District files appeal against deaf student

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My understanding when Jackie said 'bad' kids was the way the other staff seem to be referring to kids who are having problems with understanding using their CI's. Not that the kid was bad but that their learning wasn't going as it should so that was bad. Oh what the heck, it probably was a poor choice of words on her part but none of us, including you or I are perfect and we all tend to screw up somewhere along the line.

Jag,
You are right I shouldn't have used the word "bad". I used this word because it is what I have heard used. I should not have repeated what I have heard. I have heard about some awful things that happen in the dorm.
 
My understanding when Jackie said 'bad' kids was the way the other staff seem to be referring to kids who are having problems with understanding using their CI's. Not that the kid was bad but that their learning wasn't going as it should so that was bad. Oh what the heck, it probably was a poor choice of words on her part but none of us, including you or I are perfect and we all tend to screw up somewhere along the line.

Jag,
You are right I shouldn't have used the word "bad". I used this word because it is what I have heard used. I should not have repeated what I have heard. I have heard about some awful things that happen in the dorm.

My friend works at the dorm at CSDR (Riverside School for the Deaf) and I have visited there...dont see anything awful happening. My friend and her coworkers tell me about the literacy programs, competitions and field trips they have set up for their students.

Are u talking about abuse? If that is the rumor going around, I would say people need to verify them before jumping on the bandwagon.

People said the same things about the dorms at my work but I have worked with dorm staff there and they are wonderful with the kids. Yes, some make honest mistakes and accidents happen but to go out and hurt, neglect, or whatever is not what they would do. If so, they would be fired on the spot..too many eyes and nobody is allowed to be alone with the children. Same thing goes for CSDR, according to my friend.

Pls verify before u believe what others say. Rumors are famous for becoming bigger and bigger and more dramatic.

I am sure there has been serious incidents at the dorms in the past but it happens at public schools too. What has been showing on the news with all these teachers or kids having sex with each other or abusing each other. It can happen anywhere.

I better warn my friend that she and her coworkers who work at Riverside School for the Deaf are being labeled negatively as allowing terrible things to happen at the dorms. Maybe, I will direct them to this thread and see if they can explain what is going on.
 
No Sh-T Sherlock.



Please show me where I said that every child would succeed the same? Can't I was just stating that it is NOT all doom and gloom and many DO succeed quite well.



You seem to believe that every single school is the same in their dealing with the 'classic' or dhh disablities. Sorry but schools differ quite alot, even among those in one state. Large districts also have schools dealing differently with both the 'classic' and dhh students. BTW, the so called 'classic' disabilities do tend to get treated the same way in deaf schools as they do in the regular schools, that's life. That's also just my experience, but that encompasses those in the school who enjoy 'dealing' with my daughter and those who 'tolerate' dealing with her. All in all she is still teaching the kids tolerance and that not everyone is alike.



Nice to see I'm being repeated. Glad the kids are all getting something out of the soundfields there to.




thought that was what I'd said. ADD/HD or CAPD...etc


Grades done on math facts and english science etc. while they can be 'fudged' to seem better then the student actually performs are much harder to fudge when testing for actual conprehension. Now if we talk about writing papers and such then yeah you're at the teachers mercy.



Just be glad that someone is willing to go the distance to try to get deaf/hoh students who are doing ok better access to the classroom. Without the PARENTS who are willing to spend their TIME and live with the STRESS of fighting for better access the status quo would remain hoh kids being treated like they are mentally impaired. (at least that's what you keep stating)
Good for Jackie.



My understanding when Jackie said 'bad' kids was the way the other staff seem to be referring to kids who are having problems with understanding using their CI's. Not that the kid was bad but that their learning wasn't going as it should so that was bad. Oh what the heck, it probably was a poor choice of words on her part but none of us, including you or I are perfect and we all tend to screw up somewhere along the line.

It's not the point of families being able to have it easier to relocate, it's the point that some JOBS don't allow for families to relocate. And then again there may be more then one child in the family so the decision has to be made taking the whole family into account. Housing costs are the least of the matter.


She said that is what people out there are using to label the deaf kids who get "kicked" out of the public schools and get referred to the deaf schools. I am sure the kids themselves pick up on that and I am sure they do not feel so good about themselves. It is not a right thing to say about them...

I picked up on that attitude from my teachers and whoever else worked with me about those who used sign language and go to deaf schools..I grew up thinking I was superior to them cuz I could "talk" not sign. It is stupid and it should stop if that is the attitude with the director of the special ed dept.
 
My friend works at the dorm at CSDR (Riverside School for the Deaf) and I have visited there...dont see anything awful happening. My friend and her coworkers tell me about the literacy programs, competitions and field trips they have set up for their students.

Are u talking about abuse? If that is the rumor going around, I would say people need to verify them before jumping on the bandwagon.

Yes, it is about abuse. I do know about two specific cases. It is not gossip. At the school district that I work at before I was asked to take part on a case of incident that happen at the dorm. I also know of a friend of my son and things that happen there.

People said the same things about the dorms at my work but I have worked with dorm staff there and they are wonderful with the kids. Yes, some make honest mistakes and accidents happen but to go out and hurt, neglect, or whatever is not what they would do. If so, they would be fired on the spot..too many eyes and nobody is allowed to be alone with the children. Same thing goes for CSDR, according to my friend.

Pls verify before u believe what others say. Rumors are famous for becoming bigger and bigger and more dramatic.

I am sure there has been serious incidents at the dorms in the past but it happens at public schools too. What has been showing on the news with all these teachers or kids having sex with each other or abusing each other. It can happen anywhere.

I better warn my friend that she and her coworkers who work at Riverside School for the Deaf are being labeled negatively as allowing terrible things to happen at the dorms. Maybe, I will direct them to this thread and see if they can explain what is going on.

One of the cases that I know about happen about 3 years ago and the other aout 2 years ago.
 
She said that is what people out there are using to label the deaf kids who get "kicked" out of the public schools and get referred to the deaf schools. I am sure the kids themselves pick up on that and I am sure they do not feel so good about themselves. It is not a right thing to say about them...

I picked up on that attitude from my teachers and whoever else worked with me about those who used sign language and go to deaf schools..I grew up thinking I was superior to them cuz I could "talk" not sign. It is stupid and it should stop if that is the attitude with the director of the special ed dept.


I know that my children do not have the attitude of being superior to their signing friends. My daughter has a set of friends that sign only but are in honors classes. My daughter always thought that these girls were smarter then her because my daughter was manistreamed in regular ed classes while her friends were in honors classes. My son though did ask me once why his friends in the SDC are learning 2nd grade if they were in 7th grade. The other question he has asked me is why are his friends' teachers taking them to a factory to learn about jobs that these teachers should take his friends to different colleges to find out what college they can go to. I have taken my children to all the local colleges so that they can see what is out there for them. They just assume that all parents take their kids to different colleges to see what is out there for them.
 
The fact of the matter remains, that no matter how agressively the oral only method is defended, and no matter how many ways they attempt to divert the subject to prevent answering direct questions, even with allt he accommodations provided through the ADA, deaf students literacy skills are still falling beneath the levels they should be. The decline began with the influx of oralism, and has seen a continued decrease. The scores began to equalize somewhat when early intervention programs utilizing sign language and TC programs gained in popularity, but have seen begun to decline again with the strong push toward complete mainstreaming and the rise in orlaism that correlates with the use of CI in the student population. So defend it all you will, it still has a negative effect on deaf studnet's as a group. One or two successes do not negate the overall negative effects. Perhaps there are those that find this situation acceptable as long as their own child is doing okay, but Ifind it, for deaf children as a heterogenous group, unacceptable.


Jillio when you talk literacy skills you have to remember that literacy skills have fallen for all children in public schools. Public schools basically teach to the middle/lower group of kids, (my dad taught for over 50 yrs so I do have knowledge in the changes that happened during that time) they are so 'afraid' of flunking a child because they might hurt their 'self-esteem' that they are failing all the children.

My oldest wrote a term paper, I read the paper that she wrote during her senior english class 12 yrs ago, even she was surprised that she got an A on it. The wording was that bad, not something that would have been worth an A even when I was in school 19 yrs before that.

Not all deaf/hoh children need to go to the deaf schools, not all deaf/hoh children need to have ASL in their 'toolbox'.

Not all deaf children in ASL deaf schools are literate, and not all those who are illerate are so because they were oral to start with.

Some kids both deaf and not are illerate because of other factors. one being thier parents jsut don't care. another would be that they do have some type of secondary problem, like dyslexia. I have 2 nephews and a great nephew who do have dyslexia, and they read on a elementry level. They stuggle, even though the stratagies they learned in school 'should' have helped them. With the youngest he was lucky that the problem was addressed and he was taken out of a phonetically based reading program and placed in a smaller group with sight words.

One of the problems with deaf children and reading is they to struggle with phonetic reading programs from what the sped teachers I've talked to at the deaf school say. But that is a problem like those with dyslexia where it takes longer then we'd like to decide that this program isn't working.

There is no one way to raise a child, deaf or not. Choices are made either your way or not.

Some will succeed no matter if they are taught your way or not.

Some will do worse whether your way or the other.

Life is not easy.

Just because the students you see coming through your office in college are asking for accomodations which they have never had does not mean they are not or did not do as well as the deaf who were taught using ASL. It does mean that they do know that ADA does give them options to use. Obviously some may need remidial classes, many of their non deaf counterparts need remedial classes and I'm sure that many of their deaf ASL conterparts need remidail classes. That says alot for our educational system, not the students that came through it.
 
She said that is what people out there are using to label the deaf kids who get "kicked" out of the public schools and get referred to the deaf schools. I am sure the kids themselves pick up on that and I am sure they do not feel so good about themselves. It is not a right thing to say about them...

I picked up on that attitude from my teachers and whoever else worked with me about those who used sign language and go to deaf schools..I grew up thinking I was superior to them cuz I could "talk" not sign. It is stupid and it should stop if that is the attitude with the director of the special ed dept.

It's funny that you would decide you were superior to those who couldn't talk. I don't feel superior to those who sign, but then even tho my dad was a teacher and even tho he does not like the way the schools have deteriroated he didn't think of deaf individuals as 'stupid', just different. He being a coach just concidered the deaf school we played as another team to defeat. :)
 
I am sure there has been serious incidents at the dorms in the past but it happens at public schools too. What has been showing on the news with all these teachers or kids having sex with each other or abusing each other. It can happen anywhere.

I better warn my friend that she and her coworkers who work at Riverside School for the Deaf are being labeled negatively as allowing terrible things to happen at the dorms. Maybe, I will direct them to this thread and see if they can explain what is going on.

Actually Shel a well informed is well aware that the potential for abuse is high in a dorm situation. Even with back ground checks on staff their is no guarentee that someone will not take advantage of their child. If you choose to ignore the possiblity that staff at any school or dorm could possibly be abusive then you trust to much.
 
My friend works at the dorm at CSDR (Riverside School for the Deaf) and I have visited there...dont see anything awful happening. My friend and her coworkers tell me about the literacy programs, competitions and field trips they have set up for their students.

Are u talking about abuse? If that is the rumor going around, I would say people need to verify them before jumping on the bandwagon.

People said the same things about the dorms at my work but I have worked with dorm staff there and they are wonderful with the kids. Yes, some make honest mistakes and accidents happen but to go out and hurt, neglect, or whatever is not what they would do. If so, they would be fired on the spot..too many eyes and nobody is allowed to be alone with the children. Same thing goes for CSDR, according to my friend.

Pls verify before u believe what others say. Rumors are famous for becoming bigger and bigger and more dramatic.

I am sure there has been serious incidents at the dorms in the past but it happens at public schools too. What has been showing on the news with all these teachers or kids having sex with each other or abusing each other. It can happen anywhere.

I better warn my friend that she and her coworkers who work at Riverside School for the Deaf are being labeled negatively as allowing terrible things to happen at the dorms. Maybe, I will direct them to this thread and see if they can explain what is going on.

Same here. I never saw anything "horrible" going on in the dorms at St. Rita. Unless you call something like the occasional water balloon fight in the hallway "horrible". Personally, I call that mischieveous.
 
Jillio when you talk literacy skills you have to remember that literacy skills have fallen for all children in public schools. Public schools basically teach to the middle/lower group of kids, (my dad taught for over 50 yrs so I do have knowledge in the changes that happened during that time) they are so 'afraid' of flunking a child because they might hurt their 'self-esteem' that they are failing all the children.

My oldest wrote a term paper, I read the paper that she wrote during her senior english class 12 yrs ago, even she was surprised that she got an A on it. The wording was that bad, not something that would have been worth an A even when I was in school 19 yrs before that.

Not all deaf/hoh children need to go to the deaf schools, not all deaf/hoh children need to have ASL in their 'toolbox'.

Not all deaf children in ASL deaf schools are literate, and not all those who are illerate are so because they were oral to start with.

Some kids both deaf and not are illerate because of other factors. one being thier parents jsut don't care. another would be that they do have some type of secondary problem, like dyslexia. I have 2 nephews and a great nephew who do have dyslexia, and they read on a elementry level. They stuggle, even though the stratagies they learned in school 'should' have helped them. With the youngest he was lucky that the problem was addressed and he was taken out of a phonetically based reading program and placed in a smaller group with sight words.

One of the problems with deaf children and reading is they to struggle with phonetic reading programs from what the sped teachers I've talked to at the deaf school say. But that is a problem like those with dyslexia where it takes longer then we'd like to decide that this program isn't working.

There is no one way to raise a child, deaf or not. Choices are made either your way or not.

Some will succeed no matter if they are taught your way or not.

Some will do worse whether your way or the other.

Life is not easy.

Just because the students you see coming through your office in college are asking for accomodations which they have never had does not mean they are not or did not do as well as the deaf who were taught using ASL. It does mean that they do know that ADA does give them options to use. Obviously some may need remidial classes, many of their non deaf counterparts need remedial classes and I'm sure that many of their deaf ASL conterparts need remidail classes. That says alot for our educational system, not the students that came through it.

You are correct that our entire educational system could do with an overhaul, and that many hearing students are also required to take remedial classes. I stated exactly that in a couple of other posts.

However, deaf students as a group are still testing below hearing students as a group. When you account for lowered scores in the general hearing population, that indicates that the discrepancy still exists between deaf students and hearing students, and that literacy rates are still an issue. Just because hearing literacy rates have fallen does not mean that the discrepancy has disappeared. I agree that the problems are within the system and not with the students.

And I agree that not every child is born with the same innate cpabilities. My concern is that deaf students as a whole are not being educated that allow them to function academically, and thus socially, to the utmost of whatever their capabilites would allow.
 
It's funny that you would decide you were superior to those who couldn't talk. I don't feel superior to those who sign, but then even tho my dad was a teacher and even tho he does not like the way the schools have deteriroated he didn't think of deaf individuals as 'stupid', just different. He being a coach just concidered the deaf school we played as another team to defeat. :)

Your father was an unusual educator. Its a shame we don't have more like him in the system. However, shel was given that message fromthe educators that she encountered.
 
Actually Shel a well informed is well aware that the potential for abuse is high in a dorm situation. Even with back ground checks on staff their is no guarentee that someone will not take advantage of their child. If you choose to ignore the possiblity that staff at any school or dorm could possibly be abusive then you trust to much.

That can be said of any situation in which others are entrusted to care for your child, including mainstream public schools. I don't remeber the last time I heard a news story specifcally related to abuse at the deaf schools that had occurred recently, yet I can count at least 4 stories from the last month in regard to public schools and hearing children abused by a teacher or a principal.
 
One of the cases that I know about happen about 3 years ago and the other aout 2 years ago.

Will email my friend and ask her what happened and how it was addressed. However, at my work, in the 5 years I have worked there, not one incident of abuse both in dorms and classrooms have occurred. Two dorm staff got fired about 3 years ago for not completing an incident report on an incident in which a student got hurt by accident. That's how strict my school is. My brother said the same about the deaf school he works at.

In the olden days, many deaf children were abused severely for signing...my agent was telling me about her experiences with abuse at her school for signing cuz it was an oral school and when her parents found out, they immediately transferred to American School for the Deaf and she said she has never been so much happier to be able to use the language she is most comfortable using.
 
That can be said of any situation in which others are entrusted to care for your child, including mainstream public schools. I don't remeber the last time I heard a news story specifcally related to abuse at the deaf schools that had occurred recently, yet I can count at least 4 stories from the last month in regard to public schools and hearing children abused by a teacher or a principal.

Yea, public schools are not so innocent too so that means Jackie wont send her kids to whatever public schools where abuse had occurred? I am curious about that.
 
It's funny that you would decide you were superior to those who couldn't talk. I don't feel superior to those who sign, but then even tho my dad was a teacher and even tho he does not like the way the schools have deteriroated he didn't think of deaf individuals as 'stupid', just different. He being a coach just concidered the deaf school we played as another team to defeat. :)

I didnt decide..I was brainwashed into believing that. I was a kid and didnt know better...I regret it big time and dont appreciate those specialists who modeled that attitude to me. It is wrong and they shouldnt be in the field of education if they model that kind of thinking in front of the kids. At least they could keep it to themselves..geez!
 
Same here. I never saw anything "horrible" going on in the dorms at St. Rita. Unless you call something like the occasional water balloon fight in the hallway "horrible". Personally, I call that mischieveous.

I am not talking about normal childhood events such as water balloon fights, I am talking about serious things that these children will carry with them for the rest of their lives. I am not saying these things happen in all deaf school but I know of 2 different events that involved 2 different children at different times.
 
Yea, public schools are not so innocent too so that means Jackie wont send her kids to whatever public schools where abuse had occurred? I am curious about that.

This where my relationship and the bond that I have with my children comes into place. My children and I have a very trusting relationship. We talk about many different thing so if something like would happen they would tell me. I would never send my kids to a boarding/dorm school because something could happen and I wouldn't see them on a daily basis so I wouldn't be able to see the differences if something like this would happen. I am not saying that this sort of things happen at dorm/boarding, I just saying that I personally wouldn't take the chance.
 
This where my relationship and the bond that I have with my children comes into place. My children and I have a very trusting relationship. We talk about many different thing so if something like would happen they would tell me. I would never send my kids to a boarding/dorm school because something could happen and I wouldn't see them on a daily basis so I wouldn't be able to see the differences if something like this would happen. I am not saying that this sort of things happen at dorm/boarding, I just saying that I personally wouldn't take the chance.

No, what I am saying is if there was an abuse incident that happened at the school where they attend currently, would u take them out?

We just have to be viligant with our children and the parents have to do the same for the children who go to dorms or boarding school. Abuse can happen anywhere..nope, doesnt make it right but hope CSDR changed their policies. That's what I am hoping my friend will answer for me. Still waiting for her email.

I wouldnt want to send my children to the dorms not because of the abuse..because I would MISS them too much!
 
I am not talking about normal childhood events such as water balloon fights, I am talking about serious things that these children will carry with them for the rest of their lives. I am not saying these things happen in all deaf school but I know of 2 different events that involved 2 different children at different times.

And these things don't happen in the public schools, or churches, or Boy Scout and Girl Scout camps? Just the deaf schools, huh?
 
This where my relationship and the bond that I have with my children comes into place. My children and I have a very trusting relationship. We talk about many different thing so if something like would happen they would tell me. I would never send my kids to a boarding/dorm school because something could happen and I wouldn't see them on a daily basis so I wouldn't be able to see the differences if something like this would happen. I am not saying that this sort of things happen at dorm/boarding, I just saying that I personally wouldn't take the chance.

Do you have any idea how well supervised these kids in the dorms are these days? My son attended deaf school as a day student, and he was probably less at risk than he would have been in a mainstream school for all types of abuse...including emotional abuse from teachers and bullying fromhearing students.
 
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