and you wore Ci for only 4 months??? no wonder it was a failure for you.
Yupp of course it is not true. CI users saying the negative things about the CI does not make them a anti-CI. Even though myself I do have some positive side of CI but won't admit to Audiofuzzy due to her attitude.
*sigh* I guess you are right, those people think we are closed-minded, while the CI stuff is part of the Deaf Community and it was us the Deafies who should talk about it
Exactly, I am total with you! Should leave the baby be till it grew up and understand stuff, find what the baby really desire for. Haha of course, what's wrong with the HA while it don't have surgery required.
No problemYeah I know some of my friends who are unsafisy(sp?) with the CI, some of them said that sounds are like too robotic.
Yupp, one word, selfish.
Thank you for the reply
Opposite to me, from reading the posts, I know that you & Jillo are very intelligent people but I see the problem is you and Jillo see differently. To me, you take ADer's posts personal and focus on CI instead of take cons/pros between HA & CI on both sides. You ignore other sides and think we have no idea on anything but Jillos doesn't. Jillos want to understand everything between deaf and hearing but you don't want to understand. Jillo could be different person when there're insult/disrespectful/bash posts instead of polite debate. I could be bitch sometimes either. You also, too. It's not just Jillos but you, me, Cloggy, Rick48, other ADers as well.
I can see from posts here that we respect Cloggy's & Rick48's decision on their child when we see different as them. I see the problem that we are being belittle by you including them because you think you know everything than us and think we have no clue about CI issues when we saw in real life. It would be nice when we share our agree/disagree debate in polite way like adult instead of belittle each other and prove each other wrong... I would love to have anyone to open their mind to agree/disagree and convince me why.... because it's good education for us to learn anything... I learn from Cloggy from his threads and websites about her daughter... I don't care either Cloggy's daughter has CI nor HA but I find wonderful what and how he & his wife did to their daughter is teach her to speak and hear and also learn to sign language and also deaf community as well. It's mainly important to me.
Interesting... Why do you claim that Shel90 has no clue or know a little about CI and take our posts personal when you has no clue what CI is about or not even collect or share the experience with CI & HA users in real life? All what I see is you are on website's side against people's experiences because you think websites or whatever are right and people's wrong. You has no clue what is about.
*sigh* I see NOTHING wrong that Maria share her view, opinion and belief. She did not say anything what she know but share her advice and suggestion. It's UP to us either we can take her advice/suggestion or not instead of take her post personal.
I can't see the sense what/how could we lie to a child... I already explained Cloggy in previous post about positive over their deafness...
See yourself what you said this.
See? You think you know everything when you don't have CI or not even collect CI & HA users's experiences... but prove them wrong and belittle them...
*Repeat sigh* CI & HA users CAN speak and hear with their OWN WILLING. They would have no mood to learn anything when you FORCE them to do... Mainly important is positive them why you beleive in and why you think best and support them...
See yourself what you said here... really sad... You accused anyone negative like you did to me in other thread and think we are manipulative, misleading, or whatever... There're no confusion but the fact... we need to listen both sides before we made our decision.
You interpreted my post in wrong way. I never said that... I said that it's up to each person who accept what he/she is.
If they don't want to learn to speak or hear then is their decision...
If they want to wear HA and learn to speak and hear then is their decision.
If they want to have CI out of curious then is their decision.
If they want to have CI and learn to speak/hear then is their decision.
It's mean is that they are happy and accept what they are... that's what I am trying to explain. Please don't twist it.
Yes, I agree that CI is a technology but HA is also, too. It depend on parents who have their time and patience to educate their child earlier to expose with speak/hear development - no matter either HA or CI.
It depend on person's willing and want to learn anything with sounds and speak... I have seen many HA users who can speak and phone like HOH long time before CI comes.
I have met many late deaf in spa last year. They decided for HA (special HA - mould inside their ears). They are happy with their decision... Some decide for CI because they are happy. It's about their own willing with no force from anyone.
You think CI are only who can help children to hear and speak which I respectfully disagree. Let me share the example:
Computer do nothing because you can't do anything to add something in the computer.
Computer do something only if you add something to create in the computer. It's an exact same with HA or CI... The HA or CI children will do NOTHING without parent's support/education. The parents feed their HA or CI children with speak/hear development. It depend on different child who is willing to learn anything or lazy to learn anything... It's same with hearing people as well...
Without their own willing, HA or CI will not works.
That's why I leave my child's choice. I will support if he/she has strong willing to learn anything.
accept the word? I never said it. You interpreted my post in wrong way. I said that we deaf have no problem to accept what we are and kind of world we have which mean is we accept hearing world where we living at.
So? I already stated that we accept hearing world.
Sad fact that hearing people are ignorant and uneducation. They should amshamed themselves that we deaf accept what they are and learn where they come from and have good patience with them.
So? I already stated that hearing people should accept what we deaf are and have different as them. We are happy what we have...
I mean that we deaf (HA & CI users) do anything to learn for hearing is speak, hear, etc for them because they expect us to be like them and feel comfortable that we speak/hear for them which is really sad. They have to accept the fact that we are different as them but we learn and accept what they are at long, long, long time ago but them. It shows their uneducation and ignorant.
Of course I know... So? I already said in previous post that we accept what we are and lead different as hearing people but we accept what hearing people are but they have the problem to accept what we are. Like what Puyo said "If hearing people don't want to write or texting, then why THEY invent the text messaging, instant messaging, emails".
I remember few of closed minded and ingorant co-workers complaint to my boss that they lose their waste time to walk to me or email to me because I can't phone. I asked him a question front of my boss: Do you have problem to use email, walk to computer room to use fax or walk to my office? and then look at my boss - then question him "Did you see me complaint that I walk to his or anyone's office for discuss about work issues or for not have fax machine in my office but just email"? I rather to walk because it's good execise for me than email to them. All what I see is that they complaint that I can't phone... :roll: (I feel like to say to them *get up and walk instead of stick his lazy a** on the chair and whines over phone* but I didn't). They are speechless...Now they know what I am - we get on well with no problem for over 15 years now...
Oh yes, we aware since our birth what kind of real world we have. It doesn't bother me. So? Hearing people have to accept the fact that we are different as them.
I would say that you need to open your mind to see the fact on both sides and accept their experiences instead of belittle and prove them wrong. I would say something when I disagree with them instead of belittle or prove them wrong.
Liebling
I asked you a question, please reply:
It's a simple question. why can't you just reply?
yet you didn't knew the difference of being implanted as late deafened and when implanted late but when one was born deaf.
I may not have one myslef but I read all I could do about it, and corresponded with people who are implanted.
You are making this up. I absolutely DO NOT pressure anyone into implanting!.
I simply want to get to the the bottom of things. People say so many false things about CI that to me it is unacceptable, simply.
I only asked you if you were born deaf or late deafened. Simple sentence "I was born deaf" or" I went deaf at 5" would suffice.
Your biography is nice, THANK YOU, but unneccessary.
No wonder you didn't receive much benefit from CI, though.
You were born deaf, implanted very late - past your linguistic development.
Also, and I am not criticizing, just stating a fact - you don't seem to have been very dedicated to work with your CI. 4 months is very little time. Very little. And it seems like you just put it on and listened, that's all. How could it be succesful?
What did he/ she said?
I hope, looking back you can see by yourself your expectations were unrealistic.
you were born deaf, you didn't had a chance to learn to hear even with what the little use of HA you had, and in order to learn Japanese you would have to FIRST work very hard at learning how to hear anything thru CI.
It's a long way from surgery to using your CI to learn Japanese.
Do you suffer from headaches otherwise?
That is sad, but try to look at it this way - they were desperate to have a better contact with you. they probably hoped if you master the CI your life will be easier. I think they did that out of love for you, not disrespect.
They didn't lie. It's just that CI is not just a matter of putting it in.
It's a lot of hard work toward understandig sounds. If you work hard enough, it could be like that. Although it depends on many circumstances.
You can still try - if you want, and you can probably still improve.
Do read "Wired fo sound".
I am talking about how the CI works, and how the HA works. they work different way. I am not talking about people.
And what do you THINK the goverment do? or better, what do you KNOW?
do you know how much money the government spends on various programs for handicapped, which includes the deaf? who pays for it all? who pays for CC?
Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I don't have CI but I have sufficient education on CI to know a thing or two about it. Just because I don't have it doesn't meant I am complete ignorant. The only thing I lack is PRACTICAL knowledge. but I can learn form those who ARE implanted.
Cloggy - how cute
this is the exact copy I have!
Fuzzy
Get of your high horse, already Jillio - you know crap. I am the person who is hearing impaired. I experience psychosocial implications of being deaf on a daily basic since birth. I wanted CI at one point of my life so I got educated on the subject. My brother was deaf so I did spend time in deaf culture.
Do you think you deeply "know and understand" deafness because you have deaf child and participate in deaf culture? that's preposterous.
My parents (hearing) too, always thought they know what's like being deaf - they knew ZIT. And so do you. So don't take that tone with me Missy because I am the one who can say from firsthand experience what's like to be deaf among hearing with all the beautiful "assistive devices and services", not you.
Liebling:
beacuse Shel is asking questions about CI that anyone who educated themselves about what is a CI, how it works, and how it is different from HA knows.
Let's compare CI to a car, for better explanation. Everybody knows what a car is but not everybody know how the car works, how it's made inside.
Most people, when a car breaks, are helpless because they don't have a clue how the car works. Some doesn't even know how to change oil.
All they know is how to hold a steering wheel, how to use brake pedal, gas pedal, the shift gear, and some other "thingies" but that is NOT knowing about the car.
It's like that with many people when it comes to CI.
Most know it's a hearing device but how exactly it works hardly anyone is interested in knowing or knows.
Many assume "it's in the brain". "The hole is huge". "it's like HA only stronger" - so such misinformation.
and why, when the correct information is available out there and the subject so vital for the deaf.
The knowledge about cars is out there, too - there are books, there are people - mechanics- who can tell you. All you have to do is WANT TO KNOW. Most don't care. Same with CI.
If Shel was truly interested, if she knew as much as she claim she knows about CI then she would know why some people need to be implanted early and why some still have great benefits when implanted late. This is basic knowledge she asks about.
I wanted to know about CI, so I read about it a lot. There are books written by people who were implanted, there are internet sites with good information, there are doctors who can explain. It's out there. If you want to know.
I think you do NOT understand the difference between the HA and CI. Otherwise you wouldn't ask such a question.
And you and other like you seem to be only interested in looking for BAD experiences to prove "how bad CI are". and yet you are not interested in WHY it is so, why the CI didn't worked in the first place.
there is always an explanation.
*sigh* I see NOTHING wrong that Maria share her view, opinion and belief. She did not say anything what she know but share her advice and suggestion. It's UP to us either we can take her advice/suggestion or not instead of take her post personal.
The problem with you and Maria and some other people is, you do NOT answer the question. Instead, you start talking about hundred other things, that have no bearing on the subject. You go off topic.
I explained many times already - Cloggy asked Maria about OTHER CHILD'S feelings. Maria replied she knows what other child feeling would be. She DOESN'T, period.
Do you Liebling can know what my feeling on using TTY is?
of course you CAN NOT know even though you too use TTY.
It's called withholding the information. In certain aspects is as bad as lying.
And please, we are NOT talking about "positive about deafness".
I don't belittle nobody.
It's not my fault when some people discuss subjects they are not fully informed about. And I am not happy when I see people are causing more confuse on the subject of CI when, as it turns out, they don't bother to know all the "whys".
As I explained already, I don't have to have CI to know how it work.
I do not collect CI or HA users opinions myself, but in the books and on the internet is plenty of such data. The book "Wired for Sound" is one huge statement about CI experience. Did you read that book?
I am sorry but again you are off subject.
it matters very much, because depending on the amount and kind of hearing loss the HA may not suffice.
the problem is if you have a deaf baby you need to chose between early implantation or late implantation. If you chose late your child will LOSE a lot of CI benefit, and will never recover the lost time. look at Puyo Piyo.
being LATE deaf makes all the difference. late deafened means they already acquired hearing and oral skills before they went deaf. It's HUGE difference between being born deaf.
IF your child is late deafened, already learned to hear and speak well then it should be OK. If your child was born deaf then is too late for full CI benefits later. They will have some, but it never as good as if implanted early.
I am sorry I just overlooked one letter. of course it was supposed to be "world".
anyway, I tried to explain that acceptance doesn't matter. whether one accept it or not we live in hearing world.
They have choice, though. they can but don't HAVE TO use it.
Fuzzy
Liebling
I am speechless. what in the world did you find in my message???
I simply stated the FACT - the deaf IS minority. Minorities DO are overlooked by majorities. The deaf HAS TO work harder than the hearing.
WHERE in the world am I belittling, and WHO ??? for god's sake.
MARIA:
I asked you a question, please reply:
It's a simple question. why can't you just reply?
yet you didn't knew the difference of being implanted as late deafened and when implanted late but when one was born deaf.
I may not have one myslef but I read all I could do about it, and corresponded with people who are implanted.
You are making this up. I absolutely DO NOT pressure anyone into implanting!.
I simply want to get to the the bottom of things. People say so many false things about CI that to me it is unacceptable, simply.
I only asked you if you were born deaf or late deafened. Simple sentence "I was born deaf" or" I went deaf at 5" would suffice.
Your biography is nice, THANK YOU, but unneccessary.
No wonder you didn't receive much benefit from CI, though.
You were born deaf, implanted very late - past your linguistic development.
Also, and I am not criticizing, just stating a fact - you don't seem to have been very dedicated to work with your CI. 4 months is very little time. Very little. And it seems like you just put it on and listened, that's all. How could it be succesful?
What did he/ she said?
I hope, looking back you can see by yourself your expectations were unrealistic.
you were born deaf, you didn't had a chance to learn to hear even with what the little use of HA you had, and in order to learn Japanese you would have to FIRST work very hard at learning how to hear anything thru CI.
It's a long way from surgery to using your CI to learn Japanese.
Do you suffer from headaches otherwise?
That is sad, but try to look at it this way - they were desperate to have a better contact with you. they probably hoped if you master the CI your life will be easier. I think they did that out of love for you, not disrespect.
They didn't lie. It's just that CI is not just a matter of putting it in.
It's a lot of hard work toward understandig sounds. If you work hard enough, it could be like that. Although it depends on many circumstances.
You can still try - if you want, and you can probably still improve.
Do read "Wired fo sound".
I am talking about how the CI works, and how the HA works. they work different way. I am not talking about people.
And what do you THINK the goverment do? or better, what do you KNOW?
do you know how much money the government spends on various programs for handicapped, which includes the deaf? who pays for it all? who pays for CC?
Unfortunately, you are mistaken. I don't have CI but I have sufficient education on CI to know a thing or two about it. Just because I don't have it doesn't meant I am complete ignorant. The only thing I lack is PRACTICAL knowledge. but I can learn form those who ARE implanted.
Cloggy - how cute
this is the exact copy I have!
Fuzzy
Oh my god..this is so funny! U are still making assumptions about my knowledge of CIs...I never said they shouldnt be implanted in babies. I have always said it is none of my business as these are not my children. If I have deaf children, I will decide for myself. I have never criticized anyone for implanting their children. As for the reasons why they work or dont work for some people, it varies but I CANT make the assumptions when I dont have the answer. I am not ASKING u or any other ADers on this board. I have asked those children's parents and audi's and I get "I dont knows." I dont need a book to read about the different reasons why the CI dont work for some people..I already know them but I cant claim that those certain reasons are why those children didnt get benefits. That would be making false assumptions about them.I am stating the fact that there are children who dont benefit from their CIs based on MY experience of teaching for 5 years. Maybe u are only exposed to the successful users? I have been exposed to both. One of my students this year does get benefit from the CI. U are just making so many assumptions when u have never met me nor see what I do daily. I know a lot about CIs from my studies at Gallaudet and friends who are CI users..I feel that I dont need to share them here when there are already people that know a lot about CIs already. :roll:
