Designing A Hearing Baby

[Maria]

Amazing... I just explained to you that .. if you can hear with a HA, you don't need a CI. It is not the choice between one or the other.
My daughter could not hear with a HA.!!
So, YOU do not qualify.
Are you so against CI because you do not qualify? Is that it?

Why can you not be happy for deaf children that can hear with a CI - like you can hear with a HA??

Video: Have a look at Lotte's website. Look for a video there....
Ah, what the hell. With your non-upgraded system it might take a while... here's a link...

I checked the link you provided. What kind of language does this girl use ? Is she signin' in ASL ?

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Why you use those word "hearing impaired" instead of HOH or deaf?

Why not? I AM hearing impaired, and so are you, and so is almost everyone else here. and FYI I use both terms, also.

You claim that you have sufficient education on CI but I see is you depend on the books and doctors, collect not CI users's experiences. sufficient education?

I already explained that a person that is not trained on the subject has no way to correctly interpret the data. Therefore, I preffer to get education from the professionals. but I do read opinions persons with CI as well. I just told you that before.

Why should Shel90 do when the parents did not go to her for advice or whatever?

I was never discussing that.

Yes I know that the people claim that CI is better advantage techology than HA.

CI is better technology than HA, no matter how advanced the new HAs are -they are nowhere close to CI range.


If you chose late (implant) your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time.

The most intensive period of speech and language development for humans is during the first three years of life, a period when the brain is developing and maturing. These skills appear to develop best in a world that is rich with sounds, sights, and consistent exposure to the speech and language of others.

There is increasing evidence suggesting that there are "critical periods" for speech and language development in infants and young children. This means that the developing brain is best able to absorb a language, any language, during this period. The ability to learn a language will be more difficult, and perhaps less efficient or effective, if these critical periods are allowed to pass without early exposure to a language.

Speech and Language Developmental Milestones [NIDCD Health Information]

Do you Liebling can know what my feeling on using TTY is?
of course you CAN NOT know even though you too use TTY.

I was showing by example how Maria can not speak for the child. the way you can't for me.


so tired... good night...

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

I found somethin'. You may want to read Alex's thread : " Sign language for baby ".

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-news/16514-sign-language-baby.html

Enjoy readin' and learn somethin' from there.

 

[Hwy99]

Where did I say it's your FAULT??? I said the problem might be you - you may simply be extra sensitive to foreign object in your body. You may have extra sensitive nerves and therefore you feel the sound vibration more so and than any other person, in more places. Maybe you have super sensitive thingy in your ear and that's why CI cause you headaches.

You yourself wrote many of your friends enjoy CI with no problems.

Of course it's not your fault that you responded to CI that way, as well as it's not CI's fault way that it caused you those symptoms. It is responsible for your symptoms, yes, but most people accept CI with no problem.

My friends enjoy it WITHOUT the headaches, brain throw the sounds in other place in the body, getting on the nerves, whatever I experience. That is why they wore it and happy with it, not me.

And what's more, I born with very sensitive body, maybe I guess, and is that my fault? Of course not. Nor the CI's fault. I don't know if CI is right for me, and CI itself don't know if it can help me, and my body don't like the sounds, there is NOTHING to blame.

This is still not a lie. A CI is able to achieve that. Are you saying that there are no CI implantees that can hear music or talk on the phone, while they couldn't do that with HAs?

You wore your CI for only 4 months, and you yourself wrote "you didn't know learning to use a CI would be such a hard work". meaning, most likely you didn't really worked much to learn to use your CI.

Well, don't you mind if I ask you one question?

Why I only wore it for 4 months and sometimes wear it after that? (I think you know the answer)

And YES I do hear the phone, music, etc with the HA but unclear, the CI is just the same to me. It's the individuals, you can't expect every deaf person to have the exactly same experience.

So, perhaps if you were willing to seriously work at it, maybe in a year or two you COULD be able to hear over the phone or understand music with no plm.
I am not pushing you into using your CI - I am simply saying the possibility of hearing much better with CI could be there for you. waiting.

Everyday wearing my CI? With numb inside my mouth, headaches attack every hour or two, feel irrogrant by my families, my nerves going up dramatically? Tsk tsk tsk I don't think so, I prefer to wear it when I am expecting the sounds to come up.

It could be that he, like you, was implanted too late, or/and like you wasn't trying very hard.

He wore it everyday and he is the one who recommend me to have the CI.

I agree they shouldn't say "will", they should say "may".

Exactly, but should add "If you work on your experience with the CI, you may be able to hear the phone, radio, etc."

The audiologist is not neccessarily lying. as I've said before, maybe some people require more work, hard work. maybe you still have a chance.

Hmm okay I guess, but I don't care whatever the audiologist said, I only care about my health before questioning any surgical produces from now on.

That is because there is only very short period of time in human life when they develop hearing and speech. Once. It happens before the child is two, three years old.
The human is NOT born with ability to understand sound. The baby can hear but the baby does not understand what it hears. The baby learns over time to recognize sounds. among many things - thru repetitions.
If the baby is born deaf, then it is very hard if not impossible for the baby to learn sounds.
You were born deaf, so never learned ALL sounds. Only what you were able with your HAs. So, it is not possible for you to suddenly "hear" - you need in a way to learn all over how to hear - much like a baby. even now.
(The same is with blind people. The newborn can not see properly. Their sight develops daily. If the blind person learns to recognize shapes by touch, and one day suddenly that person has surgery and its sight is restored, that person does not understand what it sees.
Watch the movie with Val Kilmer "At First Sight" so you can understand what I am talking about.)
So, while the CI is much different than HA, it does not mean just anyone who put it in will suddenly be able to hear "normal". It's more possible for late deafened person.

Sorry, my body is part of me, my brain and my body agree to reject wearing CI everyday.

I don't think you are stupid. I think in some areas you lack information.
I am considering CI. If CI would cause me some problems (like yours) I would be sorry to not be able to use it.
If I ever get one, I know I probably will have to work extremely hard to understand thru it. But I think it would be worth it.

Okay good luck with the CI, I will be more happy if you receive the CI and experience with it instead of being a person without a CI and taking the arguement with other CI users.

The facial surgery is not the problem - the problem is the husband's attitude, and lack of proper communication between husband and wife. It's sad when that happens.
Although I think the wife is better off without a jerk for a husband

Okay then other example, what if your son decide to change to a woman and undergo the operation of the sex change? How would you feel about that? Surgical Produces can be very important for the relationship invole with families and friends.

 

[Maria]

Why not? I AM hearing impaired, and so are you, and so is almost everyone else here. and FYI I use both terms, also.




I already explained that a person that is not trained on the subject has no way to correctly interpret the data. Therefore, I preffer to get education from the professionals. but I do read opinions persons with CI as well. I just told you that before.



I was never discussing that.



CI is better technology than HA, no matter how advanced the new HAs are -they are nowhere close to CI range.


If you chose late (implant) your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time.

The most intensive period of speech and language development for humans is during the first three years of life, a period when the brain is developing and maturing. These skills appear to develop best in a world that is rich with sounds, sights, and consistent exposure to the speech and language of others.

There is increasing evidence suggesting that there are "critical periods" for speech and language development in infants and young children. This means that the developing brain is best able to absorb a language, any language, during this period. The ability to learn a language will be more difficult, and perhaps less efficient or effective, if these critical periods are allowed to pass without early exposure to a language.

Speech and Language Developmental Milestones [NIDCD Health Information]



I was showing by example how Maria can not speak for the child. the way you can't for me.

so tired... good night...

Fuzzy

I CAN speak through my own experience. It's UP to the parents to take my words for it or not. You can NOT say that I can speak for the child.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Audiofuzzy's post
I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

Shel90 responsed Fuzzy's post
By experiencing headaches, uncomfortable noises, and pain after the implantion, how is it Pyo's fault? Maybe u can enlight all of us and explain any strategies people with those problems can control them since it is not the CI's fault but their fault?

I guess it is the children's fault that they were unable to benefit from their CIs? Maybe u can come and work at my school to teach them how to make their CIs become beneficial for them since it is never the CI's fault for anything.

*nodding agreement*

Cloggy said that HA doesn't work on his daughter but CI does. I respect him instead of accused him that it's his daughter's fault, not HA? Would Cloggy like to hear that? I bet he would not.

 

[Hwy99]

Yes I can image it!!! It's sad that they can't respect your wish.

Yupp that..


Very true, a lot of doctors say like that... "help you to hear etc. etc. " - it look like that it make the people thought it's easy to learn anything...

Exactly! That is what I thought when the doctor and audiologist told me that before I undergo the surgery.

Yes, I know how you and the CI users feeling and respect you and them because it's you and CI users who wear CI, not us, doctor or whatever...

Yupp some of us have different experiences, it's depends on individuals.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Where did I say it's your FAULT??? I said the problem might be you - you may simply be extra sensitive to foreign object in your body. You may have extra sensitive nerves and therefore you feel the sound vibration more so and than any other person, in more places. Maybe you have super sensitive thingy in your ear and that's why CI cause you headaches.

You said when you tried to compare CI with car.

Fuzzy's post
I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

Of course it's not your fault that you responded to CI that way, as well as it's not CI's fault way that it caused you those symptoms. It is responsible for your symptoms, yes, but most people accept CI with no problem.

Like what I said before that CI or HA work on some people or not... It depend on to contact their mind and body. It has nothing do with CI and HA itself but the people themselves who have good willing. Nobody are fault...

This is still not a lie. A CI is able to achieve that. Are you saying that there are no CI implantees that can hear music or talk on the phone, while they couldn't do that with HAs?

Oh yes, many "HOH" can hear music or talk on the phone with HA. I withnessed them in real life... They told me that they are really deaf without wear HA.

Again, some work on CI or HA... really depends.

The audiologist is not neccessarily lying. as I've said before, maybe some people require more work, hard work. maybe you still have a chance.

Nobody say the audiologist are liar but they influence the people in the wrong way when they know the people didn't moviate enough to learn to hear the sounds... They should let them know that it's work hard...

It's never the children's "fault". If someone is at fault AT ALL, is adults who take care of and are responsible for the children. besides, I never claimed CI is only successful when someone hears 100%.

I agree with you on this .

I never claimed CI is supposed to work for anybody, and in the same way at that.

Accord your posts, I had the feeling that you beleive that CI is work for anybody, not HA.

of course it works differently for everyone. All I was saying there is always an explanation why is that.

Exactly

And that the CI has capability to assist the way it's claimed it should do. I am just stating the fact.

CI or HA are the one who develop the children to hear only if they have good willing and get their parent's support...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yupp some of us have different experiences, it's depends on individuals.

Yes, that's right.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I found somethin'. You may want to read Alex's thread : " Sign language for baby ".

http://www.alldeaf.com/deaf-news/16514-sign-language-baby.html

Enjoy readin' and learn somethin' from there.

for link to get my attention... I am going to post there soon.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I already explained that a person that is not trained on the subject has no way to correctly interpret the data. Therefore, I preffer to get education from the professionals. but I do read opinions persons with CI as well. I just told you that before.

Okay, I respect your POV.

CI is better technology than HA, no matter how advanced the new HAs are -they are nowhere close to CI range.

There're cons/pros between HA and CI. I am for HA first until I am familiar with HA then later CI or not.
Advantages & Disadvantages: Hearing Aids vs. Cochlear Implants for Those with Severe Hearing Loss

If you chose late (implant) your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time.

Okay, let me share the example about hearing children of deaf parents:

Do my 2 hearing boys miss under 2 years speech and language development because of our deafness and use our sign language?

I am proud to tell you that my both hearing boys know both worlds... They can sign to us like deaf and act like hearing at hearing world. I do not see anything that they missing their speech and language development.

The child-minder develop them with speech and language when they were under 2 years old. I do not see that they missing 2 years speech and language development...

I have seen a lot of CI or HA children who wish to have CI or HA - talk & hear well because they want it.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

CI is better technology than HA, no matter how advanced the new HAs are -they are nowhere close to CI range.


If you chose late (implant) your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time.

The most intensive period of speech and language development for humans is during the first three years of life, a period when the brain is developing and maturing. These skills appear to develop best in a world that is rich with sounds, sights, and consistent exposure to the speech and language of others.

There is increasing evidence suggesting that there are "critical periods" for speech and language development in infants and young children. This means that the developing brain is best able to absorb a language, any language, during this period. The ability to learn a language will be more difficult, and perhaps less efficient or effective, if these critical periods are allowed to pass without early exposure to a language.

Speech and Language Developmental Milestones [NIDCD Health Information]

Fuzzy

Oh yes, I have another example:

You know that we learn everyday and never stop as long as we are alive... Right?

It make no difference either we missing or not... but still, we (hearing and deaf) still learn EVERYDAY rest of our lives when something new comes...

A person willing to focus something to get information when she/he want to know which another person doesn't.

One of many examples:

I watched my hearing co-worker took few days off of her leave annual to watch her sick child and question her about this. All what she said is "I have to... who watch my sick child because my MIL work etc." until I have my first baby... and search for the rights how and who takes care of when my child is sick... what do etc and question Public Health Insurance Officer... until I get an answer/information from them... My co-worker was like when I took unpaid leave from my employer and get paid from Health Insurance company to compare my wage to nurse my sick child or widow parent until my child or widow parent is better.

She is hearing and I am deaf... What a difference...

Like what I said is depend on people's good willing with the help from their parents or whatever..., not CI or HA itself who help people to develop with speech and language.

 

[Cloggy]

..........
You know that we learn everyday and never stop as long as we are alive... Right?

It make no difference either we missing or not... but still, we (hearing and deaf) still learn EVERYDAY rest of our lives when something new comes...

A person willing to focus something to get information when she/he want to know which another person doesn't.
.........

Sometimes I don't get it. Many people have shown articles showing that there is a huge difference between early and late implantation for profoundly deaf children.
I guess you just refuse to read them, or just do not accept them.
Sure we learn all the time but that is not the same as the "window of oppurtunity" for children to learn speech.

For example this graph, showing the huge difference between children implanted between 1 and 3 and above 6 years of age.....

And when parents want their children to choose themself, the ae of the child will probably be beyond 14 years.
Do you see the difference between the decision to implant asap and implant later...

(From this study)

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Cloggy, I will look at 4 pictures you provided when I am home from work. I am here in the office and don't see the 4 pictures but just tiny with red cross.

I never say that I refuse to read the books but I don't mind to read and listen doctor/professor lecsure at parental conference on CI and HA issues because I need pros and cons on the both sides - how and why it doesn't work on different children/adult... how it come from etc? It's good to see CI and HA users around to share their postive and negative experiences because it's them who wear CI or HA. Yes I do read your and other websites... and read this and other forums...

I will let you know what I think when I look at 4 pictures later.

 

[Cloggy]

Cloggy, I will look at 4 pictures you provided when I am home from work. I am here in the office and don't see the 4 pictures but just tiny with red cross.

I never say that I refuse to read the books but I don't mind to read and listen doctor/professor lecsure at parental conference on CI and HA issues because I need pros and cons on the both sides - how and why it doesn't work on different children/adult... how it come from etc? It's good to see CI and HA users around to share their postive and negative experiences because it's them who wear CI or HA. Yes I do read your and other websites... and read this and other forums...

I will let you know what I think when I look at 4 pictures later.

I know you keep on open mind, that's why I am surprised you don't understand the reason for early implantation.

Have a look later.... Looking forward to hear from you.

 

[jillio]

Why not? I AM hearing impaired, and so are you, and so is almost everyone else here. and FYI I use both terms, also.




I already explained that a person that is not trained on the subject has no way to correctly interpret the data. Therefore, I preffer to get education from the professionals. but I do read opinions persons with CI as well. I just told you that before.



I was never discussing that.



CI is better technology than HA, no matter how advanced the new HAs are -they are nowhere close to CI range.


If you chose late (implant) your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time.

The most intensive period of speech and language development for humans is during the first three years of life, a period when the brain is developing and maturing. These skills appear to develop best in a world that is rich with sounds, sights, and consistent exposure to the speech and language of others.

There is increasing evidence suggesting that there are "critical periods" for speech and language development in infants and young children. This means that the developing brain is best able to absorb a language, any language, during this period. The ability to learn a language will be more difficult, and perhaps less efficient or effective, if these critical periods are allowed to pass without early exposure to a language.

Speech and Language Developmental Milestones [NIDCD Health Information]



I was showing by example how Maria can not speak for the child. the way you can't for me.


so tired... good night...

Fuzzy

Ypu really have no idea how offensive your posts are, do you? It would appear that your pragmatic language skills have been adversely affected by your deafness (i.e. "hearing impairment").

 

[jillio]

Sometimes I don't get it. Many people have shown articles showing that there is a huge difference between early and late implantation for profoundly deaf children.
I guess you just refuse to read them, or just do not accept them.
Sure we learn all the time but that is not the same as the "window of oppurtunity" for children to learn speech.

For example this graph, showing the huge difference between children implanted between 1 and 3 and above 6 years of age.....

And when parents want their children to choose themself, the ae of the child will probably be beyond 14 years.
Do you see the difference between the decision to implant asap and implant later...

If you concentrate only on the medicalized, pathological perspective of deafness and see the only benefit as being provided to the understanding and development of oral language skills, then these statistics and conclusions will hold up. However, if you conduct the same research using children who have been provided a rich linguistic environment and have been givent he opportunity to develop language, and all its implications, in both manual and auditory/oral forms, you will see that the "benefits" gap is narrowed. The deciding factor is what the expectation of the CI is. Is it expected that the child implanted will become fully oral and function as a hearing child linguistically and educationsally and socially, or is the expectation that the CI will wprovide sound perception? For the parents who have already taken steps to insure that their child is provided with an environment that allows for language acquisition from birth despite the fact that the child is deaf, and expects that the child will receive some benefit of sound perception, yet continues to focus on that child's needs for language development, the CI can provide a great deal of benefit. For the parent that does nothing, waiting on the implant to be done prior to attending totheir child's developmental needs, the implant does not provide as great a benefit. The difference ios not in the time of implantation regarding the language delays, but of the parents apathy in attending totheir child's needs from the very beginning.

 

[jillio]

You claim that you have sufficient education on CI but I see is you depend on the books and doctors, collect not CI users's experiences. sufficient education?[/COLOR]

Exactly, Liebling. If you are unable to apply what you have read in a book or heard from a doctor or audiologist to real life situations, the information is not really education. Life rarely shows the same results that are obtained in a laboratory. The key is in being able to apply the results obtained in the laboratory sucessfully to life.

 

[flip]

Sometimes I don't get it. Many people have shown articles showing that there is a huge difference between early and late implantation for profoundly deaf children.
I guess you just refuse to read them, or just do not accept them.
Sure we learn all the time but that is not the same as the "window of oppurtunity" for children to learn speech.

For example this graph, showing the huge difference between children implanted between 1 and 3 and above 6 years of age.....

And when parents want their children to choose themself, the ae of the child will probably be beyond 14 years.
Do you see the difference between the decision to implant asap and implant later...

(From this study)

I stumbled across this recent article in Wall Street Journal that perhaps can help some of you to understand this strange survey that was posted here. It is named "Most Science Studies Appear to Be Tainted By Sloppy Analysis".
Science Journal - WSJ.com

Do belivers in oralism, on an average, have less education as many of them seems to be easily confused by articles in journals and how they should interpret them? I seldom see this kind of behavior from belivers in bilingualism, here or other places. This is not meant as a rude or insulting question, just a curious observation.

 

[Cloggy]

................
If you concentrate only on the medicalized, pathological perspective of deafness and see the only benefit as being provided to the understanding and development of oral language skills, then these statistics and conclusions will hold up. However, if you conduct the same research using children who have been provided a rich linguistic environment and have been givent he opportunity to develop language, and all its implications, in both manual and auditory/oral forms, you will see that the "benefits" gap is narrowed.

Yeh, those spanish researchers must be stupid, and you are correct...
Just a questions: What's the percentage of "children who have been provided a rich linguistic environment and have been givent he opportunity to develop language, and all its implications, in both manual and auditory/oral forms" ???

And you are now assuming that these children were not in the study.... perhaps they were in the study... the children that got Ci later....

................The deciding factor is what the expectation of the CI is.

How is is that you suddenly decide that THAT is the deciding factor. Based on what?

You can't find any arguments against the study, and so you start making assumptions and preaching how well deaf children can do without CI.
THAT is not the issue here.
I was showing why a parent would make the decision to implant as early as possible.

................ Is it expected that the child implanted will become fully oral and function as a hearing child linguistically and educationsally and socially, or is the expectation that the CI will wprovide sound perception? For the parents who have already taken steps to insure that their child is provided with an environment that allows for language acquisition from birth despite the fact that the child is deaf, and expects that the child will receive some benefit of sound perception, yet continues to focus on that child's needs for language development, the CI can provide a great deal of benefit. For the parent that does nothing, waiting on the implant to be done prior to attending totheir child's developmental needs, the implant does not provide as great a benefit. The difference ios not in the time of implantation regarding the language delays, but of the parents apathy in attending totheir child's needs from the very beginning.

How did you pull that one out of your hat?
I agree it's immensly important, but why do you assume that that is not accounted for in the research. YOu are actually saying:
The 0-3 year olds are children with parents that support them, and the rest were all children that were basically neglected by their parents.
In effect, the study sucks... just because you say so....

Why do you have such a low opinion of researchers that provide data that supports the opposite of your ideas?