District files appeal against deaf student

[jillio]

While driving to work, I couldnt stop laughing about this cuz I cant imagine myself in such bad shape that I am in a NEED of an alcoholic drink to be able to read Jackie's posts. If that was the case, I would be a full blown alcoholic. LOL! I just thought it was tooo funny ...

 

[jillio]

Tried oral terps when I first started college..too hard and too tiring, then did the CART..was better but I had to constantly read the text soo quickly to be able to catch everything and processing all the technical words became so tiring, so when I felt confident enough in my signing skills, I tried an ASL terp...was so much better and I felt more connected to the class and the discussions.

Exactly. When I use terps and CART together, it is an ASL terp in the classroom, and CART provides a print transcript for the student to review.

 

[shel90]

Exactly. When I use terps and CART together, it is an ASL terp in the classroom, and CART provides a print transcript for the student to review.

So u are saying that having both an ASL terp and a CART at the same time would be very beneficial as opposed to just having the CART or ASL terp alone?

Never tried that ...probably would have helped more if I had the CART along with the ASL terps but I didnt think of it that way at the time.

 

[jillio]

So u are saying that having both an ASL terp and a CART at the same time would be very beneficial as opposed to just having the CART or ASL terp alone?

Never tried that ...probably would have helped more if I had the CART along with the ASL terps but I didnt think of it that way at the time.

Yeah, we use CART and a terp instead of a notetaker and a terp in some classes. Some professors are impossible to take notes for.

 

[shel90]

Yeah, we use CART and a terp instead of a notetaker and a terp in some classes. Some professors are impossible to take notes for.

True..hmm

Anyways, if parents want to mainstream their kids without signing, then the CART would be the best accodomation available to ensure that they have access to information. I would prefer the children to have a CART instead of a lousy terp.

 

[jag]

And that is the problem. You know nothing about the deaf schools, you have not had any experience with the deaf schools, and yet you are ready to condemn them and the students that attend them based on gossip you hear from others. Perhaps you would do well to visit a few of the deaf schools, and actually observe in the classrooms before you jump to conclusions.

Actually I'd guess that like most schools the deaf schools vary in actual teaching. The school my daughter attends is really pretty good. We spoke with the mom of a 1st grader who'd moved here from one of the southern states because their research showed that the academic programs were one of the best in the nation. Not everyone has jobs that allow this of course but that family did. Evidently they were not impressed with the deaf school/s in the state where they came from and weren't that impressed with the schools in neighboring states.

Does this mean that all staff want to work with kids like mine? Nope. But that's life. (and I don't mean deaf, she also is mentally impaired) It could be that the schools in CA are perhaps adequet(sp?) but not that great.

As for keeping kids in their home districts, it is done, it probably depends on how much the school would have to spend to support the student in a deaf school vs how much they can get by with by keeping them 'home'. And keeping kids home also has to do with families liking to raise their own children. As I said not everyone can change jobs or move a business, my guess is many opt for oral or CI's just because they don't really want to send a small child to a dorm.

Having said that, personally I am very aware of how stressful it is to interact with a severe hearing loss and can only imagine how hard it is on some of those children. Parents need to be better educated on what they can request and definately need to be educated that really in the end they are going to be required to 'enforce' any accomodations that were written into the IEP.

 

[jillio]

True..hmm

Anyways, if parents want to mainstream their kids without signing, then the CART would be the best accodomation available to ensure that they have access to information. I would prefer the children to have a CART instead of a lousy terp.

Agreed. The reason I reccommend usingthem together goes back to the access to lnaguage issue. The terp provides the interpreted elcture inconcept using ASL, and then the student has a print transcript in English. If there is vocab the student isn't familiar with, its not a problem since they have already gotten concept in ASL and can infer definition.

 

[jillio]

Actually I'd guess that like most schools the deaf schools vary in actual teaching. The school my daughter attends is really pretty good. We spoke with the mom of a 1st grader who'd moved here from one of the southern states because their research showed that the academic programs were one of the best in the nation. Not everyone has jobs that allow this of course but that family did. Evidently they were not impressed with the deaf school/s in the state where they came from and weren't that impressed with the schools in neighboring states.

Does this mean that all staff want to work with kids like mine? Nope. But that's life. (and I don't mean deaf, she also is mentally impaired) It could be that the schools in CA are perhaps adequet(sp?) but not that great.

As for keeping kids in their home districts, it is done, it probably depends on how much the school would have to spend to support the student in a deaf school vs how much they can get by with by keeping them 'home'. And keeping kids home also has to do with families liking to raise their own children. As I said not everyone can change jobs or move a business, my guess is many opt for oral or CI's just because they don't really want to send a small child to a dorm.

Having said that, personally I am very aware of how stressful it is to interact with a severe hearing loss and can only imagine how hard it is on some of those children. Parents need to be better educated on what they can request and definately need to be educated that really in the end they are going to be required to 'enforce' any accomodations that were written into the IEP.

**nodding agreement** I can certainly understand not wnating to send a small child to a dorm. I personally was one of the lucky ones who was able to relocate so my son could attend the school I ahd chosen as a day student.

I also agree that parents need to be better educated. I would reccommend that you begin by requesting more than you think your child will need. Once it is written intothe IEP, the school is legally obligated to provide it. If it turns out that some services are not necessary, call another IEP meeting, or wait until the ones scheduled at the end of the year, and agree to have services left out of the next IEP. It is infinately easier to get the school to take services out than it is to get them to put additional services in. And this process needs to begin in first grade.

 

[rick48]

I am a teacher and was a interpreter for at the college level and at the elementary levels. All I am saying is who the hell are we to judge someone for the way they want to educate their children. If Jackie has chosen Oralism then more power to her. All students should have the right to an education and a right to all technology out there. The CART not only helps the deaf student but also the other hearing children in that classroom. I have interpreted a class where I was the Interpreter and the CART was used along with me. I really think that some ppl should stop being closed minded and we all should start fighting for all dhh to have all accomdations to be successful productive students

Melissa,

Very good posts. CART is not being provided to "fill in the gaps in their oral education" but to provide them equal access to the education that they are entitled to. And yes, it does benefit all the kids in that particular classroom.
Rick

 

[rick48]

JIllo
I have never pushed my oralist's views down anybody's throat. I have shared my views and what I do for a living. I have never said that oral is for eveybody. Unlike you and others that say all deaf kids need to sign.

No, Jackie you have not. All you have done is come here with an open mind and explain to others how you are raising your child. That is just a tactic she and her two pals use, just invent a phrase and keep repeating it.

Amusing isn't it that the one person on this board who constantly tells others they are wrong and who refuses to acknowledge that there is no one way to raise a deaf child is accusing you of pushing an agenda down someone's throat.
Rick

 

[jillio]

Melissa,

Very good posts. CART is not being provided to "fill in the gaps in their oral education" but to provide them equal access to the education that they are entitled to. And yes, it does benefit all the kids in that particular classroom.
Rick

If there are no gaps, then there is already equal access, by definition. BTW, made that donation to St. Rita yet?

 

[rick48]

If there are no gaps, then there is already equal access, by definition. BTW, made that donation to St. Rita yet?

Sorry, but that is your definition and I do not accept it as a valid one. Providing any child with a resource to allow them equal access to thier education is not gap filling. Again, if that is your philosophy then it reconfirms my opinion about you as someone supposedly assisting students with their educational needs.

I believe I have already said that I would honor my bet and have done so.

 

[jillio]

Sorry, but that is your definition and I do not accept it as a valid one. Providing any child with a resource to allow them equal access to thier education is not gap filling. Again, if that is your philosophy then it reconfirms my opinion about you as someone supposedly assisting students with their educational needs.

I believe I have already said that I would honor my bet and have done so.

Once again, if gaps were not resent, then additional accommodations would not be necessary. Its inherent. And none of my students have had to sue to get CART, terps, or any other services necessary.

I have checked with St. Rita, and they don't have any record of a private donation coming in inthe last 2 months. Can you send confirmation on that? When you make a donation, they provide yu with a confirmation # for tax purposes.

 

[rick48]

Once again, if gaps were not resent, then additional accommodations would not be necessary. Its inherent. And none of my students have had to sue to get CART, terps, or any other services necessary.

I have checked with St. Rita, and they don't have any record of a private donation coming in inthe last 2 months. Can you send confirmation on that? When you make a donation, they provide yu with a confirmation # for tax purposes.

Big whoop that none of your students had to sue to get CART, what an irrelevent point.

Anticipating that you would attempt to violate what should have been a private matter between myself and St. Rita's, I mailed them a $20 money order on Saturday July 21st in an envelope with no return address. There was nothing stated on the money order other than that it was made payable to them and that it was a donation. I put no idnetification on the money order. If they do not have it, I am sorry but it was mailed. If they are in the practice of telling third parties the names of private donors and/or whether donations were made, then I am glad I did make the donation in the manner in which I did to foil your back-handed but oh so typical weasel tactics.

BTW I saved the money order receipt which will be sufficient should the taxman ever come a knocking at my door.

 

[rick48]

Once again, if gaps were not resent, then additional accommodations would not be necessary. Its inherent. And none of my students have had to sue to get CART, terps, or any other services necessary.

I know Dean's List students in college with GPAs above 3.5 who use CART as well as HS Honors students with high 90s averages who are using CART. They do not have "gaps" in thier education but take advantage of services that are being provided to maintain their status of academically successful students.

Too bad you and your pals equate the use of services and technology with some kind of deficiency either in their academics and/or their language methodology.

If you advise your students to utilize CART then presumably you are aware of its advanatges, why you persist in arguing with Jackie about this issue then is mind boggling. If your concern is truly, as you tell us ad nauseum, with the plight of deaf students regardless of language methodology then you should have been at the forefront of supporting Jackie, not attacking her.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

If there are no gaps, then there is already equal access, by definition. BTW, made that donation to St. Rita yet?

Jillo, I would think you would understand this that even though my daughter could understand every word being said in class this does not mean, she is hearing every word so since she does not hear every word she does not have equal access. It is as simple as that.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Once again, if gaps were not resent, then additional accommodations would not be necessary. Its inherent. And none of my students have had to sue to get CART, terps, or any other services necessary.

I have checked with St. Rita, and they don't have any record of a private donation coming in inthe last 2 months. Can you send confirmation on that? When you make a donation, they provide yu with a confirmation # for tax purposes.

Here in California none of the college students that use CART have had to sue for it. The company providing CART for my daughter this fall was the company that set up CART at CSUN. There have been 2 due process cases for CART at the High School level, one of them being my daughter's.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

As I mention before the school district did agree to providing CART for the Fall semester through out the appeal process. It had been over 1 month ago since we received the news. In that month, the special education director kept giving us the run around and had not settle or authorized CART. A week ago this gentleman went on emergency medical leave for 6 to 8 weeks. I contacted his boss and asked who was in charge of my daughter's case. I also explain the urgency of having a contract in place. In 2 days, he settled everything. We now have a contract and appropriate CART providers for my daughter. We are so happy.

 

[jillio]

Big whoop that none of your students had to sue to get CART, what an irrelevent point.

Its not irrelevent at all. Your post implied that I was incompetent in my job, and the fact that my students are receiving services without a lawsuit refutes that veiled accusation.

Anticipating that you would attempt to violate what should have been a private matter between myself and St. Rita's,
It wasn't a private matter between you and St. Rita...it was amatter between you and I. You jumped intot he bet, and the donation was made based on your loss to me.
I mailed them a $20 money order on Saturday July 21st in an envelope with no return address. There was nothing stated on the money order other than that it was made payable to them and that it was a donation. I put no idnetification on the money order.
Well, now, isn't that convienient. You can't prove it was ever made. No less than I expected from you.
If they do not have it, I am sorry but it was mailed. If they are in the practice of telling third parties the names of private donors and/or whether donations were made, then I am glad I did make the donation in the manner in which I did to foil your back-handed but oh so typical weasel tactics.

Donations are a matter of public record. And, if you had actuallymade it, you would not be concerned at all with anyone knowing you had done so. You are only concerned because, as suspected, you welched on your bet. The only reason you agreed to make the doantion was to try to get some credibility back, and you have managed to ruin it again.

BTW I saved the money order receipt which will be sufficient should the taxman ever come a knocking at my door.

No it won't because you have already said that you sent the money order anonymously. Can't prove it was you. And I am not the one using the weasle tactics. Igf you had any intention of being honest and up front, you would have made the donation and verified it. You are the one acting like a weasle. Trying to get oh, so agressive instead of calmlly handling the matter like a man.

 

[jillio]

Jillo, I would think you would understand this that even though my daughter could understand every word being said in class this does not mean, she is hearing every word so since she does not hear every word she does not have equal access. It is as simple as that.

Hearing students don't understand each a every word, either. That's the argument the schoolsystem stands on. And, rick is the one that said there are no gaps, not me.