District files appeal against deaf student

[shel90]

Gee...didnt at the begining of the thread, before Jackie came in here, we were all debating about how her daughter should be able to recieve the CART and how the public schools are terrible about providing the max services for deaf/hh students? Now, Rick and Jackie are saying that if Jackie had gotten an ASL terp, everyone would come to her support. What is that about? This is becoming a little childish here.

We were having a nice discussion about legal systems, educational policies and stuff but what is this crap about who is supporting who because this person is oral or ASL? Grow up people!

 

[jillio]

You are so right no doubt in mind that if I was fighting for interpeter, I am sure everyone would have come to my rescue good thing we do not need to be rescued.

Then why the lawsuit and media attention?

 

[jillio]

Gee...didnt at the begining of the thread, before Jackie came in here, we were all debating about how her daughter should be able to recieve the CART and how the public schools are terrible about providing the max services for deaf/hh students? Now, Rick and Jackie are saying that if Jackie had gotten an ASL terp, everyone would come to her support. What is that about? This is becoming a little childish here.

We were having a nice discussion about legal systems, educational policies and stuff but what is this crap about who is supporting who because this person is oral or ASL? Grow up people!

Once again, it has turned into an "us" against "them" situation. Why do some people insist on becoming emotional and interpreting everything as a personal attack on them as parents?

 

[jillio]

I found the attorney because as I stated before he has won CART for another student that went to school in the same area where I teach. Someone knew about the struggles we were about to go through and gave me his name. I know it is the decision of the school how they arrange the appeal but we have a counter sue against them that we have started at the federal level.

So, he didn't charge for his other case, either? How is it that you can start a counter suit at the federal level when the school system has not gone to the federal level? Suits and countersuits are heard in the same court. And only in the civil courts. Are yu saying that you have filed a civil suit against the school system? For what?

 

[jillio]

That's fine or I can make a donation to St. rita's. your choice.

Make a doantion to St. Rita's and email me confirmation.

 

[rockdrummer]

CART can accept either voice or keyboard input.

Then program I'm referring to is the keyboard input as I'm not ready for the voice input version yet as each teacher has different phonetic signatures and the programming will have to be changed to meet the different teachers. This is beyond my scope at this time. For now, I will focus on the keyboard input. And we use the free federal surplus property to put the systems together and develop the programming and find 5 schools that have mainstreaming students to impliment the program.

Other deaf groups have been talking of this for years already and they havent produced any results. It's all talk they do. I'm a do-er not a talker.

The schools accross the US will save millions of dollars every year in the long run using my program model.

I'm so excited to be part of this development.

Richard

I commend you for your efforts and wish you the best moving forward. The technology that I refer to is called VR or Voice recognition. I'ts been around for a while but as you can imagine it's tough to perfect with all of the differences in how folks speak. In my opinion, the downside to strictly keyboard input is that you must have a body there transcribing. The advantage to VR is that all you need is a computer. Until the VR technology is more accurate perhaps keyboard is the only other way. Hey, at least someone is doing something about it.

 

[rockdrummer]

Make a doantion to St. Rita's and email me confirmation.

ok... now I gotta know... What? Did Rick loose a bet to you Jillio? Don't leave me hangin!!

 

[jillio]

ok... now I gotta know... What? Did Rick loose a bet to you Jillio? Don't leave me hangin!!

YEP, earlier inthis thread. We were discussing whether deaf voices were recognizable, and pek1 challenged me sayign that I could not pick his out. rick jumped ont he bandwagon, certain that pek was right. After a phone call with pek, I outlined the distinctive qualities that I heard in his voice, and he admitted that I had nailed it. So, with pek admitting that I coulod hear the deaf qualities, rick lost out on a bet that he jumped into.

 

[rockdrummer]

So now Rick is gonna donate a couple mil to St. Rita's.. THATS AWSOME!! It does go to show you he's a stand up guy. Good for you Rick! And good for you too Jillio!

 

[jillio]

So now Rick is gonna donate a couple mil to St. Rita's.. THATS AWSOME!! It does go to show you he's a stand up guy. Good for you Rick! And good for you too Jillio!

LOL......more like 20 bucks. And yep, he did own up to his bet. Admirable quality.

 

[jag]

Yeah, but there's a HUGE difference between providing nursing support for a medically fragile kid and providing C-Print for a student who is doing well with appropreate accomondations. (ie just a notetaker)
I just find it SO ironic that Ag Bell types say that there's freedom in listening and talking, but then bitch and moan about all the limitations that listening and talking give a dhh kid.

Do you really think that keeping a full time LPN/RN on staff with pay and benefits is any cheaper then getting appropriate accomodations or a deaf/hoh child or ANY handicapped child? Case law shows that the support CAN be won.

But it's not easy and many parents back down and aren't going to go the distance. I myself finally got disgusted enough and went found a different path for my child, it's what the school wanted from the start(let me clarify this statement, the school didn't want to have to deal with my mentally disabled daughter from the start), I have no illusions about that. Those that do dig and and fight usually get what they want when they district finds out they won't back down. Sure some need to go the distance, as in this case. But you should all be hopeing that this is settled in favor of the deaf/hoh CI user as it will give parents following the case law to support their requests from the start. Without people willing to do the hard work, no progress will be made.

 

[jag]

YEP, earlier inthis thread. We were discussing whether deaf voices were recognizable, and pek1 challenged me sayign that I could not pick his out. rick jumped ont he bandwagon, certain that pek was right. After a phone call with pek, I outlined the distinctive qualities that I heard in his voice, and he admitted that I had nailed it. So, with pek admitting that I coulod hear the deaf qualities, rick lost out on a bet that he jumped into.

ACtually it wasn't really a truely unbiased thing tho. You knew bfore you called him that he was deaf so were really on the out look to hear what you wanted to hear. To be truely a fair assessment I would think that the call should have been announous and such. In other words it would have been more interesting to see if you had the same results if he had had a friend answer the phone in his name. Whatever.

I do think that the reference all the time to 'deaf' voices is rather silly. Even hearing people have different qualities to their voice. I sound like me.

 

[shel90]

Do you really think that keeping a full time LPN/RN on staff with pay and benefits is any cheaper then getting appropriate accomodations or a deaf/hoh child or ANY handicapped child? Case law shows that the support CAN be won.

But it's not easy and many parents back down and aren't going to go the distance. I myself finally got disgusted enough and went found a different path for my child, it's what the school wanted from the start, I have no illusions about that. Those that do dig and and fight usually get what they want when they district finds out they won't back down. Sure some need to go the distance, as in this case. But you should all be hopeing that this is settled in favor of the deaf/hoh CI user as it will give parents following the case law to support their requests from the start. Without people willing to do the hard work, no progress will be made.

Nope..not cheaper..probably more expensive. However, due to the child's fragile health and risk of serious injury or even death WILL make the school provide whatever needs to ensure that doesnt happen cuz the schools dont want to be held liable.

However, a deaf child who has CIs who is performing on his/her grade level or better is more likely viewed differently and not as a liability.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[rick48]

Gee...didnt at the begining of the thread, before Jackie came in here, we were all debating about how her daughter should be able to recieve the CART and how the public schools are terrible about providing the max services for deaf/hh students? Now, Rick and Jackie are saying that if Jackie had gotten an ASL terp, everyone would come to her support. What is that about? This is becoming a little childish here.

We were having a nice discussion about legal systems, educational policies and stuff but what is this crap about who is supporting who because this person is oral or ASL? Grow up people!

Why did you choose to name only Jackie and myself? Why not your pal, Jillio, who incidentally is the only one arguing with Jackie and everyone else. Why not name her?

 

[rick48]

Once again, it has turned into an "us" against "them" situation. Why do some people insist on becoming emotional and interpreting everything as a personal attack on them as parents?

I do not know why you do, so maybe you can you tell us why you do, Jillio?

 

[rick48]

So now Rick is gonna donate a couple mil to St. Rita's.. THATS AWSOME!! It does go to show you he's a stand up guy. Good for you Rick! And good for you too Jillio!

LOL, if I write a check for a couple of million to St. rita's tell them not to drop it for there is no telling how high that check will bounce!

 

[deafdyke]

deafdyke, I was wondering what you meant by there's freedom in listening and talking and the AG Bell types. I know of AG Bell but I have been involved with them. and then what do you mean that but then bitch and moan about all the limitations that listening and talking give a dhh kid.
Are you trying to say that because my kids can listen and talk, the school shouldn't provide them equal access to the curriulum. I was just wondering.

Well AG Bell promotes listening and talking and mainstreaming as things that give dhh kids complete and total equality in the hearing world, instead of simply as another useful tool in the toolbox. There are some members who are pro full toolbox, but overall it does seem like AG Bell is VERY audist about how oral speech and listening skills alledgely give you access to the hearing world. Their attitude as an organization is that things like Sign and other tools are a "crutch"/barrier to acheiveing in the hearing world. They push about how wonderful and glorious it is that your child doesn't need "special needs" things..........If you don't believe me look at the languange used in ads in Volta Voices. I know that on the lists I'm on (and yes I know that ancdedote isn't the plural of data) that the oral folks will be all "yeah! Enroll wittle Smashlie into oral programs, and mainstream her! She'll be a part of the hearing world. She doesn't "need" sign. The age of Sign is "over"......and then in their next breath they start complaining "Oh we don't have anything equalivant to a 'terp! Oh we're so not totally a part of the hearing world. I've never felt like I belonged totally in the hearing world! I have few friends, I have no social life! I wish I'd learned Sign early on .....boo hoo hoo"
I totally think that ALL kids should have equal access to the curriculm. BUT, your daughter IS doing wicked well. It is NOT a matter of methodology.......it's basicly b/c your daughter is doing very well already. It would be different if she was a C student.....but she's already doing VERY well. THAT'S why we're saying that C=Print as an accomondation is overkill........it just seems like you're one of those parents who want their kids to get an edge so they can get into Harvard or something.
Oh, and jag, I wasn't talking about costs. The nursing is VITAL for a medically fragile student. Without the nursing, the student could DIE. Whereas here, it's simply "oh wittle Smashlie isn't doing wicked wicked well!" They are ALREADY doing VERY well with a notetaker. Almost ANYONE I know who's dhh would have been pleased as punch to do as well as your daughter's doing with simply a notetaker. Quit complaining...............I have hypotonia (like cerebal palsy, which in turn affects my fine motor skills) and I'm LD but I didn't get a notetaker til I was in my sophmore year of high school (and trust me.....the school acted like it had given me the gold standard)

 

[jackiesolorzano]

So, he didn't charge for his other case, either?
I don't know if he charged or what he charged for the other case. All I needed to know was that he won the case.
How is it that you can start a counter suit at the federal level when the school system has not gone to the federal level? Suits and countersuits are heard in the same court. And only in the civil courts. Are yu saying that you have filed a civil suit against the school system? For what?

I never said it was a counter suit. We are suing but I never said why. I am not an attorney so I do not know why we filed at federal level, I just know that we did. I let our attorney make the decision on where and why since he is the expert.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Do you really think that keeping a full time LPN/RN on staff with pay and benefits is any cheaper then getting appropriate accomodations or a deaf/hoh child or ANY handicapped child? Case law shows that the support CAN be won.

But it's not easy and many parents back down and aren't going to go the distance. I myself finally got disgusted enough and went found a different path for my child, it's what the school wanted from the start(let me clarify this statement, the school didn't want to have to deal with my mentally disabled daughter from the start), I have no illusions about that. Those that do dig and and fight usually get what they want when they district finds out they won't back down. Sure some need to go the distance, as in this case. But you should all be hopeing that this is settled in favor of the deaf/hoh CI user as it will give parents following the case law to support their requests from the start. Without people willing to do the hard work, no progress will be made.

When we received the verdict, I kept thinking how this is going to help other deaf students in our SELPA. This is not only going to help my daughter but her friends and my son.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Gee...didnt at the begining of the thread, before Jackie came in here, we were all debating about how her daughter should be able to recieve the CART and how the public schools are terrible about providing the max services for deaf/hh students? Now, Rick and Jackie are saying that if Jackie had gotten an ASL terp, everyone would come to her support. What is that about? This is becoming a little childish here.

We were having a nice discussion about legal systems, educational policies and stuff but what is this crap about who is supporting who because this person is oral or ASL? Grow up people!

If I remember correctly one of the main reasons I joined was because someone said that my daughter should learn more sign language so the school could give her an interpeter. I thought but why should my daughter change who she is to make it easier on the school.
It is not me who made it a us vs. them, it is everybody else.