District files appeal against deaf student

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jackiesolorzano said:
We have won. We have a verdict. You must know how rare it is to win an appeal. The judge was very clear in her judgment. She was clear in the laws that the school district was not obeying. I did a lot of research and only found one case that an appeal was won. But it really doesn't matter to me what you think. I would think that you would be pleased because of this verdict other deaf high school deaf students both oral and signers in California will now be able to you our judgement for their case.
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So that means the school district is wasting their time with an appeal if they r not going to win it? Iam trying to make sure I am reading u right.

Yea, I am glad that u won the fight cuz public schools really do not have any clue on how to fully meet deaf/hoh childrens' needs and since it is rare to find a teacher with an intensive training in deaf ed only working in the public schools nationwide, many administrators assume a lot of things like in your daughter's case, providing a sign language terp when she is not fluent in it yet. Same thing happened to me, as I mentioned before.

Also, too often the public schools hire people who know a few basic signs as educational interps which makes the problem for the children worse instead of better. I guess that's another job I can consider...be a deaf ed consultant for public schools but will they spend the money for it? Like your situation is a perfect example of public schools being restistance about spending more money to ensure that their deaf/hoh children's needs r fully met.
 
jackiesolorzano said:
We have won. We have a verdict. You must know how rare it is to win an appeal. The judge was very clear in her judgment. She was clear in the laws that the school district was not obeying. I did a lot of research and only found one case that an appeal was won. But it really doesn't matter to me what you think. I would think that you would be pleased because of this verdict other deaf high school deaf students both oral and signers in California will now be able to you our judgement for their case.
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If the case is not ongoing, why all the media attention? Andif it is impossible to win an appeal, why is the school district wasting money and time on appeal? And, once again, due process is heard by an admisnistrative law judge--a magistrate, not a trial judge. If you got the services you wanted, the media attention is no longer necessary, is it?
 
Jackie,

While school districts often invoke Board of Education of the Hendrick Hudson Central School District v. Rowley, 458 U.S. 176 (1982), a case that held, in part, that school districts are mandated to provide a "free and appropriate" education and not necessarily the "best" education to a child, there have been reported decisions as far back as 1995 in California in which parents have been able to successfully defeat the Rowley argument. Thus, the school district's argument usually centers around the fact that the service they are willing to provide, while maybe not better than the service or program sought by the parents, is nonetheless "appropriate" and therefore they do not have to accommodate the parents' request.

The successful strategies advanced by the parents and their advocates in overcoming Rowley were designed to demonstrate that the issue was not between the better of two "appropriate" programs but that the ony "appropriate" program for the child was the program the parents were seeking. They successfully demonstrated that the program offered by the school district was simply inappropriate for their child.

With the caveat that I do not know all the facts in your case, it can be argued that Rowley is not even applicable to her child's situation because providing a sign interpreter to her daughter, who is not fluent in ASL, is, in and of itself, not an appropriate service.

Thus, using Rowley as a sword and not allowing the school districts to use it as a shield, one can argue in your case that the use of CART for your daughter is the only "appropriate" program being offered to the child and under Rowley, a service that should be provided.

Keep in mind that that your daughter has already prevailed and it is the school district that must win on appeal.

If you want some of the factual background on Rowley Jackie, you can use that citation above. Once again, I am off to another softball tournement this weekend, so good luck!
Rick
 
It is very unlikely for an appeal to win.
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Really? It happened in Rowley if I recall correctly. Initially they won the case, but it was overturned on appeal.
Trust me Jackie, organizations like AG Bell make it sound like mainstreaming is some sort of glorious utopia, but they don't tell you how difficult it is to get accomondations. I went to school in a fairly wealthy community, and even I got really horrible accomondations. I bet you anything it IS going to be appealed..........I mean it would be different if your daughter wasn't doing wicked well, but she IS.
And yes, the Rowley case was the one with the hoh student with deaf parents. Even with changes in education law and things like that it's still pretty much what parents can expect in the mainstream.
Also, with budget cuts and the cost of the war in Iraq, I don't think that it'll stand.........we might be able to get good accomondations occasionally, but in tough fiscal times they are the FIRST thing to be cut!
 
jillio said:
And I agree with Jazzy--I can pick out a deaf/hoh voice as soon as I hear it.
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You think so, huh? Well, grab your husband and your soon-to-be-received Ph.D and come to Moorhead, Minnesota and hear me speak. You wouldn't know that I have a severe hearing loss. In fact, better yet, drop me a pm and I'll give you my phone number and you can hear me on the phone.

$10 says jillio is full of shit on this one. Anyone else want in on the pot?
 
pek1 said:
You think so, huh? Well, grab your husband and your soon-to-be-received Ph.D and come to Moorhead, Minnesota and hear me speak. You wouldn't know that I have a severe hearing loss. In fact, better yet, drop me a pm and I'll give you my phone number and you can hear me on the phone.

$10 says jillio is full of shit on this one. Anyone else want in on the pot?
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I'm pming you as I reply. Get that phone number ready. Anyone want todo a conference call? And where the hell did my husband or by degree come into this challenge. By the way, if you paid a little closer attention, you would know that my husband has been dead for fifteen years.
 
jazzy said:
I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.
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Another $10 bet that jazzy's full of it, too. PM me, lads, get my phone number and prepare to eat crow. Also, I only accept money orders or cashier's checks for the amount of $10 when I proove your dh's wrong.:rockon:
 
pek1 said:
Another $10 bet that jazzy's full of it, too. PM me, lads, get my phone number and prepare to eat crow. Also, I only accept money orders or cashier's checks for the amount of $10 when I proove your dh's wrong.:rockon:
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Answer your pm. Double or nothing.
 
Well, folks, jsut got off the phone with Pete--he admitted he didn't think I would take him up on his offer!--and while he does have very good diction, there were some typically deaf qualities to his voice that he obviously does not hear himself. Particularly in the area of "s" "t". Andin overall resonance.
 
mostly deaf school and country have problems for battles with teachers,principals,whatevers if this story would getting more serious story they will getting headlines for sures! they have going to court against by school they will won cases or you never get money or whatevers that aint so easy for that!

i never been against my old school before but i know its so rough as battles and also WARS for more reasons on school cases!

mostly school and college students have problems with teachers,principals,supt,district,board of directors they will making more battles for court! they can going court every weeks how long you been going court and you would won this cases if you are smart!
 
pek1 said:
You think so, huh? Well, grab your husband and your soon-to-be-received Ph.D and come to Moorhead, Minnesota and hear me speak. You wouldn't know that I have a severe hearing loss. In fact, better yet, drop me a pm and I'll give you my phone number and you can hear me on the phone.

$10 says jillio is full of shit on this one. Anyone else want in on the pot?
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I'm all in!
 
jillio said:
Well, folks, jsut got off the phone with Pete--he admitted he didn't think I would take him up on his offer!--and while he does have very good diction, there were some typically deaf qualities to his voice that he obviously does not hear himself. Particularly in the area of "s" "t". Andin overall resonance.
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Want to do a phone call so u can see if I have a deaf voice or not?:giggle:
 
jillio said:
You're too late. I already called Pete's bluff, and spoke with him yesterday. BTW--you owe me some money!
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I was looking at breaking your phone number for your address to send a check, but it shows you were on a cell.:nono: Thought you were calling on a landline. PM me with your address.

By the way, how did you decifer my speech? :) Do you have schooling in that area?
 
pek1 said:
I was looking at breaking your phone number for your address to send a check, but it shows you were on a cell.:nono: Thought you were calling on a landline. PM me with your address.

By the way, how did you decifer my speech? :) Do you have schooling in that area?
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Yes, I do. Plus lots of experience. No need to send a check--all in good fun!
 
jillio said:
If the case is not ongoing, why all the media attention? Andif it is impossible to win an appeal, why is the school district wasting money and time on appeal? And, once again, due process is heard by an admisnistrative law judge--a magistrate, not a trial judge. If you got the services you wanted, the media attention is no longer necessary, is it?
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I am not saying the case is not ongoing. I saying that we have a verdict. I understand that it was an admins law judge. We were lucky to have a judge with a special education background. She was very clear in her verdict. What I also understand is that it is very rare that an appeal is won. The school district is wasting money. When they first appealed they said that they were not going to be provide CART because they didn't have to. Then my daughter's attorney found a case where a parent won and the school district was appealing but the federal judge said they had to provide what the due process judge ordered while the case was being appeal.
I also think that part of the reason they are appealing the case is because they know that my son is about to enter high school and so we will go through this all over again.
I not only contacted the media but also all of our elected officals for 2 reasons first to put pressure on the school district and second to bring attention to this issue.
 
shel90 said:
So that means the school district is wasting their time with an appeal if they r not going to win it? Iam trying to make sure I am reading u right.

Yea, I am glad that u won the fight cuz public schools really do not have any clue on how to fully meet deaf/hoh childrens' needs and since it is rare to find a teacher with an intensive training in deaf ed only working in the public schools nationwide, many administrators assume a lot of things like in your daughter's case, providing a sign language terp when she is not fluent in it yet. Same thing happened to me, as I mentioned before.

Also, too often the public schools hire people who know a few basic signs as educational interps which makes the problem for the children worse instead of better. I guess that's another job I can consider...be a deaf ed consultant for public schools but will they spend the money for it? Like your situation is a perfect example of public schools being restistance about spending more money to ensure that their deaf/hoh children's needs r fully met.
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Yes, Shel they are wasting their time and money. When they first appealed they thought they would not have to provide CART. An appeal generally takes a year or two, so they thought they would tie up this case in court and when a federal judge finally upheld the first verdict, my daughter would have finished high school. The other thing is that they probable thought I would give up but I never will. I think they are also scared because they know that my son will be entering high school soon and didn't want to apy for 2 kids. I have people I know in the district and that is what they have told me.
 
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