Originally Posted by Audiofuzzy
As I've said- I am only stating facts about CI - how do you know what would happen if you could wear it everyday? that has nothing to do with your unfortunate symptoms, or family.
The facts is not always correct.
Now Liebling let's not go crazy with the "facts not correct" theme because of Flip's article, OK?
just because something is a "fact" does not mean it is suspicious on principle.
It's one thing to be wary of a few million scientific studies another to say "it's a fact the sun is bright". or are you going to argue now that the sun being bright is not correct fact, too?
I said: turns out Puyo couldn't wear CI. So Puyo couldn't exercise, exercise, exercise hearing with CI. remember what the other poster said: "I am 40 but my brain is like 2- 3 year old, I have to learn how to hear with CI" ??
That is why I said maybe
if Puyo was not having problems with his mouth and headaches, THEN maybe he would use CI more and more, and more, and with time he, too, could learn how to hear over the phone.
we won't know it because he can't use CI. but it's possible it WOULD be better.
that is why I said Puyo don't know if the CI would work better for him or not because he can't spend more time on it. he only spend 4 months wearing it. not Puyo fault.
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That have completely NOTHING to do with what I wrote. I was writing about human speech and language development, not you.
Do I understand correct that you beleive that CI is the one who develop human's speech and language, not people themselves?
Yes, but you have to first learn to separate many layers surrounding speech and language development.
You must separate them,and dicuss them separately or we will never clear this up.
From biological point of view, human brain is NOT finished developing AFTER birth. I mean the body of the brain (in the head) is done, but the processes that happen inside the brain are not.
When the baby is born, the brain is making neural pathways connections, thus is developing.
this happens regardless of any parental intervention, it is just a part of human development.
BUT
the brain will develop as much as much it receives stimuli from the outside.
the more stimuli, the more developed brain. to develop ability to hear and speak you need to hear sounds, and so you repeat what you hear, and thus develop speech.
This is when the CI and parents enter.
Without ability to hear, no matter what will the parents do the deaf baby will not hear, and the baby's brain will not make neural connections.
After the age of three the making of these connections slow down and eventually stop. No matter how much stimuli AFTER that age - the brain is mostly finished making connections. It won't learn much anymore. It will some but never as much as before age of three.
If the deaf baby is implanted with CI, then the baby can hear.
If the baby is implanted before the age of three, the brain will make as many connections as the baby will hear sounds from the outside - because the brain is still in the actively developing mode.
Now, if the baby will only be implanted with CI but not be exposed to sounds - then the baby will hear some but not as much as the baby who will spend a lot of time in hearing therapy.
If the deaf baby will not have CI, or only HA before the age of 3, then the baby will not hear antyhing or only as much as HA allows. Thus no matter how much parents will work the baby's brain will not be developing as much sounds as in the baby with CI.
That is why it is important to understand first the process of human development from purely biological point of view, before start mixing it with raising a baby.
Do you understand me now?
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It doesn't matter what situation - it is always the attitude and communication skills that play the role in relationship. If my son was sure this is what he needs and decided to change his gender, I would respect it.
*scratch my head* -
You support parent's decision on CI surgery for their children but you said different here... You said that you respect if your son decided to change his gender...
The gender changing surgery is not done for under 18 years old anyway. Unless it's medical matter requiring immediate decision.
besides this is completely different situation - it has nothing to do with brain developing senses before age of 3.. and anyway I only was asked "what would I do if". I support both in those cases.
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I am sorry, but what are you talking about? I am talking about people who had NO USE for HA, but can now hear with CI.
I am sorry that you still can't get it and can't convince it.
I am sorry but I don't get you. I am saying some deaf people can not hear with HA because their hearing loss is too great. But they can hear with CI (if implanted).
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CI is more advanced technologically than HA, period. It has nothing to do with parent's support and willingness to work.
Disagree and would suggest you to RE-READ WHarley's post. Without parental or family's support, CI or HA users know nothing... what kind of noise/sound is about... they don't know either their speech is correct or not... ????
Again, you must separate the subject of discussion because I am confused - what are you discussing, exactly? the technological POV or practical POV?
I was talking about technology. Only.
From technological POV the simplest CI is way more advanced than most advanced HA. because HA can only amplify sounds while the CI does more than that.
From practical POV of course just putting either CI or HA in there is not enough to have benefits.
CI and HA only help if the people are willing to learn anything with their development skill.
Correct, but also don't forget about human development from biological POV.
I know that CI is better techology but really depend on people's physical body and mind either it work on them or not.
Oh, I see you do know that
Don't confuse two things: language development and ability to hear and speak.
I can see that you has a little knowledge.
?????
Many hearing children of deaf parents have their delay with their speech development until they start their first kindergarten and catch it real fast.
Correct, but again from "biological" POV they do hear every sound that surrounds them. Just because their parents are deaf are unable to speak doesn't mean they do not produce ANY sounds. On the contrary deaf people can be very noisy - they watch TV loud, they move about making a lot of sounds, majority of deaf people do have some ability to speak so they do communciate verbally with their babies (googoo, coo etc) and so on.
the baby hears all that, and also if you take your baby anywhere - shopping, playground, doctor's office -anywhere - the baby IS exposed to sound.
so the conenctions in the brain DO happen, just not in as optimal way as of the baby's with hearing parents. and like you say they catch up later well. I knew that.
My both children grow up at deaf world more than hearing world. Sign language are their first language.
I have seen that happen many times, and without exception all the children were able to develop speech.
I accept that my both boys are hearing and want them to join hearing world, that's why CPS send my boys to child minder with their cost to develop their speech skill until they went their first kindergarten when they were 3 years old.
That is great! you are a great parent.
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because they COULD HEAR. it only matters when the child is born deaf, not when the parents are deaf.
Can hear what? Just can hear?
As you probably read about human development by now, I would say yes just hearing is what matter most. any sounds.
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I also don't understand why nobody is getting the clue from this:
I do not understand why nobody accept CI and HA users's experience in real life and depend on studies, professionals, books, etc. instead of both sides.
No, I do accept all, it's just I like to have explanation why something is not working as it should. was it because the child was born deaf and implanted past the age of three? was it because it was implanted before the age of three but not taught speech and sounds immediately? was the hearing loss more pronounced than it was first thought? was the adult implantee willing to work as hard as it is needed? was the body rejecting implant? is the hearing loss type not right for the CI? etc.
Not every implanted person is well infomed about all this. For example, some people didn't knew it will be so much hard work to learn to hear.
Some don't understand the importance of early implantation.
Exactly, it's parents who feed the language and speech skill to their children with the help from HA or CI, not HA or CI itself.
Correct, but if the child can't hear all the parental work in the world won't help. One depends on the other.
Fuzzy
