District files appeal against deaf student

[deafdyke]

Jag,
the thing that you don't get is that what Jackie is doing is pretty much akin to those folks who claim "ADD" so they can get disabilty checks from the government.
Her daughter ALREADY is doing really really well. Why does she need Dolce and Gabbanna accomondations when she is doing really well? I mean it just kinda seems like Jackie is the type who's "OMG! New technology! It MUST be better then what's already out there."
If her daughter did not have total and complete access, she would not be acheiving as well as she is.
I acknowledge that the mainstream can be a good place. I just think that its overidealized. There are kids who do well, but there are just as many who don't do as well..........and by mainstream I mean regular school regular classes.
I know you've been there and done that. But so have I..........and I'm not that old. I also have many friends who have their sped kids in the system.......and I can tell you that the majority of them have a hell of a time trying to get their kids good accomondations.
And yes, her daughter has ASL in her toolbox........but I was under the impression that it was more social, rather then being able to use it fluently 100%.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

"Pretty good" signing skills are hardly sufficient to function as a terp. And oral by definition, is the use of no sign language. So wouldn't that mean, since your daughter and son have opted to learn sign language, that they do not fucntion as oral deaf?

No it doesn't mean that they do not function as oral deaf, what it means is that they have some close friends that are not oral so they have learn sign language to communicate with these friends. You are right pretty good signing skills doesn't mean they should serve as interpeters what it means is that these parents do not have the signing skills they need to commuicate with their children.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jag,
the thing that you don't get is that what Jackie is doing is pretty much akin to those folks who claim "ADD" so they can get disabilty checks from the government.
Her daughter ALREADY is doing really really well. Why does she need Dolce and Gabbanna accomondations when she is doing really well? I mean it just kinda seems like Jackie is the type who's "OMG! New technology! It MUST be better then what's already out there."

DEAFDYKE, WOULD YOU PLEASE LISTEN AND ACKNOWLEDGE WHY MY DAUGHTER DOES SO WELL IN SCHOOL. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I NEED TO TELL YOU; ARE YOU JUST SO HARD HEADED YOU JUST WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.
MY DAUGHTER DOES WELL IN SCHOOL BECAUSE I PRE AND POST TEACH HER NOT BECAUSE SHE HAS FULL ACCESS. I AM A TEACHER AND I KNOW TEACHERS IN THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THE ONES CLOSE BY SO I KNOW WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT. WE ALSO HAVE AN EXTRA COPY OF THE TEXT BOOKS AT HOME. IN THE SUBJECTS THAT SHE HAS THE MOST TROUBLE WE HAVE BOUGHT THE TEACHER'S BOOKS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK. WHY ARE YOU SO CLOSED MINDED.


If her daughter did not have total and complete access, she would not be acheiving as well as she is.

AGAIN SHE IS DOING WELL IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE DO AT HOME NOT BECAUSE OF WHAT THE SCHOOL IS DOING, CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. AS HER PARENT IT IS NOT MY JOB TO TEACH HER. HOW MANY STUDENTS OUT THERE HAVE A PARENT LIKE ME THAT CAN AND WILL RETEACH, THIS DOESN'T MEAN SHE HAS EQUAL ACCESS IT MEANS THAT WE MAKE UP FOR IT AT HOME. THE OTHER THING MY CHILDREN HAVE ABOVE AVERAGE IQs, SO THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE UP WHAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE ACCESS TO, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO FULL ACCESS, IT JUST MEANS THEY HAVE TO WORK AT IT HARDER.

I acknowledge that the mainstream can be a good place. I just think that its overidealized. There are kids who do well, but there are just as many who don't do as well..........and by mainstream I mean regular school regular classes.
I know you've been there and done that. But so have I..........and I'm not that old. I also have many friends who have their sped kids in the system.......and I can tell you that the majority of them have a hell of a time trying to get their kids good accomondations.
And yes, her daughter has ASL in her toolbox........but I was under the impression that it was more social, rather then being able to use it fluently 100%.

YES AND YOU ARE RIGHT HER SIGNING SKILLS ARE NOT REALLY ASL BUT A COMBINATION OF WHAT HER FRIENDS USE. AND YES IT IS MORE SOCIAL.
IS IT MY FAULT THAT YOUR FRIENDS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENSURE THAT THEIR CHILD GETS THE ACCOMMDATIONS THEY NEED. I WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO HELP THEM.
DEAFDYKE, I REALLY THINK SOMETHING BAD MUST HAVE HAPPEN TO YOU TO BE SO HARD HEADED AND MEAN. I AM JUST TRYING TO ENSURE THAT MY CHILDREN HAVE EQUAL ACCESS, IF YOU CANNOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND IT IT IS YOUR FAULT.

 

[pek1]

You tell her, Jackie! Is it just me or are a lot of people here having things repeated and repeated to them and still they don't get it? I haven't been reading every post, because at least two educators are talking to each other; one is a hearie and the other deaf.

Deafdyke, cool it, huh?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

You tell her, Jackie! Is it just me or are a lot of people here having things repeated and repeated to them and still they don't get it? I haven't been reading every post, because at least two educators are talking to each other; one is a hearie and the other deaf.

Deafdyke, cool it, huh?

Thanks Pek, I know my daughter is going well in school but I know that if we would stop what we do at home she would be failing. Then maybe if she was failing we could all agree that she wasn't having equal access so then maybe we can all agree she needs CART except I would never let my daughter feel like failure if there was something I could do to stop it.

DEAFDYKE, I am serious I would be more then happy to help your friends get the right accommdations for their children. I have sit in many IEPs both for oral and signing kids plus other children with different disabilities.

 

[jillio]

No it doesn't mean that they do not function as oral deaf, what it means is that they have some close friends that are not oral so they have learn sign language to communicate with these friends. You are right pretty good signing skills doesn't mean they should serve as interpeters what it means is that these parents do not have the signing skills they need to commuicate with their children.

Oral deaf do not use sign in any situation, socially or educationally. That's why they are called oral. Get it? And you said that your daughter terped for her friends in social situations, not terped for families.

 

[jillio]

YES AND YOU ARE RIGHT HER SIGNING SKILLS ARE NOT REALLY ASL BUT A COMBINATION OF WHAT HER FRIENDS USE. AND YES IT IS MORE SOCIAL.
IS IT MY FAULT THAT YOUR FRIENDS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENSURE THAT THEIR CHILD GETS THE ACCOMMDATIONS THEY NEED. I WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO HELP THEM.
DEAFDYKE, I REALLY THINK SOMETHING BAD MUST HAVE HAPPEN TO YOU TO BE SO HARD HEADED AND MEAN. I AM JUST TRYING TO ENSURE THAT MY CHILDREN HAVE EQUAL ACCESS, IF YOU CANNOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND IT IT IS YOUR FAULT.

And your pre and post teaching is a consequence of the method you have chosen. It is one of those things that you just have to accept as part of the deal. You made the decision, now live with the consequences. That is what you seem to refuse to understand. You chose the oral method, you chose the mainstreamed placement. One of the consequences is that she is having the difficulties that she is. Accept responsibility for that. If your decision requires that you make a little extra effort to help her oputside the classroom,then that is your responsibility as a parent.

 

[jillio]

Thanks Pek, I know my daughter is going well in school but I know that if we would stop what we do at home she would be failing. Then maybe if she was failing we could all agree that she wasn't having equal access so then maybe we can all agree she needs CART except I would never let my daughter feel like failure if there was something I could do to stop it.

DEAFDYKE, I am serious I would be more then happy to help your friends get the right accommdations for their children. I have sit in many IEPs both for oral and signing kids plus other children with different disabilities.

And are you licesnsed to serve as an educational advocate?

 

[jillio]

You tell her, Jackie! Is it just me or are a lot of people here having things repeated and repeated to them and still they don't get it? I haven't been reading every post, because at least two educators are talking to each other; one is a hearie and the other deaf.

Deafdyke, cool it, huh?

Maybe you should take the time to read all of the posts, pek. What isn't being understood here is that when a parent makes such a decision as oral method and mainstreamed placement because it supposedly "offers more opportunity", they cannot back up when the child reaches high school age and start to complain about the downside of their decision. If Jackie's daughter requires pre and post teaching at home due tothe fact that she is missing out on classroom spoken language, then that is a consequence of the decision her mother made for her. The parent made the decision, and now it is time for the parent to deal with the consequences. If she wants to complain about the added work it causes for her, then perhaps she should have thought about that prior to becoming such an out spoken advocate for the oral method. A lot of kids, both hearing and deaf, require added assistance to grasp classroom material to the fullest. That doesn't mean they don't have equal access...it simply means that they need extra help to grasp what has been presented to them. As a parent, ytou provide that extra help. Its called responsibility. She wanted an oral child, she insisted on an oral child, now deal with the consequences of the decision. Period.

 

[jillio]

YES AND YOU ARE RIGHT HER SIGNING SKILLS ARE NOT REALLY ASL BUT A COMBINATION OF WHAT HER FRIENDS USE. AND YES IT IS MORE SOCIAL.
IS IT MY FAULT THAT YOUR FRIENDS DO NOT KNOW HOW TO ENSURE THAT THEIR CHILD GETS THE ACCOMMDATIONS THEY NEED. I WOULD BE MORE THEN HAPPY TO HELP THEM.
DEAFDYKE, I REALLY THINK SOMETHING BAD MUST HAVE HAPPEN TO YOU TO BE SO HARD HEADED AND MEAN. I AM JUST TRYING TO ENSURE THAT MY CHILDREN HAVE EQUAL ACCESS, IF YOU CANNOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND IT IT IS YOUR FAULT.

You are skipping questions, again!

 

[jazzy]

I would worry too..nothing wrong with that but to say that CSDR is bad cuz of the dorms is kinda using what happened there 2 or 3 years ago to put the blame on everyone who works there. Many teachers and day staff dont associate with dorm staff on a daily basis so they dont have control over what happens at the dorms. Same thing at my work..if something happened at the dorms and the public blamed me and other teachers for that, it would suck cuz I would be at home minding my own business and not have a clue to what is going on at the dorms so it wouldnt be fair to include us in the blame .


I just hope CSDR adopted the same strict policies that my work has adopted.

My expeirence at CSDR had nothing to do with dorms, it had to do with some education, teachers, counsleors and kids.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Oral deaf do not use sign in any situation, socially or educationally. That's why they are called oral. Get it? And you said that your daughter terped for her friends in social situations, not terped for families.

Maybe that is your definition of oral deaf but that is not our definition and maybe this is why there is such a division between oral deaf and Deaf culture. Yes, my daughter has also interpeterdfor her firends when they are out in social situations suchs stores and restaurants. What difference does it make between interpeting for families and in stores it still is social situations. I would think this would make people happy in the Deaf culture that these Deaf teenagers are getting their needs met in a public situation.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

And your pre and post teaching is a consequence of the method you have chosen. It is one of those things that you just have to accept as part of the deal. You made the decision, now live with the consequences. That is what you seem to refuse to understand. You chose the oral method, you chose the mainstreamed placement. One of the consequences is that she is having the difficulties that she is. Accept responsibility for that. If your decision requires that you make a little extra effort to help her oputside the classroom,then that is your responsibility as a parent.

This has nothing to do with accepting the consequences. I accept them and do them becauise I love helping my children. But just becauise I do these things at home, her school setting is not giving her equal access. Can you guys just admit this.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

And are you licesnsed to serve as an educational advocate?

No I am not a licesned advocate, I do not need to be licesnsed to help parents. As you know parents are able to bring whoever they want to an IEP. I have helped many parents get ready for the IEPs and have attend many IEPs.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Maybe you should take the time to read all of the posts, pek. What isn't being understood here is that when a parent makes such a decision as oral method and mainstreamed placement because it supposedly "offers more opportunity", they cannot back up when the child reaches high school age and start to complain about the downside of their decision. If Jackie's daughter requires pre and post teaching at home due tothe fact that she is missing out on classroom spoken language, then that is a consequence of the decision her mother made for her. The parent made the decision, and now it is time for the parent to deal with the consequences. If she wants to complain about the added work it causes for her, then perhaps she should have thought about that prior to becoming such an out spoken advocate for the oral method. A lot of kids, both hearing and deaf, require added assistance to grasp classroom material to the fullest. That doesn't mean they don't have equal access...

So let me understand you correctly you are telling me that my daughter does have equal access to the curriulum. So do your students that have CART did they also have equal access to the curriulum before they got CART and what is the difference between your students and my daughter.

it simply means that they need extra help to grasp what has been presented

She might need help grasping what is being presented (this is where I will help and continue to help even after CART is in place) but she really needs is to know what is being presented.

to them. As a parent, ytou provide that extra help. Its called responsibility. She wanted an oral child, she insisted on an oral child, now deal with the consequences of the decision. Period.

I so happy with the decisions I have made and I know I made the right decisions for my children and if you don't who cares. I will just make that my children do go to college where you are at.

 

[jillio]

Maybe that is your definition of oral deaf but that is not our definition and maybe this is why there is such a division between oral deaf and Deaf culture. Yes, my daughter has also interpeterdfor her firends when they are out in social situations suchs stores and restaurants. What difference does it make between interpeting for families and in stores it still is social situations. I would think this would make people happy in the Deaf culture that these Deaf teenagers are getting their needs met in a public situation.

Well, then your definition is different than any one else. I guess its okay to use your own definitions rather than the ones that are culturally, eductionally, socially, and liguisitically accepted. Because, after all, you are different than everyone else. And that is exactly what I mean when I say your knowledge regarding anything but strict oralism and hearing cultures is extremely lacking. It would make people happy in Deaf culture if these children, including your daughter, were getting their needs met every where. And if your daughter is lacking in sign language skills suffiecient to function as an interpreter, she is acting as a communication mediator, not an interpreter.

 

[jillio]

This has nothing to do with accepting the consequences. I accept them and do them becauise I love helping my children. But just becauise I do these things at home, her school setting is not giving her equal access. Can you guys just admit this.

No. Because she is getting equal access when you figure in the pre and post teaching that you do at home. Many hearing kids need these services as well, but are not eligible for accommodations. It is something a parent does to insure that their child acieves at the highest level possible. If she is functioning at the academic level you claim, then you cannot claim that she is not getting equal access. Don't you get it?

 

[jillio]

No I am not a licesned advocate, I do not need to be licesnsed to help parents. As you know parents are able to bring whoever they want to an IEP. I have helped many parents get ready for the IEPs and have attend many IEPs.

Once again, that would be "liscensed". And yes, parents can bring whomever, not whoever, they want to an IEP meeting. But one would hope that they are bringing those professionals within the field that are liscensed and therefore qualified to provide the assistance they need. And, you have not "attend" IEPs, you have "attended" them.

Please, if you are going to provide an oral environment for not only your own children, but for other people's children as well, you must model proper English. Otherwise, they are not even being exposed to sufficent spoken English to develop minimal skills.

 

[jillio]

I so happy with the decisions I have made and I know I made the right decisions for my children and if you don't who cares. I will just make that my children do go to college where you are at.

That would be, "I am", not "I", made. (no and).....children, don't.... cares?

Syntax of your entire last sentence is off--that would be "I will just make sure", or "I will just make certain", and I do believe that you meant don't, not do. What you said was that you will be certain to send your children to the college where I am employed.

If I were taking someone to the IEP meeting with me, I would certainly want to be sure that they didn;t make errors such as this when attempting to make their wishes known. You are asking for exactly the opposite of what you want. Aren't teachers supposed to be more capable in their language usage than the children they are teaching?

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Well, then your definition is different than any one else. I guess its okay to use your own definitions rather than the ones that are culturally, eductionally, socially, and liguisitically accepted. Because, after all, you are different than everyone else. And that is exactly what I mean when I say your knowledge regarding anything but strict oralism and hearing cultures is extremely lacking. It would make people happy in Deaf culture if these children, including your daughter, were getting their needs met every where. And if your daughter is lacking in sign language skills suffiecient to function as an interpreter, she is acting as a communication mediator, not an interpreter.

Yeah we are different and we are happy being different. We very accepting of people of who they are and want to be. Maybe the way we live our lives has to do with the way I was raised. I took parts of the Mexican culture, parts of the Hungarian culture and parts of the American culture that I liked and that is how my family became the we are.

I have learned we can never please everyone, we just need to be happy with who we are and my family is happy. I am enjoying my children so much now because they would only be in our home for a couple of more years.

Why can't we have our own definition, why do we have to accept our people's definition. we are each very unique each and every one of us. We live in a country that prides themselves on being individuals. This is what makes this country so wonderful.

I like how you stated that my daughter serves as a communication mediator because you are right she is not fluent enough to be an interpeter. When she is communicating with her friends it is a combination of things lip reading, signing, and acting. It is just so fun to see her in that role. I just love it. I love watching with her friends and watching her friends with her and our family. It is just so accepting. They are just so accepting of all their difference. It is amazing.

This is why I love summer. Her friends are always at my home. Just today about 10 of them are coming over. My house is way too big for us but we continue to pay the too big mortageg paid until they are done with high school so that her friends can over and sleep over.