Confederate Flag

[Tousi]

Nice installments, Reba; leave it to somebody to try and derail the thread regardless of what well-meaning folks such as yourself try to do. By the way, as I read thru all of your insertions, much of that history came thru the fog here on this end........:P

 

[Daredevel7]

Do you believe that black men were forced to fight for the Confederacy?

Does it make sense to you that the Confederate army would give loaded guns to black men who were forced against their will to join their army?

Many slave masters did NOT want their slaves to leave their plantations to join the army. Who would replace them in the field work?

If you read some of my links you would see that the black soldiers of the South volunteered, and were proud of their service.

Not all black volunteers did it for honor--the offer of freedom, and the lure of money were also reasons. (Did you read that the Southern black soldiers were paid the same, and sometimes more, than the white soldiers?)

I don't believe that they were forced due for various reasons including those you stated. But I also don't believe that most of them did it out of honor. I believe that the incentives you stated (offer of freedom and lure of money) probably accounts for most of the black Confederate soldiers. But, what do I know? Most of the Confederate records were destroyed, so anyone can make up nice little theories about them to promote their beliefs. (Not talking about you specifically, anyone can say "Blacks were forced to fight" or "Blacks actually volunteered out of honor")

 

[Babyblue]

TAMPA — Men driving pickups honked and flashed a thumbs-up sign. One yelled "Hell, yeah!" Another pumped his fist in the air.

Others, though, weren't nearly as pleased at the sight of a Confederate flag the size of a semitrailer truck flying Tuesday high above the junction of Interstates 75 and 4.

"It's huge and it's obnoxious," said Curtis Stokes, president of the Hillsborough County branch of the NAACP.

Organizers building a Civil War monument at the site said last week they hoped to fly the Confederate flag sometime next year. But they raised it shortly after sunrise Tuesday to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of Jefferson Davis, the only president of the Confederate States of America.

Meanwhile, workers poured concrete and built a block wall around the site.

"I love it. It's gorgeous," said Tanya Heard, 27, who lives nearby and pulled over to look up at the flag, along U.S. 92 in the Eureka Springs neighborhood just west of I-75.

The flag, which cost $800, was lowered at sundown and organizers said it won't go up again until the site is officially dedicated.

Stokes and Hillsborough County Commissioner Kevin White also drove by Tuesday afternoon.

"I just wish there was something from the county perspective that we could do," White said. "But we can't censor free speech."

The county exempted flags from its sign regulations in 2004. However, County Commissioner Rose Ferlita said she plans to bring the flag issue up for discussion during a board meeting today.

Tampa resident Marion Lambert, a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, paid $7,000 for the 0.19-acre site in January 2004. In February 2005, Lambert met with six planners from Hillsborough's Planning and Growth Management Department, who advised him how to prepare an application for a variance to build a monument.

In April 2005, county records show, a land use hearing officer approved Lambert's request for a lighted park with monuments and a flagpole "to commemorate American veterans."

But no one in county government asked Lambert which veterans he planned to honor, or how.

"They never asked the question, 'Well, what flag you going to put up?' " Lambert said. "I never lied to them."

While the flag's outline was visible from more than a mile away at some points, it was the view from the southbound lanes of I-75 that took drivers' breath away.

It was suddenly, jarringly there as drivers rounded a bend in the road and crested the I-4 overpass, and just as they came upon the exit sign that says "Martin Luther King Blvd. 1 mile."

The flag was national news this week on CNN and Fox News. A report posted Friday on the Times' Web site, tampabay.com, drew more than 1,200 reader comments.

While many passers-by expressed support for the flag Tuesday, Maxine Meyer, who owns a boat business next to the park, was having a "no parking" sign put in her parking lot.

She worries that visitors to the monument, which is adjacent to her property, will cause traffic jams and accidents.

"If we were going to put a flag up there, it'd be an American flag," Meyer said.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/article605727.ece

I have drove by this Flag. It still there.

Still a controversy. People that oppose to this are still trying to get it taken down.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Where can I see the source that the black men were forced to join the Confederate Army?

I use comma "...." which mean that the masters did not forced them but the black people feel being forced to join because of freedom, their masters offered them.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I would say that your teachers followed the politically correct curriculum of their time, which left a lot to be desired.

Huh? How could my teacher followed the political correct when the black and white people left America to live in Europe after Civil War. They brought their history with them to spread out in Europe.

Are you saying that European schools teach more accurate American history than American schools do?

Huh? You and I were being taught and learn by them differently.

That´s how I learn those history before 1600s and after 1700s... Remember, it´s not just America but Europe as well.

African American History Timeline: Before 1600 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1700 - 1800 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1800 - 1900 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1900 - 2000 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

When did you live in the South??? I have lived in South since 1978.

Ah, you live in South since 1970s, not 1600s.

First, You and I were not born in 1600s.

Second, You & I did not collect the experience from Civil War survivors personally.

Third, the white people who were in Civil War time, were Europeans.

Those history, they repeat to the world.

This is a true story about a free black man, former slave. His children were born free. His grown children didn't have masters because they weren't slaves. They were loyal to the Confederacy, not any former masters.

for share the story about him. It doesn´t mean all or most black men have the same experienced as him.

Yes, I saw Queen. It was filmed at a plantation just a few miles from my house.

Are you against black author Alex Haley? Just asking.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Wait, do people actually believe that MOST black men who fought in the Confederate army was completely free to do so and did it out of pure honor?

I personally don´t believe that MOST black men do that.

 

[Jiro]

Yes, you have a good point about the difference between the black soldiers between North and South. I would have agree with you on this but I was being taught at school to know that some black men were being "forced" to join for their freedom because their masters told them that they will free them if they were willing to fight for them and their country and win.

I will have a proper look at my DVD civil war which side black soldiers fought.

I use comma "...." which mean that the masters did not forced them but the black people feel being forced to join because of freedom, their masters offered them.

Actually, they (white people) said to them (black people) that they will get freedom, no more slavery if they want to fight for them. You know that black people hate slavery and want freedom that´s why they have to fight for white people to get freedom.

I learn those history from school. We (Europeans) know those history for a long time.

The white people offered black people freedom if they want to fight for them because white people know black people´s dream for freedom.

I see that you keep saying that black people were "forced" to join to fight for freedom. here's the rebuttal.

for starter - read about UNITED STATES COLORED TROOPS. Google it as well. You will see that many statements supported Reba's and Texan Guy's statements that majority of black people VOLUNTEERED for Confederate Army.

link

12. A quota was set for 300,000 black soldiers for the Confederate States Colored Troops. 83% of Richmond's male slave population volunteered for duty. A special ball was held in Richmond to raise money for uniforms for these men. Before Richmond fell, black Confederates in gray uniforms drilled in the streets. Due to the war ending, it is believed only companies or squads of these troops ever saw any action. Many more black soldiers fought for the North, but that difference was simply a difference because the North instituted this progressive policy more sooner than the more conservative South. Black soldiers from both sides received discrimination from whites who opposed the concept .

I understand that you said you learned it from teacher and dvd and stuff but when was the last time you learned it? long time ago? Is it possible that you may have misunderstood or remembered it wrong?

 

[Foxrac]

I can't say about education system in Europe because many countries are different way to teach but they are offers basic education about civil war and slavery since USA has advanced or full detail about civil war and slavery, especially most public school in southeast states since other regions are depends on teachers, it could be basic or full explanation.

Jiro and Reba made good point about black soldiers in CSA.

 

[Foxrac]

Huh? How could my teacher followed the political correct when the black and white people left America to live in Europe after Civil War. They brought their history with them to spread out in Europe.





Huh? You and I were being taught and learn by them differently.

That´s how I learn those history before 1600s and after 1700s... Remember, it´s not just America but Europe as well.

African American History Timeline: Before 1600 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1700 - 1800 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1800 - 1900 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1900 - 2000 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed




Ah, you live in South since 1970s, not 1600s.

First, You and I were not born in 1600s.

Second, You & I did not collect the experience from Civil War survivors personally.

Third, the white people who were in Civil War time, were Europeans.

Those history, they repeat to the world.




for share the story about him. It doesn´t mean all or most black men have the same experienced as him.




Are you against black author Alex Haley? Just asking.

Civil war was happened in 1861-1865, not in 1600's.

 

[Reba]

Huh? How could my teacher followed the political correct when the black and white people left America to live in Europe after Civil War. They brought their history with them to spread out in Europe.

Care to elaborate on that statement?

Huh? You and I were being taught and learn by them differently.

That´s how I learn those history before 1600s and after 1700s... Remember, it´s not just America but Europe as well.

African American History Timeline: Before 1600 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1700 - 1800 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1800 - 1900 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

African American History Timeline: 1900 - 2000 | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

I'll look at your links later when I'm at my home computer. I'm on my BB now.

Ah, you live in South since 1970s, not 1600s.

First, You and I were not born in 1600s.

Second, You & I did not collect the experience from Civil War survivors personally.

Third, the white people who were in Civil War time, were Europeans.

Those history, they repeat to the world.

for share the story about him. It doesn´t mean all or most black men have the same experienced as him.

Are you against black author Alex Haley? Just asking.

Why would you even ask such a question? I have never posted anything against Mr. Haley

No, I have nothing against Alex Haley.

 

[Byrdie714]

I see that you keep saying that black people were "forced" to join to fight for freedom. here's the rebuttal.

for starter - read about UNITED STATES COLORED TROOPS. Google it as well. You will see that many statements supported Reba's and Texan Guy's statements that majority of black people VOLUNTEERED for Confederate Army.

link


I understand that you said you learned it from teacher and dvd and stuff but when was the last time you learned it? long time ago? Is it possible that you may have misunderstood or remembered it wrong?

Do you actually believe that the "Colored Men" knew how to read that advertisement considering that slave masters didn't/wouldn't teach their slaves how to read?

 

[Reba]

Do you actually believe that the "Colored Men" knew how to read that advertisement considering that slave masters didn't/wouldn't teach their slaves how to read?

More black people knew how to read than what you think. Not all slave owners followed the law. . Also, those who could read would quickly share information by word of mouth.

 

[Daredevel7]

Who says that the advertisement was for the Confederate Army?

 

[Jiro]

Do you actually believe that the "Colored Men" knew how to read that advertisement considering that slave masters didn't/wouldn't teach their slaves how to read?

that ad was for Union Army...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Civil war was happened in 1861-1865, not in 1600's.

I am not talking about Civil war but black slavey history.

 

[Foxrac]

I am not talking about Civil war but black slavey history.

Black slavery were started in southeast states in 1800's, except for colony states.

Prior to 1776, US were under Britain rule.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Black slavery were started in southeast states in 1800's, not 1600's again, except for colony states.

Prior to 1776, US were under Britain rule.

Have you look the link, I posted over African American history?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

More black people knew how to read than what you think. Not all slave owners followed the law. . Also, those who could read would quickly share information by word of mouth.

Actually, some good slave owners, not most or all but why they made the posters when they know that black people can´t read? They also know that it´s illegal to teach black people to read and write?

 

[Foxrac]

Have you look the link, I posted over African American history?

Yup, I did but southeast states were start only region for slavery in 1800's since northern and midwest states already abolished the slavery.

 

[Jiro]

Liebling - here's some detail about The Civil War and Emancipation. It's not what you thought. Even though Civil War is widely known by many.... it is one of the most misunderstood historical events... along with Roe v. Wade too.