reason that shel, dd, and many other posters to this forum object so strongly to a strictly oral philosophy. It is truly a shame that our deaf students continue to go through these situations, and are continuing to be denied adequate education. What is even more of a shame is that we can hear these stories, and still be so ethnocentric and narrow minded that we do not learn from them and continue to make the same mistakes over and over.

This is post #96 but I am not sure how this post states that I admitted to not having an exposure to other methods besides oral. This is a post you posted not me.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

You are very welcome. I apologize for snapping, but I keep running into people who don't want to make the effort to even look the article up after I have provided all the information necessary for them to do so. I find it a bit ridiculas that they would expect me to post an entire 10 page research article simply for their convienience, especially when I ahve made it easy for them to locate it.

No problem, I really didn't mean anything by it when I asked if that was the completel article. Actually I do know that I can pull articles of college internet site, but what I was thinking of doing is going to CSUN. It is about 30 minutes from my home, I am sure they have all the journals there.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Yes, but what about those kids who will be delayed b/c they haven't picked up speech? Yes, your way doesn't create severe spoken language delays, like in the old days.........but it still does create significent delays.
But you do have one thing right. The debate now is pretty much over which language should be a dhh kid's first language. Its very indivdual. Some kids with CIs can pick up speech only with minimal speech therapy or private AVT. Others need to attend specialized therapists or schools and so on.
Why can't someone send their kid to an oral program part time, and ALSO send their kid to a TC/ASL program? That way they'd get the best of both worlds.

Your idea could work if there was a program like that. Where say the morning was dedicated to oral language in a good program and there was someone at home to support the oral language being developed at school and then say in the afternoon there was a TC/ASL program. But I am not sure about anywhere else there isn't such a program out here. Again the main focus needs to be in developing oral language.

And I think that oral first kids should learn ASL EARLY. Like most hoh kids can pick up speech really easily. They should be exposed to ASL so that they can use it as a helpful tool if they want it. Too many hoh kids have just been brushed off into the hearing world. I think most hoh kids could benifit from preschool and kindergarten instruction. I mean god.........we have parents lining up their kids to send them to upper crust schools where another language is used in insturction.
That is what you and rick and cloggy don't get whatsoever. The oral philosophy pathologizes Sign. It sees Sign as a "crutch" but not a honest to god full fledged language of its OWN!

You are wroong I have never said that signing is a crutch, I have said that if my kids are able to be oral they will have more opportunities in life. I completely undestand and agree that ASL is a complete language on its own. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Deaf kids (except for peri and post lingal) need to experiance agressive intervention in the form of BOTH ASL and speech so that they aren't behind at all! Imagine that............we could raise kids who are fluent in BOTH ASL and English (and yes, I mean SPOKEN language)
Despite what the oral experts tell you, VERY FEW Deafies are anti-speech.
Speech is a good tool to have. Its just like the tool of being fluent in English in South Africa or India is a good tool to have, even if your first language is Afrikaans or some Hindu dialect.

Deafsyke you need to get your story straight. I know that ASL is a complete language base. I also know that if I would have exposed my children to sign language when they were toddlers they would not have developed such a strong oral base. I also know that I am glad my children have learned some sign language this has helped to exposed them to more deaf people. And if I had to do everything over again, the only thing I would change is not having my daughter diagnosis at a younger age.

As oral parents we heard how mean the Deaf community can be to us oral families and I was scared to expose my children to that hatred but I am so happy to say that the Deaf people we have met are very accepting of my children and our way of life. The only hatred that I have come across has been on this site.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Why do you continue to use class warfare for your arguments. Oh yeah cause the 'rich' like to use all the new toys. ( I believe that Rick and Jackie ARE working class, could be wrong but seems that way)

Jag, I am not sure about rick but we are now maybe slightly above working class if that. But I was raised in a working class and I am actually the first one in my family to graduate from college.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

I am (or was) 'hoh'. I was never in any mainstream programs since I was just in my local school. (neither was my hoh daughter) My guess is you probably got even more out of your HA's then I did since you think you did so well with them. Not me. I CAN through experience again repeat that what comes through from a CI is nothing like what you get from a HA. I function much better as hoh with my CI (and I am still under 90% in sentence recognition) then I ever functioned with a HA. Just my expericence. The two are completely different technologies and both have thier place.

BTW, if you are really reading what Jackie is writing, she is a teacher in an ECSE program or an EI program. She says that she does prod parents toward sign language withing a year and never more then two of working with thier child if that child is not making progress.

While I myself see nothing wrong with using both from the beginning, it does seem that when the child actually is the one who chose method (and many parents here started with signs) by dropping the sign certain people refuse to believe that it was the childs choice.

No one is the same, neither my daughter nor myself regret going to our local schools as one of the normal population, we fit in just fine. Many of these kids coming up will do just fine, some will not. I do not need you to continue to lamant about how all kids with HA's or CI's need this that or the other. And how you and other teachers of the deaf/hoh have all the right answers. All are individuals.

Parental involvement can make a hugh difference in whatever method they choose for their child.

That is what I find the key to how a successful a child is, is parent involvement no matter what type of child, not matter what type of program.

I can tell you fom the short years of teaching experience I have that within the first week of school before I meet the parents I can tell you what type of parents they are.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Services like CART are useful in providing a transcript of all verbal communication. There are times when CART is the most appropriate accommodation, as I have stated previously. However, if a child is lagging behind in language development, and therefore, unfamiliar with vocab and jargon used in many classroom situations, it is not as useful. There is no transliteration, simplu transcription. Also, as the student using CART is required to read from a computer screen, if their literacy skills ar not excellent, they will be unable to keep up with the pace of much of theoral material delivered in real time. And while they are provided access to another students questions and input during class time via CART, this accommodation does not facilitate them participating in a discussion themselves. CART provides access through English, speech and sign in the classroom provides access through 2 languages. It would follow, therefore, that if a child has been in an oral environment all throughout their childhood and elementary school years, they would arrive at the high school level with significant delays in language usage.

You are making assumptions Jillo, so just because a child was raised orally that means they are language delayed. With my daughter she is less then a year delayed in language. As we all know in a regular education classroom not all the kids are at grade level. I use to do RSP at a regular education school site and in a typical class you had kids ranging from 2 years below grade to a year above grade. So my daughter fits right in the middle there.

These delays in an of themselves would reduce the effectiveness of services such as CART. And it has been shown that the gaps between deaf students' performance (including those with CI) increases as grade level increases because the foundation in langauge has not been laid allowing them to move forward.

And, yes, parental involvement does make a difference. However, when parental involvement was controlled for, it was found that it was not the variable making the difference in academic achievement. Gaps in performance continued to exist despite high levels of parental involvement. And that is becasue, even though a parent can provide a linguistically rich environment, and do all of those things that will provide the most opportunity and assistance for a child, they can't, no matter hao much effort they exert, actually process the information for the child. So that a rich oral placement is still a placement that limits the amount of information available.

My daughter would be the perfect candidante for CART, because she is reading close to grade level and once she is able to read everything doing on in class then she will be able to participate.

 

[Cloggy]

..........
As was previously suspected, you have no intention of making an effort to inform yourself.

Wrong assupmtion, but that's nothing new....

.......... I did what I needed to do to find the information for myself. As a reasonable,t hinking adult it would be assummed that you would be cpcable of doing the same. Your refusal to do so only indicatges that your motivation is not to discuss the issues, but simply to divert the issue.

Refusal... again, wrong assumption.... still nothing new....

..........
I have no interest in continuing a discussion with someone who isn;t even cpable of making minimal effeort to support their position. When you find the gumption to actually make an effort to learn, rather than spouting off at the mouth, get back to me.

What's a "gumption" ??...
OK.... "gumption n. Informal. Boldness of enterprise; initiative or aggressiveness. Guts; spunk. Common sense."

YES!!

OK, back to you....

 

[Cloggy]

You are very welcome. I apologize for snapping, but I keep running into people who don't want to make the effort to even look the article up after I have provided all the information necessary for them to do so.

I know, really annoying...

For example...

Another interesting article.....

Language and theory-of-mind development in prelingually deafened children with cochlear implants: a preliminary investigation
Catrin E Macaulay, Ruth M Ford *
University of Wales Swansea, Singleton Park, Swansea SA2 8PP, Wales, UK

Could you provide a link to the article please?

Or, here,

From this article..

Theory-of-mind development in oral deaf children with cochlear implants or conventional hearing aids
Candida C. Peterson11University of Queensland1University of Queensland
C.C. Peterson, School of Psychology, University of Queensland, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia 4072; Email: candi@psy.uq.edu.au
More food for thought

Once again, I'd really appreciate a link, because I need to know what control group was used in comparison for the results obtained. I know that you don't think that is pertinent information, but it really is necessary to interpret the results. Results are all you have provided.

Didn't someone say "The citation at the beginning in APA format tells you what you need to know to locate it.nnAnd everyone can read this one." ....

 

[Cloggy]

I find it a bit ridiculas that they would expect me to post an entire 10 page research article simply for their convienience, especially when I ahve made it easy for them to locate it.

Not everyone has access to libraries and professional journals. Some people are parents at home with their children, or working.
YOu might have the luxury of a universaty library, but not everyone reading along here.....
You could email the article without problems... but you would rather accuse people of being lazy and incompetent....

That is not my first article, nor do you have to pay for it. The citation at the beginning in APA format tells you what you need to know to locate it.nnAnd everyone can read this one.
You got any research to refute it with?

And if the article is so easy to find and one does not need to pay for it, why not put a link to it...

You're great at showing off how much you read, where you find your stuff and copying APA formats; sharing information is not developed yet with you. Must be some competition going on around you...

For me, I can connect to the internet at home. That's a long way from sitting on some high-speed university database with free access to any article you want...
Thanks for sharing .... (and not just with me...)

 

[pek1]

I think You said their daughter is in elementary? If they want to check out MSAD one good way to do that would be to sign her up for the summer enrichment program. that's usually 2 weeks in june and is open to all deaf/hoh kids in MN. That's when we first became aquainted with them.

As for your trip through middle school, one of my daughters friends bil decided to teach, after some student teaching he said he would do younger kids, the attitude of the middle school students was that bad. Also my oldest had a heck of a time from about 6th grade until 11th. And this was just a small school where the kids were together from k-12. If 'they' decide you're the outcast there's not alot you can do about it but hope your family is supportive enough to get you through that.....either that or hope they have enough money to try a different placement. (that wasn't us tho, we aren't that 'rich')

Have a nice day.

jag,

I was in Sioux Falls, SD yesterday and arrived back this morning at 3:30 so I was unable to see them in church, as I was exhausted. I have a foster cousin that tried teaching, but in his student teaching, decided that after spending four years to become a teacher, not to become one.

My mother was supportive and fought for me, but what can she do since she didn't have a driver's license at the time and her own family putting her down about everything, not only during her growing up years, but into adulthood as well? She wanted me to attend MSAD, but my dad said, "costs money" as if it cost an arm and a leg. As long as he had money for deer hunting, that's all that mattered. He even told my mom that if she hadn't gone back to work when she did (stayed at home for 15 years), we would have lost everything. Now that she runs the checkbook (or did before her heart attack), he finally realized (after almost 50 years of marriage) she was the one who should have handled the money to begin with. He told her nothing and would never even discuss anything related to the bills with her or what was in the bank.

As for this discussion, jag, I am still very concerned that deaf and hoh kids (and adults) are STILL put on the back burner and these sports programs and all that crap comes before us. I've had dreams of what it's going to be like when I become an attorney and I can assure you, all of us will put people like Jackie out of work and barred from employment anywhere until they comply. I won't hesitate to represent cases that will jam the courts and force a lot of cases into litigation . . . basically, creating such a backlog that these schools will start screaming 'enough' and help will be there "card blanche." Yes, I believe in equal rights, but, what I'm seeing is that these people with sports teams and universities with blank checks for sports think, "just as long as we're covered, we don't give a damn about anything or anyone else." These people, under my system enacted into law, will be required to go through sensitivity training, just like one does for sexual harrassment now in the workplace and all that money will be distributed equally. If one person suffers without help, we all suffer.

I'm totally in favor of jamming and creating backlog so blank checks will appear for deaf and hoh kids/adults. They can get the help they need right now, not whenever. "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" will also include deaf/hoh kids, regardless of the parents income or social status. Unlike what it is today.

If you're a Republican, you won't like me. I don't want you to. Just hand over the money for deaf and hoh kids/adults to get us help we need so we can compete (with you) on a level playing field. I promise I won't let you win!

 

[jag]

jag,

My mother was supportive and fought for me, but what can she do since she didn't have a driver's license at the time and her own family putting her down about everything, not only during her growing up years, but into adulthood as well? She wanted me to attend MSAD, but my dad said, "costs money" as if it cost an arm and a leg. ]

Sad thing is that attending the state school for the deaf wouldn't have cost him anything beyond some spending money and such. While he may have had to pay for the gas to get you there at that time basically the state payed for pretty much everything else. MSAD is a state school. There is a deaf school in either Mineapolis or st paul and I 'think' that one is more of a private one so I don't know much about that.

[
As for this discussion, jag, I am still very concerned that deaf and hoh kids (and adults) are STILL put on the back burner and these sports programs and all that crap comes before us. I've had dreams of what it's going to be like when I become an attorney and I can assure you, all of us will put people like Jackie out of work and barred from employment anywhere until they comply. I won't hesitate to represent cases that will jam the courts and force a lot of cases into litigation . . . basically, creating such a backlog that these schools will start screaming 'enough' and help will be there "card blanche." Yes, I believe in equal rights, but, what I'm seeing is that these people with sports teams and universities with blank checks for sports think, "just as long as we're covered, we don't give a damn about anything or anyone else." These people, under my system enacted into law, will be required to go through sensitivity training, just like one does for sexual harrassment now in the workplace and all that money will be distributed equally. If one person suffers without help, we all suffer.

I'm totally in favor of jamming and creating backlog so blank checks will appear for deaf and hoh kids/adults. They can get the help they need right now, not whenever. "NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND" will also include deaf/hoh kids, regardless of the parents income or social status. Unlike what it is today.

If you're a Republican, you won't like me. I don't want you to. Just hand over the money for deaf and hoh kids/adults to get us help we need so we can compete (with you) on a level playing field. I promise I won't let you win!

I do think kids need someone to speak up for their rights under IDEA and ADA. As for the sports stuff, well those kids in high school are now paying for the priviage to play. you won't completely get rid of that. But if you feel the need to fight that go ahead. I find nothing wrong with parents working to get the access for their kids. I do get rather aggravated when people excuse their parents for not following through, for giving in to the status quo and then doing nothing but gripe because they didn't get what they needed. Unfortunately for you your father seemed to think sending you to a state school would require a tuition. I think after IDEA came into being any tuition was to be paid by the home district. I do feel that parents either need to go through the mediation, then due process if necessary or shut up. (I know but I really believe we are responsible as parents to, we are the ones who have to work to get what our children need) Parents need to become informed and not except everything the 'educated' staff tell them. Parents need to eduate themselves on how to go through and IEP meeting and exactly how to work at getting what they need. (parents also need to read up on the delphi technique which schools train staff in, this technique is used to lead parents into excepting things the way the school offers them). So first before you can become a good lawyer for families you do have to get out there and educate the parents on how to go through an IEP and how to document so their case can succeed.


Schools will do as little as possible for any child under an IEP or 504. BTDT.

Being a Republican has nothing to do with going after what my disabled child is entitled to. I HAVE pushed for things she is entitled to for equal access. Believe me it wasn't fun.

 

[pek1]

Sad thing is that attending the state school for the deaf wouldn't have cost him anything beyond some spending money and such. While he may have had to pay for the gas to get you there at that time basically the state payed for pretty much everything else. MSAD is a state school. There is a deaf school in either Mineapolis or st paul and I 'think' that one is more of a private one so I don't know much about that.

I do think kids need someone to speak up for their rights under IDEA and ADA. As for the sports stuff, well those kids in high school are now paying for the priviage to play. you won't completely get rid of that. But if you feel the need to fight that go ahead. I find nothing wrong with parents working to get the access for their kids. I do get rather aggravated when people excuse their parents for not following through, for giving in to the status quo and then doing nothing but gripe because they didn't get what they needed. Unfortunately for you your father seemed to think sending you to a state school would require a tuition. I think after IDEA came into being any tuition was to be paid by the home district. I do feel that parents either need to go through the mediation, then due process if necessary or shut up. (I know but I really believe we are responsible as parents to, we are the ones who have to work to get what our children need) Parents need to become informed and not except everything the 'educated' staff tell them. Parents need to eduate themselves on how to go through and IEP meeting and exactly how to work at getting what they need. (parents also need to read up on the delphi technique which schools train staff in, this technique is used to lead parents into excepting things the way the school offers them). So first before you can become a good lawyer for families you do have to get out there and educate the parents on how to go through an IEP and how to document so their case can succeed.


Schools will do as little as possible for any child under an IEP or 504. BTDT.

Being a Republican has nothing to do with going after what my disabled child is entitled to. I HAVE pushed for things she is entitled to for equal access. Believe me it wasn't fun.

The deaf school is in Saint Paul and, I believe, is a charter school. It started last decade and is still going strong!

I wish that my mother had taught me how to advocate for myself instead of how it was. I thought I did tell her how tough it was in high school with student support services, but evidentally, she didn't understand it at the time.

I said the part about being a Republican because, despite the ADA (passed under a GOP president), Democrats side with disability issues and they (GOP) don't. Sometimes I wonder if it's just red tape and politics, not to mention bs high enough for waders, just to see how hard the parents/students are willing to push. If I had known about it at the time, I would have shoved and been the top, instead of accepting what was given.

 

[jag]

I said the part about being a Republican because, despite the ADA (passed under a GOP president), Democrats side with disability issues and they (GOP) don't. Sometimes I wonder if it's just red tape and politics, not to mention bs high enough for waders, just to see how hard the parents/students are willing to push. If I had known about it at the time, I would have shoved and been the top, instead of accepting what was given.

Interesting take. I was told by an older man who's daughter with DS is now oh she must be somewhere over 30 that when congress passed the law in 1975 they 'promised' the states that they'd fund it up to 40% or something like that. In reality the democrat congresses never provided state funding over 5% I think he said. (if i wasn't on slow dial up actual reseach would be faster and easier, lol) It wasn't until like 1995 or so that the funding to states was increased (under a republican congress with a democrat president) funding is still well below the 40% promised all those years ago.
We now have a democrat legislature and they even control the senate, so how much have they talked about funding for sped? Are they going to try to get closer to that 40%?


Now having said that, if i have time I'll see if I can find the article or whatever that discussed funding. We should all know by now that a president proposes and congress decides. Sure the president can ask for things but congress controls the purse strings, and ALL those egotistical people want their name on as many buildings or whatever as they can get or so it seems. We have the bridge for a few people in Alaska (that I believe was a republican proposal, but is now not going through) the big dig that leaks alot from what i've read (a democrat proposal) etc etc. Everyone says that No child left behind is all Bush's bill. Not really, he stated what he would like to have in it, then compromised with TK and others to get part of what he wanted. Be relistic none of them are really working for us.

 

[shel90]

And in the meantime, we are experimenting on deaf kids. Do you truly find that acceptable?

When I read that post, I immediately thought lab rats. Why do we deaf people are put under experimental approaches in the education setting while hearing people arent. I really think that is very unfair. We have rights too. Geez!