District files appeal against deaf student

[jillio]

Also when you use professional terminology ....

So, in your study, using professional terminology automatically makes it all true....???

No, just over your head.

 

[jillio]

[]***nodding agreement*** Here is a definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting to achieve different results.

We are expecting different results because we have different technology much more advcanced and we have different teaching methods. It is logical that we would have different results.[/QUOTE]

But the sad fact is that you are NOT getting different results....technology may have changed, but the nature of deaafness hasn't.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

We are expecting different results because we have different technology much more advcanced and we have different teaching methods. It is logical that we would have different results.

But the sad fact is that you are NOT getting different results....technology may have changed, but the nature of deaafness hasn't.[/QUOTE]

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.

 

[jazzy]

Did I say that my parents' mistakes were yours? Pls show me where did I say that. I, again, and again have said I am happy for u and your daughter. I , again, am talking about those who suffered from the oral only approach in their early years and how their parents said the same things as u and many other parents. It is such an old story whether the child is a success or not. It is time for people to stop saying that and come together to address this problem but it wont work if your concern is just for yourself only. I am assuming from the way you sound that u really are not interested in attacking the problem of many deaf children suffering academically. It sounds like u are interested in the successful oral deaf users only. If I am wrong, then I am wrong about u but it does seem like it here from your POVs. We all should be coming together to help those who were unsuccessful too. Guess it was just wishful thinking on my part. I am seeing that it seems to be not working so I will just work with the people who recognize this problem. Just too bad that we all cant work together well.

Shel. I am with u here. I do not believe it is our parents mistake by putting us into oral programs but they were mistake by listen and following what others were telling them about how to raise deaf kids. I think it is mistake for Rick, Cloggy and others who try to prove that their kids are doing well with being oralist and try to tell other parents to do follow their method.
I feel for u when u take over those unfortunely children with CI who are behind in their language development and emotionally delay.

 

[jazzy]

But the sad fact is that you are NOT getting different results....technology may have changed, but the nature of deaafness hasn't.

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.[/QUOTE]
I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Shel. I am with u here. I do not believe it is our parents mistake by putting us into oral programs but they were mistake by listen and following what others were telling them about how to raise deaf kids. I think it is mistake for Rick, Cloggy and others who try to prove that their kids are doing well with being oralist and try to tell other parents to do follow their method.
I feel for u when u take over those unfortunely children with CI who are behind in their language development and emotionally delay.

Hi Jazzy,
I do speak to a lot of hearing parents of deaf children. I never tell them they should take the oral route. They come to me because people have told them about my class and my children. I always tell parents that it is not going to be easy. I also always tell them that they cannot assume their child is going to have the same success that my children have had. I do give them information and contact numbers of the different other approaches in our area.

 

[jillio]

But the sad fact is that you are NOT getting different results....technology may have changed, but the nature of deaafness hasn't.

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.[/QUOTE]

Because the nature of deafness is still a communication and language issue. Deaf is still deaf. How can you not understand that? And yes, I work with college age, but deaf people have been going to college for many, many years.

The paper said that your daughter was difficult to understand.

And I agree with Jazzy--I can pick out a deaf/hoh voice as soon as I hear it.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.

I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.[/QUOTE]

Jazzy
Where are you located. I have no problem with your husband meeting my children, as long as he is not going to be make my children feel bad because they are oral. My children have been on many panels so they are use to people asking them questions. If he is not going to judge them and you are close to us, I would be more then happy to arrange a visit. I know somewhere on the web is an interview that our local news channel did on my daughter's story back in June 2007.

Jackie


Jackie

 

[jillio]

I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.

Jazzy
Where are you located. I have no problem with your husband meeting my children, as long as he is not going to be make my children feel bad because they are oral. My children have been on many panels so they are use to people asking them questions. If he is not going to judge them and you are close to us, I would be more then happy to arrange a visit. I know somewhere on the web is an interview that our local news channel did on my daughter's story back in June 2007.

Jackie

Helen Keller was on many panels, too--but her speech was extremely difficult to understand.
Jackie[/QUOTE]

 

[jackiesolorzano]

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.

Because the nature of deafness is still a communication and language issue. Deaf is still deaf. How can you not understand that? And yes, I work with college age, but deaf people have been going to college for many, many years.

The paper said that your daughter was difficult to understand.

And I agree with Jazzy--I can pick out a deaf/hoh voice as soon as I hear it.[/QUOTE]



She doesn't enunciate much, but she is understandable. This is what the newspaper said, they did not say they did not understand her. Can you image what it is like for a 16 year to have so much attention on her? She was nervous that day. And there was a photographer taking pictures at the same time the reporter was asking her questions. There was a story on our local news channel and you can hear her voice yourself.

I agree deaf is deaf and that has not changed what has changed is techonology.
I understand deaf students have been going to college for ever and ever. I never said they haven't. What I said is that the current college students you are now dealing with did not have the technology that my children have. And my children did not have the access to the technology that my students have.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillo,
I never heard Hellen Keller talk so I cannot judge her skills. I know my children skills. I know I have met several oral deaf adults that have that typical deaf speech. I know for a fact that my children do not have the typical deaf speech. I know that when people meet my children they are amazed that they are deaf. It seems like you are judging my children's skills but you have never met them. I do not think it is fair that you are judging my children or comparing them to someone but you have never met them or talk to them.

 

[jillio]

Because the nature of deafness is still a communication and language issue. Deaf is still deaf. How can you not understand that? And yes, I work with college age, but deaf people have been going to college for many, many years.

The paper said that your daughter was difficult to understand.

And I agree with Jazzy--I can pick out a deaf/hoh voice as soon as I hear it.

She doesn't enunciate much, but she is understandable. This is what the newspaper said, they did not say they did not understand her. Can you image what it is like for a 16 year to have so much attention on her? She was nervous that day. And there was a photographer taking pictures at the same time the reporter was asking her questions. There was a story on our local news channel and you can hear her voice yourself.

I agree deaf is deaf and that has not changed what has changed is techonology.
I understand deaf students have been going to college for ever and ever. I never said they haven't. What I said is that the current college students you are now dealing with did not have the technology that my children have. And my children did not have the access to the technology that my students have.[/QUOTE]

Thanks--you have jsut validated the point that jazzy made. And yes they did. I have several college students with CI and they have had them since childhood. And technology does not change the nature of deafness.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

And I agree with Jazzy--I can pick out a deaf/hoh voice as soon as I hear it.[/QUOTE]

I am sure you probable can pick you a deaf/hh voice in your current position because as you have mention before you are dealing with college students that have not had success in the oral route. Then of course you can pick out the voice and most people would be able too.

 

[jazzy]

I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.

Jazzy
Where are you located. I have no problem with your husband meeting my children, as long as he is not going to be make my children feel bad because they are oral. My children have been on many panels so they are use to people asking them questions. If he is not going to judge them and you are close to us, I would be more then happy to arrange a visit. I know somewhere on the web is an interview that our local news channel did on my daughter's story back in June 2007.

Jackie

Nope, he is not going to judge them at all. He usually corrected many friends of mine their speeches. Now one of my friend who rasied orally and now is considering CI. U know many judge me for being married my husband and I am not being part of D. I am used to it. We live an hour away from valley and I assume u still live in the SF valley. I must have missed news channel on your daughter's story last month bummer. It would be so interest to meet u all.


Jackie[/QUOTE]

 

[jazzy]

Hi Jazzy,
I do speak to a lot of hearing parents of deaf children. I never tell them they should take the oral route. They come to me because people have told them about my class and my children. I always tell parents that it is not going to be easy. I also always tell them that they cannot assume their child is going to have the same success that my children have had. I do give them information and contact numbers of the different other approaches in our area.

I am appreicate ur being honest with them. I missed my first 5 years of language so it had been hard on me to knowing others who are struggling same as I was. Yes time has change esp with new technology u know CI and Digital HA, I had high hope for better world for them than it was for my time and my generation.

 

[rick48]

WOW! That's a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black!

No, the above is an even better one!

 

[rick48]

Shel. I am with u here. I do not believe it is our parents mistake by putting us into oral programs but they were mistake by listen and following what others were telling them about how to raise deaf kids. I think it is mistake for Rick, Cloggy and others who try to prove that their kids are doing well with being oralist and try to tell other parents to do follow their method.
I feel for u when u take over those unfortunely children with CI who are behind in their language development and emotionally delay.

Jazzy,

Please show me where I have ever said that other parents should follow the same route as the one we chose for our daughter.

Instead of just making assumptions, if you had bothered to read any of my posts, you would see that I state clearly and often that while the choices we made for our daughter were the best for her, parents must choose the methods that are best for their child.

Again, there is no one correct or best way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

BTW I do not have to prove, my daughter is "doing well", the President of the NAD said it over 15 years ago.

Finally, I do not buy the "our parents are blameless because they listened to others" argument. Sorry, Charley but as parents it is our responsibility and obligation to make decisions for our children and if a parent kept a child in any program whatsoever for years with no or minimal development or progress then shame on them for not "listening" to their child and their needs but only "hearing" what they want to hear.

We never ruled out sign as an option but closely monitored our daughter's progress and development and she blossomed with her implant but rest assured if she did not, we would never have left her to flounder without language and a means of communication. We acted as parents, so lay the blame with someone else.
Rick

Remember to show me that post!

 

[jazzy]

Jazzy,

Please show me where I have ever said that other parents should follow the same route as the one we chose for our daughter.

Instead of just making assumptions, if you had bothered to read any of my posts, you would see that I state clearly and often that while the choices we made for our daughter were the best for her, parents must choose the methods that are best for their child.

Again, there is no one correct or best way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

BTW I do not have to prove, my daughter is "doing well", the President of the NAD said it over 15 years ago.

Finally, I do not buy the "our parents are blameless because they listened to others" argument. Sorry, Charley but as parents it is our responsibility and obligation to make decisions for our children and if a parent kept a child in any program whatsoever for years with no or minimal development or progress then shame on them for not "listening" to their child and their needs but only "hearing" what they want to hear.

We never ruled out sign as an option but closely monitored our daughter's progress and development and she blossomed with her implant but rest assured if she did not, we would never have left her to flounder without language and a means of communication. We acted as parents, so lay the blame with someone else.
Rick

Remember to show me that post!

U dont get it. That is all I am saying. I do know for fact John Tracy told my parent oral was must and signing was wrong. my parents had no choice at that time and they followed their method. I do blame John Tracy for lying to my parents about me. If you do not buy it then u do not know me or others at all.

There is one thing many parents did not know yet, it will hit them hard in later life. I will leave at it for u to find out. Good luck with your daugher and I am glad u are involved in her so much.


One more thing my prayer had been answered, many deaf kids nowdays are doing great than it was for me and others. For that I am so grateful.

 

[shel90]

But the sad fact is that you are NOT getting different results....technology may have changed, but the nature of deaafness hasn't.

How can you say that if the population you work with is college level? The changes I am talking about is in the past 10 to 15 years. There have be so many changes that it takes time for everything to catch up together. I have seen the results. If you meet my children in a store you would have no idea that they were deaf unless they told you. They do not have the typical deaf speech.[/QUOTE]

We know that speech skills are the most important to u judging from how u keep bringing up speech again and again. I am not talking about speech skills..I am talking about 100% access to language at all times. U even admitted that your daughter is unable to access to what her classmates are saying during classroom discussions. It is the same problem I had too and with many other deaf children and people who grew up with the oral method only. What are u talking about that with CIs are different? If things were different then we wouldnt have this problem with low literacy skills anymore, right? I am still seeing the same problems as 20 years ago..children as young as 3 and children as old as 13 to 14 being referred to my school cuz they were unable to pick up on spoken language and now have to play catch up. U even admitted that if u spot a child not picking up on oral language, u refer them to the TC classes. It is the same old story as it was 30 years ago. I really dont know what to think of this argument anymore cuz I am just seeing the same problems happening even with the more widespread use of CIs. I cant say I will support whatever works for the child cuz that means I would be ok with experimenting with different programs with each child and putting them at risk for language deprivation. I wouldnt feel good about myself if I support that approach.

This is how I feel as long as this problem still continues and I am trying to find a best solution to solve it and the only one I can think of is the BiBi approach. Yes, I understand that it is not allowed in the state of California but u have admitted that u prefer not to use sign to children until it is apparent that they are not picking up on spoken language. I guess it is personal cuz I am a deaf person myself and I just hate seeing that happen.

 

[shel90]

I would love to have my husband to judge of that with your kids' speech. He can tell if they are deaf or not whether they wear CI or HA.

Jazzy
Where are you located. I have no problem with your husband meeting my children, as long as he is not going to be make my children feel bad because they are oral. My children have been on many panels so they are use to people asking them questions. If he is not going to judge them and you are close to us, I would be more then happy to arrange a visit. I know somewhere on the web is an interview that our local news channel did on my daughter's story back in June 2007.

Jackie
Do the news bother to interview successful deaf people who have no oral skills? Not that I have read any... nor do deaf teachers at deaf schools who have worked hard with those who are language deprived and got them to catch up get public recognization? I dont know of any...if there are none, then there is a huge bias with the media!

Jackie[/QUOTE]