Designing A Hearing Baby

[shel90]

Wow. Liebling, you are the angel here, I swear.

I agree!

 

[rick48]

Fuzzy,

"Wired For Sound" is a great book written by a fantastic person. I know Bev and she is one of the many people who were there for my wife and I when we started the cochlear implant process for our daughter.

Cloggy - Lotte is an absolutely beautiful child and you and your wife should be proud of all that she is doing, keep on keep on and don't let the negative bunch here ever stop you.

 

[rick48]

Excuse me? If you are going to make comments regarding my activites, I suggest that you get your information straight. Who is spreading lies, now? Your information is woefully innacurrate. I will tell you as I have told cloggy, you need to refine your search techniques.

My search techniques are pretty good. Think about it for a while as to where you think I came up with that information.

You want me to "go away" so typical of a bully who cannot stand it when someone stands up to her but I am not going anywhere.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Oh my god..this is so funny! U are still making assumptions about my knowledge of CIs...I never said they shouldnt be implanted in babies. I have always said it is none of my business as these are not my children. If I have deaf children, I will decide for myself. I have never criticized anyone for implanting their children. As for the reasons why they work or dont work for some people, it varies but I CANT make the assumptions when I dont have the answer. I am not ASKING u or any other ADers on this board. I have asked those children's parents and audi's and I get "I dont knows." I dont need a book to read about the different reasons why the CI dont work for some people..I already know them but I cant claim that those certain reasons are why those children didnt get benefits. That would be making false assumptions about them.I am stating the fact that there are children who dont benefit from their CIs based on MY experience of teaching for 5 years. Maybe u are only exposed to the successful users?

I don't recall saying you are against implanting babies? or that you cirticize others for doing so?
I only always pointed out that your seemingly neutral opinion of CI "not working in some children for unknown reasons" is IMO not so neutral at all. can't you see this? I simply find -in certain circumstances- your opinon biased.
I say there must be a reason for CI not working, always - not "it just doesn't work". Either the child was implanted too late or, like PuyoPiyo, most likely wasn't receiving adequate therapy and exercises after surgery.

I dont need a book to read about the different reasons why the CI dont work for some people..I already know them

I find it curious. If you know, then why, for example this:

Arent there many adults who got CIs at a later age that have benefitted from them? This is what makes it confusing...if it is too late then why are there many CI users here on this board so happy about it and saying that they can hear better with it than their HAs? My aide got her CI 5 years ago and she said she can hear with it like a powerful HA. Of course I dont know wht she means by that since I dont have a CI but I can only assume that she is hearing better with it despite getting implanted at the age of 30?

Maybe u are only exposed to the successful users

No, from this forum alone I can see there is plenty uhappy CI-ers, unhappy to the point they want their CI removed. But as I've said before there must be a reason why it didn't worked. Puyo Piyo - I am actually not suprised why it didn't worked.
And contrary to what you may think I don't find you CI- opposed. I know you are neutral about it, but - again - I object how you sometimes relay your opinion about "CI not working" in certain light.

Fuzzy

 

[Hwy99]

You are making this up. I absolutely DO NOT pressure anyone into implanting!.
I simply want to get to the the bottom of things. People say so many false things about CI that to me it is unacceptable, simply.

You are acting like this, you just kept saying that "it would be better if you just wear the CI" to me everytime you reply to my post.

I only asked you if you were born deaf or late deafened. Simple sentence "I was born deaf" or" I went deaf at 5" would suffice.
Your biography is nice, THANK YOU, but unneccessary.

Obsiviously you are just looking for my lame excuse for not wearing CI while I have a good reason.

No wonder you didn't receive much benefit from CI, though.
You were born deaf, implanted very late - past your linguistic development.
Also, and I am not criticizing, just stating a fact - you don't seem to have been very dedicated to work with your CI. 4 months is very little time. Very little. And it seems like you just put it on and listened, that's all. How could it be succesful?

Then how come some of my friends didn't have any headaches or brain throwing the sounds to any other body parts like me, they are happy wearing it all day everyday without pain like me? You obsiviously DID NOT read my reason why I don't wear it.

What did he/ she said?

She said that I am better at read lipping without anything on my ear. My last time see her was when I was 12. She is very old and I bet she's retired now.

I hope, looking back you can see by yourself your expectations were unrealistic.
you were born deaf, you didn't had a chance to learn to hear even with what the little use of HA you had, and in order to learn Japanese you would have to FIRST work very hard at learning how to hear anything thru CI.
It's a long way from surgery to using your CI to learn Japanese.

Hmmm...... I do hear with HA, I can understand my mom when she call me "Zack", there is few words I can understand when I have HA at my 3-12 (which is 9 years) age. It's just that I am better read lipping instead of wearing the HA.

Do you suffer from headaches otherwise?

No. Not other than wearing anything on my ear.

That is sad, but try to look at it this way - they were desperate to have a better contact with you. they probably hoped if you master the CI your life will be easier. I think they did that out of love for you, not disrespect.

Yea I understand, I already explained to them many times why I don't want to wear it, they kept ignore me and asking me to wear the CI, how annoying is that.

Imagine if you decide to receive something that make you deaf, and your family is deaf, you don't like it because you want to hear, but they don't care, still begging you to wear whatever make you deaf. How would you felt about that? Very annoying. For example, I went to the fair, I know the fair tend to be very loud and I don't want to wear the CI there, my parents kept begging me to wear the CI, I only visit them at their workplace for the "hi" and then "bye" that's it, I left. I actually sneaking to not wear the CI from my parents. If I don't have CI, I would come by and chatting with my parents as much as I can, but with the CI, if I go back to my parents, they will just begging me to wear the CI instead of chatting with me. You see how it affect my relationship with my families.

They didn't lie. It's just that CI is not just a matter of putting it in.
It's a lot of hard work toward understandig sounds. If you work hard enough, it could be like that. Although it depends on many circumstances.
You can still try - if you want, and you can probably still improve.
Do read "Wired fo sound".

Well they should say do LOT of works to able to hear the Music, Phone, etc. isntead of just saying that help you hear music, phone, etc.

I am talking about how the CI works, and how the HA works. they work different way. I am not talking about people.

Ahh I get it.

And what do you THINK the goverment do? or better, what do you KNOW?
do you know how much money the government spends on various programs for handicapped, which includes the deaf? who pays for it all? who pays for CC?

No I don't know the amount of the money government spend, but I am sure it is not very much of the money while deaf population is only probably less than 5% of the population.

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I don't have CI but I have sufficient education on CI to know a thing or two about it. Just because I don't have it doesn't meant I am complete ignorant. The only thing I lack is PRACTICAL knowledge. but I can learn form those who ARE implanted.

If you want to learn other people who have the CI, I am one of them. I KNOW what it feel like.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

You are acting like this, you just kept saying that "it would be better if you just wear the CI" to me everytime you reply to my post.

no, I didn't say that.

Obsiviously you are just looking for my lame excuse for not wearing CI while I have a good reason.

no, I asked because it may explain why CI didn't work for you.

Then how come some of my friends didn't have any headaches or brain throwing the sounds to any other body parts like me, they are happy wearing it all day everyday without pain like me? You obsiviously DID NOT read my reason why I don't wear it.

I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

Well they should say do LOT of works to able to hear the Music, Phone, etc. isntead of just saying that help you hear music, phone, etc.

Still, they didn't lie.
The CI can help you hear music, phone but you have to work at it. Perhaps you should have educated yourself better about what to expect from CI before you went ahead with surgery?

If you want to learn other people who have the CI, I am one of them. I KNOW what it feel like.

I learned many things from you. I learned you were born deaf and most likely were too deaf to be able to hear and speak well. So you were past linguistic development when you were implanted, you didn't receive much (if any) therapy and assistance after surgery, and you only wore CI for 4 months.
I also learned that, for some reason, the CI caused uncomfortable feeling in your mouth and gave you headaches. Thank you.

Yea I understand, I already explained to them many times why I don't want to wear it, they kept ignore me and asking me to wear the CI, how annoying is that.

That is unfortunate, but it's not the CI fault. It's the relationship- human to human- problems you have with your parents. It could be fixed with the help of trained psychotherapist, perhaps?

No I don't know the amount of the money government spend, but I am sure it is not very much of the money while deaf population is only probably less than 5% of the population.

Shouldn't you make SURE you know it first, before you claim anything, then?


Fuzzy

 

[shel90]

I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

By experiencing headaches, uncomfortable noises, and pain after the implantion, how is it Pyo's fault? Maybe u can enlight all of us and explain any strategies people with those problems can control them since it is not the CI's fault but their fault?

I guess it is the children's fault that they were unable to benefit from their CIs? Maybe u can come and work at my school to teach them how to make their CIs become beneficial for them since it is never the CI's fault for anything.

 

[shel90]

You are acting like this, you just kept saying that "it would be better if you just wear the CI" to me everytime you reply to my post.



Obsiviously you are just looking for my lame excuse for not wearing CI while I have a good reason.



Then how come some of my friends didn't have any headaches or brain throwing the sounds to any other body parts like me, they are happy wearing it all day everyday without pain like me? You obsiviously DID NOT read my reason why I don't wear it.



She said that I am better at read lipping without anything on my ear. My last time see her was when I was 12. She is very old and I bet she's retired now.



Hmmm...... I do hear with HA, I can understand my mom when she call me "Zack", there is few words I can understand when I have HA at my 3-12 (which is 9 years) age. It's just that I am better read lipping instead of wearing the HA.



No. Not other than wearing anything on my ear.



Yea I understand, I already explained to them many times why I don't want to wear it, they kept ignore me and asking me to wear the CI, how annoying is that.

Imagine if you decide to receive something that make you deaf, and your family is deaf, you don't like it because you want to hear, but they don't care, still begging you to wear whatever make you deaf. How would you felt about that? Very annoying. For example, I went to the fair, I know the fair tend to be very loud and I don't want to wear the CI there, my parents kept begging me to wear the CI, I only visit them at their workplace for the "hi" and then "bye" that's it, I left. I actually sneaking to not wear the CI from my parents. If I don't have CI, I would come by and chatting with my parents as much as I can, but with the CI, if I go back to my parents, they will just begging me to wear the CI instead of chatting with me. You see how it affect my relationship with my families.



Well they should say do LOT of works to able to hear the Music, Phone, etc. isntead of just saying that help you hear music, phone, etc.



Ahh I get it.



No I don't know the amount of the money government spend, but I am sure it is not very much of the money while deaf population is only probably less than 5% of the population.



If you want to learn other people who have the CI, I am one of them. I KNOW what it feel like.

Thanks for sharing your experiences why the CI wasnt beneficial for u..maybe I can ask the children if they experienced the same problems with their CIs. I am sorry that it didnt work out for u but important u are happy and have accepted your deafness.

U are right, for some people it works great while for others it doesnt. Just like HAs worked for me but not for my deaf brother.

 

[shel90]

I don't recall saying you are against implanting babies? or that you cirticize others for doing so?
I only always pointed out that your seemingly neutral opinion of CI "not working in some children for unknown reasons" is IMO not so neutral at all. can't you see this? I simply find -in certain circumstances- your opinon biased.
I say there must be a reason for CI not working, always - not "it just doesn't work". Either the child was implanted too late or, like PuyoPiyo, most likely wasn't receiving adequate therapy and exercises after surgery.




I find it curious. If you know, then why, for example this:




No, from this forum alone I can see there is plenty uhappy CI-ers, unhappy to the point they want their CI removed. But as I've said before there must be a reason why it didn't worked. Puyo Piyo - I am actually not suprised why it didn't worked.
And contrary to what you may think I don't find you CI- opposed. I know you are neutral about it, but - again - I object how you sometimes relay your opinion about "CI not working" in certain light.

Fuzzy

By all means, u can object all you want. U can come and visit my work place and do interviews with those children who didnt benefit from their CIs. Maybe u can find the answer since I was unable to. If u think I am bullshitting, go ahead. I think it is funny that so many people think I am bullshitting about a lot of things when they have never experienced fluency in ASL, working with deaf children who are delayed in language due to not picking up on oral language, children who werent able to get benefit from their CIs, and so many more. I just laugh cuz it is so amazing how many people here assumed so many things about me. It just cracks me up cuz it is so silly.

 

[rick48]

By all means, u can object all you want. U can come and visit my work place and do interviews with those children who didnt benefit from their CIs. Maybe u can find the answer since I was unable to. If u think I am bullshitting, go ahead. I think it is funny that so many people think I am bullshitting about a lot of things when they have never experienced fluency in ASL, working with deaf children who are delayed in language due to not picking up on oral language, children who werent able to get benefit from their CIs, and so many more. I just laugh cuz it is so amazing how many people here assumed so many things about me. It just cracks me up cuz it is so silly.

Oh stop whinning like a big baby and grow up. You are supposed to be a professional. You have children you are obligated to teach and some of them have cis. If they are not recieving any benefit from them, ask yourself why? Are they even wearing them? HAve they been programed correctly? When was the last time they had a mapping? What is the parents' level of involvement or concern? Go observe an oral program and/or a mainstream setting where children who are benefiting from their cis are being educated. Observe the differences, talk to their teachers, if possible talk to the children themselves and/or their parents. Don't just sit there like a bump on a log and constantly say "its not my job" or "I asked but no one knows". Find out, maybe in the process you will learn something and help your students as well.

 

[jillio]

Get of your high horse, already Jillio - you know crap. I am the person who is hearing impaired. I experience psychosocial implications of being deaf on a daily basic since birth. I wanted CI at one point of my life so I got educated on the subject. My brother was deaf so I did spend time in deaf culture.

Do you think you deeply "know and understand" deafness because you have deaf child and participate in deaf culture? that's preposterous.
My parents (hearing) too, always thought they know what's like being deaf - they knew ZIT. And so do you. So don't take that tone with me Missy because I am the one who can say from firsthand experience what's like to be deaf among hearing with all the beautiful "assistive devices and services", not you.


Liebling:


beacuse Shel is asking questions about CI that anyone who educated themselves about what is a CI, how it works, and how it is different from HA knows.
Let's compare CI to a car, for better explanation. Everybody knows what a car is but not everybody know how the car works, how it's made inside.
Most people, when a car breaks, are helpless because they don't have a clue how the car works. Some doesn't even know how to change oil.
All they know is how to hold a steering wheel, how to use brake pedal, gas pedal, the shift gear, and some other "thingies" but that is NOT knowing about the car.

It's like that with many people when it comes to CI.
Most know it's a hearing device but how exactly it works hardly anyone is interested in knowing or knows.
Many assume "it's in the brain". "The hole is huge". "it's like HA only stronger" - so such misinformation.
and why, when the correct information is available out there and the subject so vital for the deaf.

The knowledge about cars is out there, too - there are books, there are people - mechanics- who can tell you. All you have to do is WANT TO KNOW. Most don't care. Same with CI.

If Shel was truly interested, if she knew as much as she claim she knows about CI then she would know why some people need to be implanted early and why some still have great benefits when implanted late. This is basic knowledge she asks about.
I wanted to know about CI, so I read about it a lot. There are books written by people who were implanted, there are internet sites with good information, there are doctors who can explain. It's out there. If you want to know.




I think you do NOT understand the difference between the HA and CI. Otherwise you wouldn't ask such a question.




And you and other like you seem to be only interested in looking for BAD experiences to prove "how bad CI are". and yet you are not interested in WHY it is so, why the CI didn't worked in the first place.
there is always an explanation.


*sigh* I see NOTHING wrong that Maria share her view, opinion and belief. She did not say anything what she know but share her advice and suggestion. It's UP to us either we can take her advice/suggestion or not instead of take her post personal.

The problem with you and Maria and some other people is, you do NOT answer the question. Instead, you start talking about hundred other things, that have no bearing on the subject. You go off topic.
I explained many times already - Cloggy asked Maria about OTHER CHILD'S feelings. Maria replied she knows what other child feeling would be. She DOESN'T, period.

Do you Liebling can know what my feeling on using TTY is?
of course you CAN NOT know even though you too use TTY.




It's called withholding the information. In certain aspects is as bad as lying.
And please, we are NOT talking about "positive about deafness".



I don't belittle nobody.
It's not my fault when some people discuss subjects they are not fully informed about. And I am not happy when I see people are causing more confuse on the subject of CI when, as it turns out, they don't bother to know all the "whys".

As I explained already, I don't have to have CI to know how it work.
I do not collect CI or HA users opinions myself, but in the books and on the internet is plenty of such data. The book "Wired for Sound" is one huge statement about CI experience. Did you read that book?



I am sorry but again you are off subject.


it matters very much, because depending on the amount and kind of hearing loss the HA may not suffice.
the problem is if you have a deaf baby you need to chose between early implantation or late implantation. If you chose late your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time. look at Puyo Piyo.





being LATE deaf makes all the difference. late deafened means they already acquired hearing and oral skills before they went deaf. It's HUGE difference between being born deaf.



IF your child is late deafened, already learned to hear and speak well then it should be OK. If your child was born deaf then is too late for full CI benefits later. They will have some, but it never as good as if implanted early.




I am sorry I just overlooked one letter. of course it was supposed to be "world".
anyway, I tried to explain that acceptance doesn't matter. whether one accept it or not we live in hearing world.



They have choice, though. they can but don't HAVE TO use it.



Fuzzy
Liebling


I am speechless. what in the world did you find in my message???
I simply stated the FACT - the deaf IS minority. Minorities DO are overlooked by majorities. The deaf HAS TO work harder than the hearing.

WHERE in the world am I belittling, and WHO ??? for god's sake.

MARIA:

I asked you a question, please reply:




It's a simple question. why can't you just reply?



yet you didn't knew the difference of being implanted as late deafened and when implanted late but when one was born deaf.
I may not have one myslef but I read all I could do about it, and corresponded with people who are implanted.



You are making this up. I absolutely DO NOT pressure anyone into implanting!.
I simply want to get to the the bottom of things. People say so many false things about CI that to me it is unacceptable, simply.



I only asked you if you were born deaf or late deafened. Simple sentence "I was born deaf" or" I went deaf at 5" would suffice.
Your biography is nice, THANK YOU, but unneccessary.

No wonder you didn't receive much benefit from CI, though.
You were born deaf, implanted very late - past your linguistic development.
Also, and I am not criticizing, just stating a fact - you don't seem to have been very dedicated to work with your CI. 4 months is very little time. Very little. And it seems like you just put it on and listened, that's all. How could it be succesful?



What did he/ she said?



I hope, looking back you can see by yourself your expectations were unrealistic.
you were born deaf, you didn't had a chance to learn to hear even with what the little use of HA you had, and in order to learn Japanese you would have to FIRST work very hard at learning how to hear anything thru CI.
It's a long way from surgery to using your CI to learn Japanese.



Do you suffer from headaches otherwise?




That is sad, but try to look at it this way - they were desperate to have a better contact with you. they probably hoped if you master the CI your life will be easier. I think they did that out of love for you, not disrespect.



They didn't lie. It's just that CI is not just a matter of putting it in.
It's a lot of hard work toward understandig sounds. If you work hard enough, it could be like that. Although it depends on many circumstances.
You can still try - if you want, and you can probably still improve.
Do read "Wired fo sound".



I am talking about how the CI works, and how the HA works. they work different way. I am not talking about people.



And what do you THINK the goverment do? or better, what do you KNOW?
do you know how much money the government spends on various programs for handicapped, which includes the deaf? who pays for it all? who pays for CC?






Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I don't have CI but I have sufficient education on CI to know a thing or two about it. Just because I don't have it doesn't meant I am complete ignorant. The only thing I lack is PRACTICAL knowledge. but I can learn form those who ARE implanted.

Cloggy - how cute .
this is the exact copy I have!




Fuzzy

I'm well aware that you experience psychosocial implications from your hearing loss. Your bitterness at not being hearing is evident in all of your posts. Equally as interesting is the fact that you used the term "hearing impairment". And, if you can learn from those that are implanted, then shel and I can learn equally as well from those that are implanted. As we deal with implanted students on a daily basis, your claimthat we have no knowledge of CI is so much bunk. And perhaps f you made the effort to drop the attitude and the "hearing think" you would be ab le to learn quite a bit from being involved in Deaf culture. You are a very angry and bitter person. I'd suggest some therapy, but I doubt seriously that it would do any good, because you don't have the insight to see where your attitude is coming from.

 

[jillio]

Oh stop whinning like a big baby and grow up. You are supposed to be a professional. You have children you are obligated to teach and some of them have cis. If they are not recieving any benefit from them, ask yourself why? Are they even wearing them? HAve they been programed correctly? When was the last time they had a mapping? What is the parents' level of involvement or concern? Go observe an oral program and/or a mainstream setting where children who are benefiting from their cis are being educated. Observe the differences, talk to their teachers, if possible talk to the children themselves and/or their parents. Don't just sit there like a bump on a log and constantly say "its not my job" or "I asked but no one knows". Find out, maybe in the process you will learn something and help your students as well.

Yes, shel is obligated to teach those children, and the CI has nothing to do with it. She educates children whether their CI is successful according to your standards or not. She is not an audiologist, and she is not an ENT. She is an EDUCATOR. Her responsibility is education of deaf children. You are so focused on CI and oral environments that you can't see anything else. And shel does help her students. As a matter of fact, she is a savior for the ones who were placed in those oral programs of which you speak, and came away so language delayed that she has to do remedial work with them. She works with those children whose CI did not benefit them. What would you do with those children? Give up on them, I suppose, because they are not able to use your precious oral language, and therefore are not worth the time and effort of educators.

 

[jillio]

PuyoPiyo and Liebling.......your experience and what you have to say is very valuable. You keep telling your stories. If there are those who don't want to hear, it is their own loss, because they could learn so much and become much better people by listening to what you have to say. But, unfortunately, some people just have no interest in living a richer life. Oh, well, their loss. But there are hearies out there who pay attention, so never stop trying to help us learn more. And remember, you don't have to be deaf to not hear. There are plenty examples of selective deafness in this thread.

 

[Hwy99]

no, I didn't say that.

Okay whatever, I am not stupid okay.

no, I asked because it may explain why CI didn't work for you.

You ask me why it does not work for me, then trying to picking out that I was wrong about it. I just know it, I am not stupid.

I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

How can that be my fault while CI is not working for me?

Still, they didn't lie.
The CI can help you hear music, phone but you have to work at it. Perhaps you should have educated yourself better about what to expect from CI before you went ahead with surgery?

How come I read the "Benefit List from the Cochlear Implant" and one of them said that I will be able to use the phone, radio, music, etc which is the BIGGEST lie. One of my friend who have the CI and wearing it since he was 15 and he is about as my age now, he STILL can't understand the phone even though he have the CI on. I have been hearing the biggest myth about CI and phone such like this:

"Do you have difficult to hear the phone even though you have hearing aids? If so, cochlear implant will help!"

The audiologist told me the exactly same thing as this, she just won't admit to me that CI don't work for everything but just acting pushy on me about the CI.

This is nothing different than the hearing aids! I can hear the phone with hearing aids but unclear sounds, and when I wear the CI, the CI do the same as HA.

I learned many things from you. I learned you were born deaf and most likely were too deaf to be able to hear and speak well. So you were past linguistic development when you were implanted, you didn't receive much (if any) therapy and assistance after surgery, and you only wore CI for 4 months.
I also learned that, for some reason, the CI caused uncomfortable feeling in your mouth and gave you headaches. Thank you.

Hmmm no problem, but I get the funny feelings about you, I think you think I am just stupid. If you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to know what it is like to have CI, why not YOU undergo the operation to receive the CI so that you can understand how it felt to have the CI. What if you have the sounds coming out of your mouth just like me? It is pain in the ass, I feel like my nose is bleeding and numb while having the sounds inside my mouth.

That is unfortunate, but it's not the CI fault. It's the relationship- human to human- problems you have with your parents. It could be fixed with the help of trained psychotherapist, perhaps?

Not only my parents, but lot of other family members like my brother, my cousin Josh, Stephany, and Lisa, my uncle Tom, my grandparents, probably everyone. Very sadly.

And what's more, the relationship of families/friends and the surgery is also very important too, excluding the urgency surgical produces. For example, what if there is a wife and a husband, a wife decide to have facial surgery to make her more beautiful, somehow her husband don't want her to do that, they kept arguing about it till the wife finally undergo the operation for the facial surgery. Now her husband decide to dicrove her because she think her husband only care how she look, not who she are, also her husband don't feel like she is the same as she was to him. That goes the same as the CI.

Shouldn't you make SURE you know it first, before you claim anything, then?

Do you know anything about it? If so, tell me, I'd love to debate about it. I am just saying my opinion, I never stats it as any of fact.

Fuzzy

I don't know. Obviously, the problem is with you not with CI.
To use the car analogy - suppose after always driving a small cars you got biggest SUV and you had an accident. Whose fault would that be- yours or the car?

By experiencing headaches, uncomfortable noises, and pain after the implantion, how is it Pyo's fault? Maybe u can enlight all of us and explain any strategies people with those problems can control them since it is not the CI's fault but their fault?

I guess it is the children's fault that they were unable to benefit from their CIs? Maybe u can come and work at my school to teach them how to make their CIs become beneficial for them since it is never the CI's fault for anything.

Exactly..

Thanks for sharing your experiences why the CI wasnt beneficial for u..maybe I can ask the children if they experienced the same problems with their CIs. I am sorry that it didnt work out for u but important u are happy and have accepted your deafness.

U are right, for some people it works great while for others it doesnt. Just like HAs worked for me but not for my deaf brother.

No problem Yeah alot of individuals have varies of experience, most of them are different than mine, some can talk with the phone, some not. Some can't even talk, some can. It's varies.

 

[Hwy99]

PuyoPiyo and Liebling.......your experience and what you have to say is very valuable. You keep telling your stories. If there are those who don't want to hear, it is their own loss, because they could learn so much and become much better people by listening to what you have to say. But, unfortunately, some people just have no interest in living a richer life. Oh, well, their loss. But there are hearies out there who pay attention, so never stop trying to help us learn more. And remember, you don't have to be deaf to not hear. There are plenty examples of selective deafness in this thread.

I agree with you all the way. There is no need to be deaf to NOT hear. You are right, if they can't listen to our experiences, then it's their loss.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Okay whatever, I am not stupid okay.

I don't think you are stupid, I think you don't get what I am saying.

Quote:
no, I asked because it may explain why CI didn't work for you.

You ask me why it does not work for me, then trying to picking out that I was wrong about it. I just know it, I am not stupid.

You seem to know better than me what I wanted !

How can that be my fault while CI is not working for me?

Where did I say it's your FAULT??? I said the problem might be you - you may simply be extra sensitive to foreign object in your body. You may have extra sensitive nerves and therefore you feel the sound vibration more so and than any other person, in more places. Maybe you have super sensitive thingy in your ear and that's why CI cause you headaches.

You yourself wrote many of your friends enjoy CI with no problems.

Of course it's not your fault that you responded to CI that way, as well as it's not CI's fault way that it caused you those symptoms. It is responsible for your symptoms, yes, but most people accept CI with no problem.

How come I read the "Benefit List from the Cochlear Implant" and one of them said that I will be able to use the phone, radio, music, etc which is the BIGGEST lie.

This is still not a lie. A CI is able to achieve that. Are you saying that there are no CI implantees that can hear music or talk on the phone, while they couldn't do that with HAs?

You wore your CI for only 4 months, and you yourself wrote "you didn't know learning to use a CI would be such a hard work". meaning, most likely you didn't really worked much to learn to use your CI.
So, perhaps if you were willing to seriously work at it, maybe in a year or two you COULD be able to hear over the phone or understand music with no plm.
I am not pushing you into using your CI - I am simply saying the possibility of hearing much better with CI could be there for you. waiting.

One of my friend who have the CI and wearing it since he was 15 and he is about as my age now, he STILL can't understand the phone even though he have the CI on.

It could be that he, like you, was implanted too late, or/and like you wasn't trying very hard.

I have been hearing the biggest myth about CI and phone such like this:

"Do you have difficult to hear the phone even though you have hearing aids? If so, cochlear implant will help!"

I agree they shouldn't say "will", they should say "may".

The audiologist told me the exactly same thing as this, she just won't admit to me that CI don't work for everything but just acting pushy on me about the CI.

The audiologist is not neccessarily lying. as I've said before, maybe some people require more work, hard work. maybe you still have a chance.

This is nothing different than the hearing aids! I can hear the phone with hearing aids but unclear sounds, and when I wear the CI, the CI do the same as HA.

That is because there is only very short period of time in human life when they develop hearing and speech. Once. It happens before the child is two, three years old.
The human is NOT born with ability to understand sound. The baby can hear but the baby does not understand what it hears. The baby learns over time to recognize sounds. among many things - thru repetitions.
If the baby is born deaf, then it is very hard if not impossible for the baby to learn sounds.
You were born deaf, so never learned ALL sounds. Only what you were able with your HAs. So, it is not possible for you to suddenly "hear" - you need in a way to learn all over how to hear - much like a baby. even now.
(The same is with blind people. The newborn can not see properly. Their sight develops daily. If the blind person learns to recognize shapes by touch, and one day suddenly that person has surgery and its sight is restored, that person does not understand what it sees.
Watch the movie with Val Kilmer "At First Sight" so you can understand what I am talking about.)
So, while the CI is much different than HA, it does not mean just anyone who put it in will suddenly be able to hear "normal". It's more possible for late deafened person.

Hmmm no problem, but I get the funny feelings about you, I think you think I am just stupid. If you REALLY REALLY REALLY want to know what it is like to have CI, why not YOU undergo the operation to receive the CI so that you can understand how it felt to have the CI. What if you have the sounds coming out of your mouth just like me? It is pain in the ass, I feel like my nose is bleeding and numb while having the sounds inside my mouth.

I don't think you are stupid. I think in some areas you lack information.
I am considering CI. If CI would cause me some problems (like yours) I would be sorry to not be able to use it.
If I ever get one, I know I probably will have to work extremely hard to understand thru it. But I think it would be worth it.

For example, what if there is a wife and a husband, a wife decide to have facial surgery to make her more beautiful, somehow her husband don't want her to do that, they kept arguing about it till the wife finally undergo the operation for the facial surgery. Now her husband decide to dicrove her because she think her husband only care how she look, not who she are, also her husband don't feel like she is the same as she was to him. That goes the same as the CI.

The facial surgery is not the problem - the problem is the husband's attitude, and lack of proper communication between husband and wife. It's sad when that happens.
Although I think the wife is better off without a jerk for a husband

Do you know anything about it? If so, tell me, I'd love to debate about it. I am just saying my opinion, I never stats it as any of fact.

No, but then I don't claim I know how much money is spent for disabilities, do I

I guess it is the children's fault that they were unable to benefit from their CIs? Maybe u can come and work at my school to teach them how to make their CIs become beneficial for them since it is never the CI's fault for anything.

It's never the children's "fault". If someone is at fault AT ALL, is adults who take care of and are responsible for the children. besides, I never claimed CI is only successful when someone hears 100%.
If you recall, I wrote somewhere if a child was totally deaf before even with HAs, and with CI can at least hear ANYTHING, it's already a success.
You know what I find the big problem here? many people can not concentrate on one current topic but jump allover the place. That makes discussion very hard, and easy to confuse.

U are right, for some people it works great while for others it doesnt. Just like HAs worked for me but not for my deaf brother.

I never claimed CI is supposed to work for anybody, and in the same way at that.
of course it works differently for everyone. All I was saying there is always an explanation why is that. And that the CI has capability to assist the way it's claimed it should do. I am just stating the fact.

Fuzzy
__________________

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I am the person who is hearing impaired.

Why you use those word "hearing impaired" instead of HOH or deaf?

I would say that I am deaf when anyone ask me.

Do you think you deeply "know and understand" deafness because you have deaf child and participate in deaf culture? that's preposterous.
My parents (hearing) too, always thought they know what's like being deaf - they knew ZIT.

I know Jillo and her posts and do not compare her with my parents because I know she is different as my parents. Look at Cloggy, Rick48 and Jillo, they are here but our parents not. Please don't compare her with your parents because she is a hearing.

beacuse Shel is asking questions about CI that anyone who educated themselves about what is a CI, how it works, and how it is different from HA knows.

Let's compare CI to a car, for better explanation. Everybody knows what a car is but not everybody know how the car works, how it's made inside.
Most people, when a car breaks, are helpless because they don't have a clue how the car works. Some doesn't even know how to change oil.
All they know is how to hold a steering wheel, how to use brake pedal, gas pedal, the shift gear, and some other "thingies" but that is NOT knowing about the car.

About comparison between CI and car is a prefect example.

I use your example opposite...

I feel helpless when my car doesn't work so I call the garage for the help or ask my friend for the tip how to take care of my car etc. Why my car doesn't work?

I feel helpless when CI or HA doesn't work on my child so I would ask the teacher/educator or Audiologist for the help/advice how to take care of my deaf child... Why CI or HA doesn't work on my child? But the parents of CI children didn't ask Shel90 for her advice or whatever.

Why should Shel90 do when the parents did not go to her for advice or whatever? Perhaps the Audiologist advised the parents to see them if they have problem with their CI child because they are expert for CI/HA issues. It would be nice if the parents want to talk Shel90 about CI issues but they doesn't. Shel90 can't expect or make the parents to tell them everything...

It's like that with many people when it comes to CI.
Most know it's a hearing device but how exactly it works hardly anyone is interested in knowing or knows.

Exactly but I would like to add HA on your comment instead of just CI.

Many assume "it's in the brain". "The hole is huge". "it's like HA only stronger" - so such misinformation.
and why, when the correct information is available out there and the subject so vital for the deaf.

I do not see anyone claim that HA is stronger or better than CI... but we claim that it's people themselves who have good willing and want to learn anything with HA or CI. It depend on different person.

The knowledge about cars is out there, too - there are books, there are people - mechanics- who can tell you. All you have to do is WANT TO KNOW. Most don't care. Same with CI.

No, I rather to collect people's experiences how satisfy they are with car qualities to compare with the books and mechanics. I question mechanics and people before I make my own decision. It's same thing with HA and CI... I would question doctors, Audiologist and CI/HA users before I make decision myself.

If Shel was truly interested, if she knew as much as she claim she knows about CI then she would know why some people need to be implanted early and why some still have great benefits when implanted late. This is basic knowledge she asks about.

Shel90 know how to separate as her duty and private person when she work with deaf children and outside of school.

What she doing is correct.

I wanted to know about CI, so I read about it a lot. There are books written by people who were implanted, there are internet sites with good information, there are doctors who can explain. It's out there. If you want to know.

If I want to know more about CI or HA then do that as private person to collect their positive and negative experiences, search at websites, listen doctor etc...

I think you do NOT understand the difference between the HA and CI. Otherwise you wouldn't ask such a question.

For your information, I visited parental conference over different subjects for years until the subject over CI vs HA comes... I went there to listen the professor's leisure... get information over the cons/pros between HA and CI until I decide myself. Of course there're heat debate....

Yes I know that the people claim that CI is better advantage techology than HA. Yes I do beleive them but I see different as them and beleive that it's depend on person's willing and their physical mind and body also psychological and social as well either CI or HA works on them or not... Really depend... Each child/adult is different. Some HA work on them or not and some CI work on them or not...

I think you don't understand either because you think CI is best techology... but HA's techology does improve as well.

And you and other like you seem to be only interested in looking for BAD experiences to prove "how bad CI are". and yet you are not interested in WHY it is so, why the CI didn't worked in the first place.
there is always an explanation.

No, it's the people who claim that CI is best and tried to negative HA in first place. We tried to convince that it's not just CI or HA but people themselves and their willing. They think 100% positive about CI and 100% negative about HA which is not right. We need pros/cons over both CI and HA... that's why we share our posts with you what we know from CI and HA users that some work on them and some not... some happy, some not.

The problem with you and Maria and some other people is, you do NOT answer the question. Instead, you start talking about hundred other things, that have no bearing on the subject. You go off topic.

I do not see that we made off topic...

I explained many times already - Cloggy asked Maria about OTHER CHILD'S feelings. Maria replied she knows what other child feeling would be. She DOESN'T, period.

Yes, I have read Cloggy's question to Maria but we have no answer to his question because we have no experience that other child is angry with their parents for not implant her/him with CI. I would share if I know...

Do you Liebling can know what my feeling on using TTY is?
of course you CAN NOT know even though you too use TTY.

It's not my fault when some people discuss subjects they are not fully informed about.

And I am not happy when I see people are causing more confuse on the subject of CI when, as it turns out, they don't bother to know all the "whys".

CI and HA users share about their experiences here and in real life - there're no reason that they misleading their information or whatever. You has to face sometimes when there're some negative in CI or HA issues. There're alway NEVER get postive to 100%... The doctors and books often share 100% postive over CI. I don't beleive them because I know there're alway HAVE cons/pros and some negative/positive in CI or HA issues, NEVER 100% prefect/positive. Should I depend on just doctors and books? No, I rather to depend anything including doctors, books, CI/HA users's experiences, etc.

As I explained already, I don't have to have CI to know how it work.
I do not collect CI or HA users opinions myself, but in the books and on the internet is plenty of such data.

This is your POV.

The book "Wired for Sound" is one huge statement about CI experience. Did you read that book?

Yes, Cloggy mentioned that book but I haven't read that book because there're no English book around here in Germany. I would don't mind to read that book if the book is around here in Germany.

it matters very much, because depending on the amount and kind of hearing loss the HA may not suffice.

I would suggest you to focus HA techology. Many people decide for HA or CI because they beleive themselves which better techology for them... It work on them great which CI doesn't. Some work on them great which HA doesn't.

the problem is if you have a deaf baby you need to chose between early implantation or late implantation. If you chose late your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time. look at Puyo Piyo.

If I have a deaf baby then I would wear HA on them straight way like what my "HOH" friends's parents did to them long time ago before CI techology comes... Until my child is willing to have CI and want to learn anything... I support her/him.

Puyo stated in his previous post that he don't wear HA at his earlier age because he don't like it... that problem is he feel strange with sounds and didn't use it after CI surgery. He already stated that he regretted it. I know myself that CI will never work on me because I am not moviate enough to learn anything to speak and hear the sounds... because I really has no time for that. I have other important things than worry about learn anything how to speak and hear. Some adult who wear HA all their life are willing to learn anything then CI is good for them. It might take them years to learn anything than children. I know that children learn quickly than adult that's why I am for the children's wish.

being LATE deaf makes all the difference. late deafened means they already acquired hearing and oral skills before they went deaf. It's HUGE difference between being born deaf.

Yes, that's right but they decided for HA, not CI. Some decide for CI... They are happy what they really want. It's same with deaf as well... They can learn to speak and hear if they willing to with the help from CI or HA.

IF your child is late deafened, already learned to hear and speak well then it should be OK. If your child was born deaf then is too late for full CI benefits later. They will have some, but it never as good as if implanted early.

No, it's not really late what you thought.

I simply want to get to the the bottom of things. People say so many false things about CI that to me it is unacceptable, simply.

Do you mean what we share our experience with CI users in real life or CI users share their own experiences in any forums are false?

That is sad, but try to look at it this way - they were desperate to have a better contact with you. they probably hoped if you master the CI your life will be easier. I think they did that out of love for you, not disrespect.

Opposite to me, they should accept what we are instead of critizing us and tell us what to do. I don't beleive that CI is the one who make people life easier. It would work on CI or HA pretty if the people themselves have good willing to work hard and learn anything.

It's a lot of hard work toward understandig sounds. If you work hard enough, it could be like that. Although it depends on many circumstances.
You can still try - if you want, and you can probably still improve.

Yes, it's depend on people's willing if they really want to try...

Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I don't have CI but I have sufficient education on CI to know a thing or two about it. Just because I don't have it doesn't meant I am complete ignorant. The only thing I lack is PRACTICAL knowledge. but I can learn form those who ARE implanted.

You claim that you have sufficient education on CI but I see is you depend on the books and doctors, collect not CI users's experiences. sufficient education?

 

[shel90]

Oh stop whinning like a big baby and grow up. You are supposed to be a professional. You have children you are obligated to teach and some of them have cis. If they are not recieving any benefit from them, ask yourself why? Are they even wearing them? HAve they been programed correctly? When was the last time they had a mapping? What is the parents' level of involvement or concern? Go observe an oral program and/or a mainstream setting where children who are benefiting from their cis are being educated. Observe the differences, talk to their teachers, if possible talk to the children themselves and/or their parents. Don't just sit there like a bump on a log and constantly say "its not my job" or "I asked but no one knows". Find out, maybe in the process you will learn something and help your students as well.

Ok I will neglect my lesson plans and have nothing ready for my classes so I can find out why their CIs dont work. I will tell my aide to teach my classes while I do this time consuming process when nobody is willing to give me the answer. After work, I will go to the children's house alllll over MD, spending $$ on gas and neglect my hubby and son to find the answers for each child.

Maybe while in the process, I will just get fired for not doing my duties as described on my job.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yea I understand, I already explained to them many times why I don't want to wear it, they kept ignore me and asking me to wear the CI, how annoying is that.

Imagine if you decide to receive something that make you deaf, and your family is deaf, you don't like it because you want to hear, but they don't care, still begging you to wear whatever make you deaf. How would you felt about that? Very annoying. For example, I went to the fair, I know the fair tend to be very loud and I don't want to wear the CI there, my parents kept begging me to wear the CI, I only visit them at their workplace for the "hi" and then "bye" that's it, I left. I actually sneaking to not wear the CI from my parents. If I don't have CI, I would come by and chatting with my parents as much as I can, but with the CI, if I go back to my parents, they will just begging me to wear the CI instead of chatting with me. You see how it affect my relationship with my families.

Yes I can image it!!! It's sad that they can't respect your wish.

Well they should say do LOT of works to able to hear the Music, Phone, etc. isntead of just saying that help you hear music, phone, etc.

Very true, a lot of doctors say like that... "help you to hear etc. etc. " - it look like that it make the people thought it's easy to learn anything...

If you want to learn other people who have the CI, I am one of them. I KNOW what it feel like.

Yes, I know how you and the CI users feeling and respect you and them because it's you and CI users who wear CI, not us, doctor or whatever...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

PuyoPiyo and Liebling.......your experience and what you have to say is very valuable. You keep telling your stories. If there are those who don't want to hear, it is their own loss, because they could learn so much and become much better people by listening to what you have to say. But, unfortunately, some people just have no interest in living a richer life. Oh, well, their loss. But there are hearies out there who pay attention, so never stop trying to help us learn more. And remember, you don't have to be deaf to not hear. There are plenty examples of selective deafness in this thread.

for compliment and support.

I will see myself who are ignorant and uneducation if they keep on think our stories are false, misleading or whatever.