District files appeal against deaf student

[jackiesolorzano]

mostly deaf school and country have problems for battles with teachers,principals,whatevers if this story would getting more serious story they will getting headlines for sures! they have going to court against by school they will won cases or you never get money or whatevers that aint so easy for that!

i never been against my old school before but i know its so rough as battles and also WARS for more reasons on school cases!

mostly school and college students have problems with teachers,principals,supt,district,board of directors they will making more battles for court! they can going court every weeks how long you been going court and you would won this cases if you are smart!

I am smart and my kids are very smart. The other thing I will not give up. I will go as far as the supreme court if I need too. The other thing we are very blessed with the people we have in our lives. We have a very strong support base. We have the most amazing, caring, and brilliant attorney. Who believes in our case? And who is willing to take it all the way?

 

[jillio]

Yes, Shel they are wasting their time and money. When they first appealed they thought they would not have to provide CART. An appeal generally takes a year or two, so they thought they would tie up this case in court and when a federal judge finally upheld the first verdict, my daughter would have finished high school. The other thing is that they probable thought I would give up but I never will. I think they are also scared because they know that my son will be entering high school soon and didn't want to apy for 2 kids. I have people I know in the district and that is what they have told me.

But an appeal doesn't go straight to the federal courts. First it goes to local courts, then state courts, then district courts, then federal courts. And a school system has an attorney on contract that gets paid whether he is trying cases or not. I would imagine that they have more in the legal budget than your average citizen. Since the attorney is on contract, and is being paid irregardless, they aren't wasting time or money. It's already been spent. They are just getting their money's worth.

 

[jillio]

I am not saying the case is not ongoing. I saying that we have a verdict. I understand that it was an admins law judge. We were lucky to have a judge with a special education background. She was very clear in her verdict. What I also understand is that it is very rare that an appeal is won. The school district is wasting money. When they first appealed they said that they were not going to be provide CART because they didn't have to. Then my daughter's attorney found a case where a parent won and the school district was appealing but the federal judge said they had to provide what the due process judge ordered while the case was being appeal.
I also think that part of the reason they are appealing the case is because they know that my son is about to enter high school and so we will go through this all over again.
I not only contacted the media but also all of our elected officals for 2 reasons first to put pressure on the school district and second to bring attention to this issue.

Are you aware that a finding at the due process level only says that the school system did not follow due process before denying services to your daughter.
doesn't say they we're wrong in denying services, but simply that due process was not followed in doing so. In order for them to be found in violation of a federal law such as the ADA, the case has to go to trial.

 

[deafdyke]

pek, the gross majority of dhh folks DO have "deaf" sounding speech. Even those with very good speech still have mild tone issues that hearing people don't have.

 

[jillio]

pek, the gross majority of dhh folks DO have "deaf" sounding speech. Even those with very good speech still have mild tone issues that hearing people don't have.

Yeah, I think he gets that now! I'm jsut glad that he had a sense of humor about the challenge he gave me!

 

[pek1]

pek, the gross majority of dhh folks DO have "deaf" sounding speech. Even those with very good speech still have mild tone issues that hearing people don't have.

Yeah, that I know. It is like a lisp. I knew about it before learning it in a class for speech-language-hearing science. I knew, also, about my own speech, so what jillio said didn't surprise me. I have worked extensively to clear it up. If jillio says I have any kind of accent (she had a cute southern one with just a hint of a smokers voice mixed in ), I'm gonna scream, as this is one area that I have trouble in. I can easily catch on to someone's accent and use it in my own speech.:roll:

 

[pek1]

Yeah, I think he gets that now! I'm jsut glad that he had a sense of humor about the challenge he gave me!

By the way, I actually thought you had said something about your husband. Since I was obviously mistaken, I sincerely apologize for my remark about him.

 

[deafdyke]

I knew, also, about my own speech, so what jillio said didn't surprise me.

So why were you claiming that your speech wasn't "deaf" sounding?
Jackie, I'm not surprised that there are people out there who are so amazed at your kids' speech quality. Virtually ALL of those people are people who have never been exposed to deaf kids, and are amazed at the fact they can talk! I've encountered those types too, you know. It's a mixed bag. There are people who are amazed at how well I speak, then there are people who are "I didn't even know you were deaf! Your voice sounds fine to me!" Then again there are tons and tons and tons of people who say I still have a distrinctive voice..... Then again there was that audi who asked (really rudely) if I'd ever seen a speech language pathologist (this was at age seventeen)

 

[jillio]

I am smart and my kids are very smart. The other thing I will not give up. I will go as far as the supreme court if I need too. The other thing we are very blessed with the people we have in our lives. We have a very strong support base. We have the most amazing, caring, and brilliant attorney. Who believes in our case? And who is willing to take it all the way?

Well, yeah! That's what an attorney gets paid for!!

 

[jillio]

Yeah, that I know. It is like a lisp. I knew about it before learning it in a class for speech-language-hearing science. I knew, also, about my own speech, so what jillio said didn't surprise me. I have worked extensively to clear it up. If jillio says I have any kind of accent (she had a cute southern one with just a hint of a smokers voice mixed in ), I'm gonna scream, as this is one area that I have trouble in. I can easily catch on to someone's accent and use it in my own speech.:roll:

I'm impressed, Pete. I did live inthe south for several years, and picked up a bit of that accent..it is combined with my native midwestern accent...and that raspy quality is something I have had since I was a child....but I am also a light smoker! I've vowed to quit as soon as I finish school! And the only accent I picked up on was the very full rounded "o" typical of Minnesota.

 

[jillio]

By the way, I actually thought you had said something about your husband. Since I was obviously mistaken, I sincerely apologize for my remark about him.

Apology accepted!

 

[jillio]

So why were you claiming that your speech wasn't "deaf" sounding?
Jackie, I'm not surprised that there are people out there who are so amazed at your kids' speech quality. Virtually ALL of those people are people who have never been exposed to deaf kids, and are amazed at the fact they can talk! I've encountered those types too, you know. It's a mixed bag. There are people who are amazed at how well I speak, then there are people who are "I didn't even know you were deaf! Your voice sounds fine to me!" Then again there are tons and tons and tons of people who say I still have a distrinctive voice..... Then again there was that audi who asked (really rudely) if I'd ever seen a speech language pathologist (this was at age seventeen)

Agreed.
Speaking well doesn't mean that the "deaf quality" that we are discussing ever disappears. And someone like me, who talks to various deaf people with various levels of oral skills on a daily basis just recognizes the pattern.

 

[jag]

That's the problem with many public schools..they dont act on the best interests on the deaf children sometimes. When I was in high school, I had an ASL interpreter even though I didnt know one sign in ASL and I refused to look at her cuz I was so embarrassed. It was a waste of her time and the school's money. That's why I am not surprised about this situation..it is nothing new.

Actually shel it amazes me that a school (schools being famous for working very hard to provide as little as they can) would pay for an interpetor when the person doesn't use ASL. Was there another person in the classroom who did use ASL and you were lumped into it as an accomodation because you were deaf to? If you (if you were the only one in the class) weren't using it I can't see why either you or your parents would get that accomodation listed in your IEp and I really can't see why the school would pay to have an interpetor on staff providing translation to one person who didn't use it well enough to get much out of it. That's why I'm asking if there was another deaf person in the classroom?

One mistake that parents make in arguing for services is actually saying that this is the best way. One never should bring 'best' into it. Just as the school will not actually say they can't because of 'money' the parent needs to agru based on WHY the requested service 'appropriate' for their child's education. To parents who are working at successfully supporting their children in their home schools, NEVER EVER SAY BEST. The schools arguement will be they only need to provide 'free and APPROPRIATE' so the parents need to agru that the service they want is APPROPRIATE (in Shel's case some type of transciption/notetaking) and they have to be willing to agru against the schools idea of what is appropriate (why ASL was not appropriate from of translation..the child doesn't use ASL). I, myself took quite some time to accuatlly get this through my head and with a child with a mental disablity who read the books and stuff it really is sad I didn't understand that.

Yes the law says the school is required to provide services, the parents need to go into the IEP meeting not only with the list of services they need but with the data showing why that service is the appropriate one for their child. Will they still get it, not necessarily but the less 'emotion' brought into it and the more data showing why the service is appropriate and the backup of any case law that shows why the courts decided in the parents favor will help outcome.

Obviously in the case listed the parents have been willing to follow through and are successfully agruing that the service is appropriate. Good for them.

 

[jag]

Are you aware that a finding at the due process level only says that the school system did not follow due process before denying services to your daughter.
doesn't say they we're wrong in denying services, but simply that due process was not followed in doing so. In order for them to be found in violation of a federal law such as the ADA, the case has to go to trial.

True, but the district also has to justify the $$ they are spending on the appeal vs the money they'd spend on just providing the service. It's a gamble for both the parents and the district. My guess is the school system is hoping that the other side backs down. AFter all if she's really willing to appeal all the way to the SC, and case law has actually gotten nursing support for severely handicapped students in their home schools, well, if the attourney is good the school might have problems and then if they lose have to justify the ammount of money they spent that would have been better spent on accutally edcuating the kids. At the moment it's kinda a standoff waiting to see who'll back down first.

BTW, parents who are thinking of appealing need to make sure they use a lawyer who works in educational law. There are ways to find them on the net.

 

[jillio]

True, but the district also has to justify the $$ they are spending on the appeal vs the money they'd spend on just providing the service. It's a gamble for both the parents and the district. My guess is the school system is hoping that the other side backs down. AFter all if she's really willing to appeal all the way to the SC, and case law has actually gotten nursing support for severely handicapped students in their home schools, well, if the attourney is good the school might have problems and then if they lose have to justify the ammount of money they spent that would have been better spent on accutally edcuating the kids. At the moment it's kinda a standoff waiting to see who'll back down first.

BTW, parents who are thinking of appealing need to make sure they use a lawyer who works in educational law. There are ways to find them on the net.

Agreed. And since school districts keep attorneys on contract, their expense in appealing will most likely be considerably less than providing CART services for an extended period of time. I would venture a guess tht the appeal is taking place because this student has been doing well according to the parent, and therefore the school is relying on the appropriate clause. It can be convincingly argued that they have been providing appropriate services based on the student's academic record. And I wholeheartedly agree--the attorney needs to specialize not just in ADA law, but educational law.

 

[jag]

Agreed. And since school districts keep attorneys on contract, their expense in appealing will most likely be considerably less than providing CART services for an extended period of time. I would venture a guess tht the appeal is taking place because this student has been doing well according to the parent, and therefore the school is relying on the appropriate clause. It can be convincingly argued that they have been providing appropriate services based on the student's academic record. And I wholeheartedly agree--the attorney needs to specialize not just in ADA law, but educational law.

Oh and another thing to when asking for accomdations etc. in the IEP and getting a no, make sure that they provide you on the spot during the meeting a copy of the hmm, what it the name of that document. I'll think if it eventually. someday...(oh just remembered, if they refuse your request then state you want a Prior Written Notice as to why)..But it's basically a written statement that includes the WHY they are refusing the parental request, and there is a legal term for that paper. Some states even carry a copy of the form on their educataion web sites, making it available to the staff in their states and the general public. I think TN had one on it's website. Can't remember if my state of MN does. (I would say if your state doesn't have one then find one on another states website, copy it off and take to meetings with you) Since they really don't want to be on record as to why they are saying no and exactly why they don't follow that particular part of the IDEA, espeically if the parents have outlined why the accomodation is appropriate for their child and they can't come up with a good excuse. That's why it's good to get that in writing immediately, so you can have the dumb excuse to use against them.

 

[deafdyke]

and case law has actually gotten nursing support for severely handicapped students in their home sch

Yeah, but there's a HUGE difference between providing nursing support for a medically fragile kid and providing C-Print for a student who is doing well with appropreate accomondations. (ie just a notetaker)
I just find it SO ironic that Ag Bell types say that there's freedom in listening and talking, but then bitch and moan about all the limitations that listening and talking give a dhh kid.

 

[jillio]

Yeah, but there's a HUGE difference between providing nursing support for a medically fragile kid and providing C-Print for a student who is doing well with appropreate accomondations. (ie just a notetaker)
I just find it SO ironic that Ag Bell types say that there's freedom in listening and talking, but then bitch and moan about all the limitations that listening and talking give a dhh kid.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

But an appeal doesn't go straight to the federal courts. First it goes to local courts, then state courts, then district courts, then federal courts. And a school system has an attorney on contract that gets paid whether he is trying cases or not. I would imagine that they have more in the legal budget than your average citizen. Since the attorney is on contract, and is being paid irregardless, they aren't wasting time or money. It's already been spent. They are just getting their money's worth.

Jillo, I am not an attorney so I could be wrong but what my daughter's attorney has told me is that we do not have to go through the steps that you have said. Yes, we had to first start at the school level and then from there it was our choice to go to the state or the federal level and we choose the federal level. Yes, the school has an attorney on contract but once a case goes through due process and beyond, attorneys charge fees above their contracted fees. This information is from my special education director. The average cost for the school to pay to their attorney for a due process case that is not appealed is $20,000. So they are wasting their time and money. Our attorney is not charging us a single cent.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

So why were you claiming that your speech wasn't "deaf" sounding?
Jackie, I'm not surprised that there are people out there who are so amazed at your kids' speech quality. Virtually ALL of those people are people who have never been exposed to deaf kids, and are amazed at the fact they can talk! I've encountered those types too, you know. It's a mixed bag. There are people who are amazed at how well I speak, then there are people who are "I didn't even know you were deaf! Your voice sounds fine to me!" Then again there are tons and tons and tons of people who say I still have a distrinctive voice..... Then again there was that audi who asked (really rudely) if I'd ever seen a speech language pathologist (this was at age seventeen)

deafdyke, yes we have come across people that when they finally realize that my kids are deaf, they are just amazed at their speech and not everything else they have been able to do with their lives.
The other thing that I hate is when people notice my kids hearing devices and just stare at them. One time my son said what is that old lady staring at mom. I told him in a loud voice to make this lady hear me they are staring at your implant. Of course the lady just turned around and pretended she wasn't staring.