District files appeal against deaf student

[shel90]

Yeah I think that is my hardest thing. I do have one spanish speaking parent that is learning English with her daughter and her daughter is my highest student in class but because mom is doing everything on her part, It can be done but usually isn't

Before CIs were as popular as they are now, people would use me as their poster child for oral success and I HATED it...because it made people in the Deaf community in AZ (I grew up in AZ) hate and resent me despite having a Deaf brother who was very actively involved in the Deaf community. When I finally learned sign language at ASU, I tried to get involved with them but because they knew me thru my brother as the snobby oral deaf girl who refused to learn sign language, they rejected me BIG time even though I was learning sign language. I didnt give up so I moved to DC and got involved with the Deaf community there...it was tough cuz my signing skills werent good but I stuck it out and now all that is in the past. Whenever I return to AZ and see those people who rejected me, they are usually shocked by how fluent in ASL I have gotten in and they have apologized to me. I didnt hold any hard feelings towards them cuz looking back, I did look down on them cuz I could "talk". Gosh..what a mess!

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Wow! Thanks and that helps me to be less anal about my views against the oral philosophy. I just want others to stop looking at sign language as inferiror or making comments about deaf people not being able to function if they dont develop oral skills cuz I see so many deaf people who have no oral skills who have inspired me.
I can honestly and whole heartly tell you that I do not think ASL/sign language is inferior. I wanted my children if possible to be oral because I thought it would give them a better chance to different opportunites and maybe a better job market if they were oral. But I was ready if oral wasn't right them to switch like I mention before we move when my children were younger to an area that had a good oral and TC program. My goal was for them to be oral but I was ready in case they need a TC program. I have also seen many many deaf adults and children that only sign that are amazing. Deaf psychologist, teachers, college professor, engineers.

Ok..I want the same too..I am tired of fighting..but I keep on going cuz I know I wont give up on my beliefs but at the same time I do want to find a middle ground. It is tough sometimes...

I know isn't it trying to always be in battle mode. It seems like I always have to be in this mode when dealing with the admins at the schools. We have been lucky that we have had great teachers just not good admins.

 

[shel90]

We have something in common. Parents find out about my kids and how successful they are and I always tell them that it is different. Our family because we just had deaf kids changed our lives for them. I also feel like tearing out my hair because the implant be an amazing tool but never ever a miracle. Once on the news they told the story of a 2 year deaf girl getting an implant and on the first she hear her mom call her name and the little girl turn to her name, excuse my language full shit, newly implant child will not turn to their name


Pls dont worry about your use of foul language cuz I do it from time to time. I am guilty of using it here on AD. LOL!

 

[pek1]

A couple of years ago my deaf son asked me why his deaf friends in the special class are working at a 3rd grade level in math if they are in 7th grade. He said they should be learning Alegbra like he was.

Jackie,

I have a severe hearing loss (picture of me and hearing dog, Snickers, at left) and my 7th grade year was hell for me. It was so bad that my parents put me in a new, private Christian school (Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) program) and for 8th and 9th grade, I was given paces (workbooks) for 3rd and 4th grade english and math. We had different teachers the 9th grade year, but at home, for me, it was hell and a lot of screaming at me (no idea why) due to my school. I was partially in spec ed in 10th grade public school. I won't even discuss the woman who was in charge, as, last I saw, a couple of years ago, she had a different last name and was STILL in charge of it! Same high school!

 

[pek1]

My mom went to the school and demanded a change.

My mother did the same thing, except she went to every class I had and sat in the back. Nothing was accomplished and she didn't get any answers.

 

[VamPyroX]

Samantha has an adult notetaker. This notetaker really likes Samantha but she has missed many school days because of illness which is not her fault but still samantha misses out. The other thing even a good notetaker cannot write everything down everything that is being said. Samantha notetaker doesn't write everything down she feels that if a student says something mean Samantha shouldn't know about it. It is not fair that all the other students can hear these things but my daughter cannot. My daughter has the same rights as all the other students. She should be able to know why someone is laughing in class or why they are mad. She feels felt out. That is horrible to feel left out.

When I was in high school, I had a deaf classmate who would have a hearing classmate take notes for her. Those classmates were known to take great notes. Heh!

 

[shel90]

jillio,

I already discussed this and the air has been cleared. Are we having trouble reading, honey?

Let me announce this!!!!! Pek1 and I are all cool! No hard feelings between us!

 

[rick48]

Rick
Thank you so much for your words. I just don't get things sometimes with the deaf community why does it have to be one way or the other. Why can why not respect each others decision and support each other.
I would love the have contact info on the person you mention that has fought for CART and received it. In southern California there are 8 other high schools that are using it. I gave this info to the district, they never contact anyone. I have gave them Aaron Steinfield Doctoral paper that he wrote on CART and high school students. It is just so frustrating. I am so gald your daughter is doing well as my children are there are bumps on the road but isn't life like that general.
Just side note my son recieved his implant when he was three years old. I had to fight to get it because at time we did not have insurance because I was not working so I can be at home with the kids. My husband wasn't making very much money so because I fought with the state captiol and medi-cal and ccs, plus I called every elected offical I knew and made a trip up to Sacarmento it is now consider a surgery just like any other and now other people who do not have money for a ci can now get here in California. I guess I sort of know how to fight and will not give up.
We now have had 3 articles written in our local papers plus we were the leading story on the newscast on a Spanish news channel. I am trying to get the word.
The school really is just wasting money on attorneys especially since several other high schools in our area are already using CART

Jackie,

I will get in contact with them. Give me a few days as we are leaving for a softball tournament tomorrow and have to get in contact with the people.

I have found that for the most part the deaf community is tolerant of the choices we have made for our children but there are some in the Deaf community who are opposed to cochlear implants for children across the board (but this group keeps getting smaller) and others who respect your opinion as long as it is the same as their's! I am for allowing parents to have choices and options for their children for there is no one right way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

Have a happ July 4th!
Rick

 

[pek1]

Thank you, shel90. Perhaps I should have posted my apology here instead of addressing it in its own thread. I don't even recall where it is.

Seriously, jillio, there are no hard feelings. Really, though, I know not all of us have all day for a slow computer to read everything, but you needed to have kept reading and found this out.

Enough said.

 

[shel90]

Jackie,

I have a severe hearing loss (picture of me and hearing dog, Snickers, at left) and my 7th grade year was hell for me. It was so bad that my parents put me in a new, private Christian school (Accelerated Christian Education (ACE) program) and for 8th and 9th grade, I was given paces (workbooks) for 3rd and 4th grade english and math. We had different teachers the 9th grade year, but at home, for me, it was hell and a lot of screaming at me (no idea why) due to my school. I was partially in spec ed in 10th grade public school. I won't even discuss the woman who was in charge, as, last I saw, a couple of years ago, she had a different last name and was STILL in charge of it! Same high school!

Ohhhh I do not even want to repeat my 7th grade year even for a million dollars!

 

[jackiesolorzano]

jillio,

I already discussed this and the air has been cleared. I'm also very educated, but you don't see me flaunt my degrees on here, so take it easy and have another bite of crow.

I agree with you so much with Jillio. I actually have a couple of degrees and a couple fo credentials and only work with young deaf children, this is what I see day in and day out, in addition I have the pleasure of only having two deaf children. I did not like the fact that Jillio had to throw around her degrees

 

[jackiesolorzano]

My mother did the same thing, except she went to every class I had and sat in the back. Nothing was accomplished and she didn't get any answers.

I have done the same thing as your mom. Once there needed to be some major changes and the school was not willing to do that so instead of fighting I pulled my kids and took them with me to school I was teaching. It was the best decision I have made.
Most of the time though I would go observe in my kids mainstream classes and the case carrier would come with me. I would just suggest some changes and she would do them right away. Over all most of time my children's teachers have been open to suggestion not always. The only time they would not be open is when it involved a lot of money like CART right now
I have learned over the years what battles to fight and what battles to give up.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

When I was in high school, I had a deaf classmate who would have a hearing classmate take notes for her. Those classmates were known to take great notes. Heh!

I am sure that can be the case but most of the times student notetakers are usually the brighter students and so they take notes for themselves and they do not need as many notes as my daughter would

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jackie,

I will get in contact with them. Give me a few days as we are leaving for a softball tournament tomorrow and have to get in contact with the people.

I have found that for the most part the deaf community is tolerant of the choices we have made for our children but there are some in the Deaf community who are opposed to cochlear implants for children across the board (but this group keeps getting smaller) and others who respect your opinion as long as it is the same as their's! I am for allowing parents to have choices and options for their children for there is no one right way to raise any child, even a deaf child.

Have a happ July 4th!
Rick

You are so right RicK. I am for giving the parents all the options and letting them make inform decisions. There is a book that I always give new parents and that is Choices in Deafness. It talks about oral, signing, cued speech and I think Bi-Bi. I also tell parents it would good for them to talk to people in each field. And my final thing whatever their choice they need completely embrace and fall it completely through not half hearted.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillio,
I don't remember where I read that you said that I was looking for feedback not sympathy. Honestly I was looking for neither. I am trying to stay on top of everything going on with our due process case and all the media we have been receiving. I found out about this thread because I google my daughter's name and this thread came up. I read everything and just want to clarify somethings.
I don't understand why if I can respect the decision you have made for your son why can't you respect my decisions. I am sure that there extreme oralist out there just as they are extreme Deaf culture people out there.
I am trying to make our school district provide an accomdation that my daughter needs. I know that once we get this other deaf students signing or oral can get this written in their IEP. I know that several of daughters friends both oral and signing want CART and are waiting for our case to be settle so that they can get it written in their IEP.
I feel we are doing a good for all deaf kids in our area.
What I was looking for was to clarify our position and for some support. I don't need anybody's sympathy.
I also read that someone said that my daughter should sign better so she can use an interpeter, my answer to that is why does my daughter have to change to make it easier for the school.
Special education laws state that the school must respect and encourage my daughter's preferred mode of communication, which they are not and you are not either.
You might think that I pushing oral on my daughter, which I did when they were young but now, we have many talks about how my husband and I are want the best for her and if she wants to shut off her voice and just sign then that is what we will all do.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillo,
You mention about interpeter and where did I get my information about them not being able to interpeter everything being said. I was wondering where did you get your information.
I was think back and I did speak to many interpeters in many different areas. Are there any interpeters out there. Is my information incorrect. I know that there is not a sign for every spoken word. Am I wrong.
I also know that if students are talking and the teacher too there is no way for the interpeter to interpet everything being said.
I also know that a CART provider has to type at least 220 words per minute.
I have spoken to my VRS dealer and he is HH and his wife is deaf, he told that for his wife and him the first choice would be to have a interpeter and CART but if given the option of only one it would be CART.
I also know that CART would given my daughter a transcript so if she missed anything during class or didn't understand something we could go over it at the end of the day you cannot do that with an interpeter.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillio,
You are so right that my daughter has some difficulty in classes understanding everything. She is so bright that she is able to figure out what she misses. With CART we would avoid this of her missing information. This is what I am fighting for not just for my daughter but all the other deaf kids in our area.
In past she has missed information but this is where I fill my job is to help her understand what she has missed.
I love doing this because it has made us so much closer.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Hi all,
I wanted to give you briefly my background. As I mention before I have 2deaf oral children and I am an oral teacher of deaf. What I didn't mention is that I did not get my college degrees until after I had my children. I needed to make sense of why I was given 2 deaf children. I wanted to help other parents who were going to go through what we went through. I went to college when my son was in kindergarten I arranged my schedule around theirs. My total focus in college was on deafness. All of my projects were always focus on deafness both oral and signing. I have a master's in special education. I have received my teacher training at John Tracy Clinic.
I really love John Tracy Clini's philosphy not because they are oral but because of required parent involvement. I have not seen a program that demads so much parent involvement as John Tracy Clinic. I have seen both gooor oral programs and sign programs out here but never have seen one with such huge parent requirement.
When my children were first diagnosis, I had no idea what to do. I begin to hear things like my kids wouldn't read above a 3 or 4th grade level. This was just not acceptable to me. I felt powerless and as I began my parent classes at John Tracy I learn about the laws that affect deafness and more importantly I learned that I would make the biggest difference in my children's lives and for that I will always have a special place in my heart for John Tracy.
AGAIN I will always be greatful to John Tracy not because of the oral but because of the education they gave me as a parent and teacher.

John Tracy has also changed from where they started. I saw it alot of it when my children where there. If a child was not progressing orally, they would tell the parents and give them a chance to look for other programs and if the parents wasn't ready change they did tell parents they had certain amount of time but their child needed to be in another program and they couldn't stay at John Tracy.

 

[shel90]

Hi all,
I wanted to give you briefly my background. As I mention before I have 2deaf oral children and I am an oral teacher of deaf. What I didn't mention is that I did not get my college degrees until after I had my children. I needed to make sense of why I was given 2 deaf children. I wanted to help other parents who were going to go through what we went through. I went to college when my son was in kindergarten I arranged my schedule around theirs. My total focus in college was on deafness. All of my projects were always focus on deafness both oral and signing. I have a master's in special education. I have received my teacher training at John Tracy Clinic.
I really love John Tracy Clini's philosphy not because they are oral but because of required parent involvement. I have not seen a program that demads so much parent involvement as John Tracy Clinic. I have seen both gooor oral programs and sign programs out here but never have seen one with such huge parent requirement.
When my children were first diagnosis, I had no idea what to do. I begin to hear things like my kids wouldn't read above a 3 or 4th grade level. This was just not acceptable to me. I felt powerless and as I began my parent classes at John Tracy I learn about the laws that affect deafness and more importantly I learned that I would make the biggest difference in my children's lives and for that I will always have a special place in my heart for John Tracy.
AGAIN I will always be greatful to John Tracy not because of the oral but because of the education they gave me as a parent and teacher.

John Tracy has also changed from where they started. I saw it alot of it when my children where there. If a child was not progressing orally, they would tell the parents and give them a chance to look for other programs and if the parents wasn't ready change they did tell parents they had certain amount of time but their child needed to be in another program and they couldn't stay at John Tracy.

Curious... It is apparent that most deaf children of hearing families are placed in oral programs at first so I just have a question about that program..what is the amount of time allowed before making the decision or conclusion that the deaf child is not making progress in picking (developing language) up on oral language? When they are in their toddler years, is it hard to tell which child is developing full language and which is not?

That's what I really dont understand is that we get children who are elementary and even middle school aged referred to our program because they fell so far behind. Why wait so long until they are at the point where motivation to learn is completely gone due to years of being frustrated learning? That's what irks me the most.

For me, keeping the child in an oral only approach for years knowing that the child is struggling with picking up on spoken language is not acceptable but others see it differently. That's why I prefer to use both languages starting from day one to minimize the chances of the children not developing language acquisition.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Jillio,
I want to explain partly why my daughter does not want me to sign with her. I am first generation American. My dad was from Europe and my mom is from Mexico. Spanish and Hungarian was my first language. I actually like to call myself a Hungry Mexican. My husband was born and raised in Central America. He came to his country as a teenager.
When we found out the kids were deaf, the doctors told us that we shouldn't speak two language around them. So we stop speaking Spanish. I would not allow anyone to speak Spanish in my home. It was kind of wierd because it was strange to hear English coming out of my mom's mouth. She had a good command of English but growing up she always spoke to me in Spanish and I answered in English. When I was young it was not acceptable to speak Spanish unlike it is today where in my area everyone speaks Spanish. not really in my city but in our county we have many spanish speaking communities
ABout 5 years once my kids had a solid foundation in spoken English we begin to speak Spanish in our home. But with my husband I only English unless we are upset or what to say something that I did not want my children to understand. So my daughter says that's what she wants, she at times doesn't want me to know what she is telling her friends. My command of sign language when her friend are signing is that I understand about 70%. I think at times when she is telling them secrets she doesn't want me to know. She says well you speak Spanish to dad when you don't want me to understand.


The other thing I want to mention is that we are very lucky where we live. My daughter can immerse herself in the oral world or in the Deaf culture if she wants.

Because of my background and culture I do not want them to move away to college so this is why we live where we live. Me wanting them to stay has nothing to do with their deafnes but everything to so with my background and culture. I would rather move away to small city where house prices are not so expsensive. Our cost of living in southern California is awful.
But in our city we are about 10 minutes away from MTSAC which is a community collge has a great program for kids that are deaf. They have best program around for interpeters to become interpeters. Plus the person in charge of the kids with disabilities is deaf herself. That is if she wants to start at a community college.
If she wants to go directly to a 4 year college we have Cal State Nortridge about 35 minutes away from our home, which has an amazing deaf studies program.
If she wants a strictly hearing college we have about 15 colleges within 30 minutes of our home.
I have told my children over and over they do not have an option of going to college. They will go. Their options are where they will go and what they will study.