Complain/Praise on Obama

[darkdog]

telling the middle class to spend less is easier said than done. how do you account for medical bills, child care or paying off debt accumulated from a student loan?

personally, i think rich people ought to cut their spending. after all, is it really necessary to live in a $2 million home? i think not.

In most cases, if you're being thrifty and still can't afford those things, you're probably not making a middle-class income. And as I mentioned, I'm not talking about those people who come on hard times through no fault of their own.

equating an NFL player to someone who is middle class is an unfair comparison. even if an NFL player is expected to cut their spending, they still have a significantly higher percentage of money left over than those who are considered middle class.

I bring that up because NFL players have spent beyond their means. They suddenly get rich, go crazy, and next thing they know, they're broke. In other words, it's a responsibility for everyone to be careful with money.

my point is, the difference between what is paid by the rich vs. the middle class should be significantly more -- and it's not.

My point is that difference is already more than any other country in the world, even after the Bush tax cuts. My point is also that when you cut the rich's tax rates, they actually pay more of the total taxes. I give explanations in the posts I linked to.

100%

Let me give you a real life reason for why this, or any super high number, is a bad idea. I know a guy who's currently middle class and will very likely be rich in the next few years- my dad. He is currently working on an invention. Very few people in the world have the expertise he has to come up with the idea. He has now spent years working on it. He has a contract with a large company where they fund it and he will get a percent of the royalties. In a few months, the prototypes will be finished and ready to test. After that, they will start making production units to be used for real. Without going into details of the invention, it is expected to save the oil industry billions of dollars a year. Those savings, of course, will pass on to regular consumers like us, not only directly at the gas pump, but also at the store when we buy things that have been shipped by trucks that use gasoline. My dad's reward will be in the millions. If the government rushed in and took all or most of his reward away, would he have worked so hard and risked so much of his own money to make it happen in the first place? No way. The end result? The government's revenue doesn't increase because there's nothing to tax and society doesn't get the wealth his invention would have provided. Everyone loses. The less you tax the rich, the more people are willing and able to take the risks and put in the hard work necessary to become rich. Everything's a trade-off.

By the way, my dad probably won't go out and buy a $2 million house, but if he does, so what? He earned it legitimately through years of honest hard work. As long as he doesn't overspend and run to the government for a bailout, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with how he chooses to spend his money.

 

[Hear Again]

when i talk about rich people paying higher taxes, i'm referring to those who didn't earn the right to receive the income they have through hard work. (i.e. some musicians and celebrities)

 

[jillio]

VIOLATION - IMPROPER FORMAT OF JIRO'S TRADEMARK

EPIC FAIL

**jillio hanging her head in shame and signing, "Sorry".**

 

[jillio]

In most cases, if you're being thrifty and still can't afford those things, you're probably not making a middle-class income. And as I mentioned, I'm not talking about those people who come on hard times through no fault of their own.


I bring that up because NFL players have spent beyond their means. They suddenly get rich, go crazy, and next thing they know, they're broke. In other words, it's a responsibility for everyone to be careful with money.


My point is that difference is already more than any other country in the world, even after the Bush tax cuts. My point is also that when you cut the rich's tax rates, they actually pay more of the total taxes. I give explanations in the posts I linked to.


Let me give you a real life reason for why this, or any super high number, is a bad idea. I know a guy who's currently middle class and will very likely be rich in the next few years- my dad. He is currently working on an invention. Very few people in the world have the expertise he has to come up with the idea. He has now spent years working on it. He has a contract with a large company where they fund it and he will get a percent of the royalties. In a few months, the prototypes will be finished and ready to test. After that, they will start making production units to be used for real. Without going into details of the invention, it is expected to save the oil industry billions of dollars a year. Those savings, of course, will pass on to regular consumers like us, not only directly at the gas pump, but also at the store when we buy things that have been shipped by trucks that use gasoline. My dad's reward will be in the millions. If the government rushed in and took all or most of his reward away, would he have worked so hard and risked so much of his own money to make it happen in the first place? No way. The end result? The government's revenue doesn't increase because there's nothing to tax and society doesn't get the wealth his invention would have provided. Everyone loses. The less you tax the rich, the more people are willing and able to take the risks and put in the hard work necessary to become rich. Everything's a trade-off.

By the way, my dad probably won't go out and buy a $2 million house, but if he does, so what? He earned it legitimately through years of honest hard work. As long as he doesn't overspend and run to the government for a bailout, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with how he chooses to spend his money.

And all of the costs necessary to bring an invention from idea to product are tax deductable. I doubt that your father will suffer much at all from his efforts, or his increased income, should it happen.

 

[Reba]

when i talk about rich people paying higher taxes, i'm referring to those who didn't earn the right to receive the income they have through hard work. (i.e. some musicians and celebrities)

Unless they stole, lied, or cheated to get their money, why don't they deserve it? Your statement sounds like envy.

 

[jillio]

Unless they stole, lied, or cheated to get their money, why don't they deserve it? Your statement sounds like envy.

Given some of the news reports we get, looks like there is a lot of stealing, lying, and cheating going on in the upper echelons.

 

[Hear Again]

Given some of the news reports we get, looks like there is a lot of stealing, lying, and cheating going on in the upper echelons.

yep -- and you don't hear reba complaining about that. hmmm.

 

[shel90]

Unless they stole, lied, or cheated to get their money, why don't they deserve it? Your statement sounds like envy.

Do u think professional athletes deserve to make 15 million dollars a year? Movies starts make 20 million a movie?

 

[Hear Again]

Unless they stole, lied, or cheated to get their money, why don't they deserve it? Your statement sounds like envy.

envious? hardly. i'm not the kind of person who thinks money is the key to happiness unlike some people who enter certain careers simply for fame and fortune. sorry to disappoint you reba, but that's not my style.

 

[jillio]

Do u think professional athletes deserve to make 15 million dollars a year? Movies starts make 20 million a movie?

Absolutely not, and it says a lot about the values of the American public.

 

[Hear Again]

reba,

why are you against the middle class paying lower taxes? as a terp, i know you don't make a triple digit annual income.

 

[Reba]

Let me give you a real life reason for why this, or any super high number, is a bad idea. I know a guy who's currently middle class and will very likely be rich in the next few years- my dad. He is currently working on an invention. Very few people in the world have the expertise he has to come up with the idea. He has now spent years working on it. He has a contract with a large company where they fund it and he will get a percent of the royalties. In a few months, the prototypes will be finished and ready to test. After that, they will start making production units to be used for real. Without going into details of the invention, it is expected to save the oil industry billions of dollars a year. Those savings, of course, will pass on to regular consumers like us, not only directly at the gas pump, but also at the store when we buy things that have been shipped by trucks that use gasoline. My dad's reward will be in the millions. If the government rushed in and took all or most of his reward away, would he have worked so hard and risked so much of his own money to make it happen in the first place? No way. The end result? The government's revenue doesn't increase because there's nothing to tax and society doesn't get the wealth his invention would have provided. Everyone loses. The less you tax the rich, the more people are willing and able to take the risks and put in the hard work necessary to become rich. Everything's a trade-off.

By the way, my dad probably won't go out and buy a $2 million house, but if he does, so what? He earned it legitimately through years of honest hard work. As long as he doesn't overspend and run to the government for a bailout, I don't see why anyone should have a problem with how he chooses to spend his money.

Kudos to your dad.

My dad was an electrical engineer with a few patents of his own. (Not big money makers but he did get some profit from them.) I respect and admire people who have that combination of creativity, focus, and technical skill.

 

[Reba]

reba,

why are you against the middle class paying lower taxes? as a terp, i know you don't make a triple digit annual income.

For me, $12,000 was a very good year.

I'm not against middle class paying lower taxes. I'm against envious attacks on wealthy people.

I want to increase my income but I don't want to decrease other people's income.

If it weren't for wealthy people, we wouldn't have investors, big ticket consumers, arts and charity patrons.

Think about it. The middle class people who work for the wealthy people wouldn't have jobs if it weren't for the wealthy people.

Think about the construction trades who build the $2-million house, the workers who make the fancy cars, the gardeners, cooks, and housekeepers who work for the wealthy, etc.

 

[darkdog]

when i talk about rich people paying higher taxes, i'm referring to those who didn't earn the right to receive the income they have through hard work. (i.e. some musicians and celebrities)

Take a famous movie star, like Angelina Jolie. Who's to say how much she deserves? The movie studio that's paying her. The reason they have to pay her millions is because she's in such high demand. If they don't offer her enough, another studio will. The reason it's worth it to them is because she draws in large audiences. They keep doing it because they know the movie will make far more profit with a big name like Angelina Jolie than with a no-name who they can pay less.

If the government tried to step in and fix it, the solution would be worse than the "problem". It usually is in such cases thanks to the law of unintended consequences.

And all of the costs necessary to bring an invention from idea to product are tax deductable. I doubt that your father will suffer much at all from his efforts, or his increased income, should it happen.

You're right about that because thankfully, we still have enough people in this country without an "eat the rich" attitude. However, if some people had their way, the rich would be taxed so much they wouldn't be rich anymore. Regardless of the tax incentives, my dad would not have had the incentive to put up the time and money against the very real risks. That or he might have moved his business to Ireland.

 

[Reba]

Given some of the news reports we get, looks like there is a lot of stealing, lying, and cheating going on in the upper echelons.

And I excluded them, didn't I? People who steal, lie, or cheat for gain in any "echelon", upper or lower, should be penalized, of course.

There are many wealthy people who are fine, honest, generous, hard-working citizens.

 

[Hear Again]

angelina jolie's in high demand just like paris hilton (the one mind you who thinks everything and everyone is "hot")? sorry, but i don't buy your argument, darkdog.

 

[jillio]

And I excluded them, didn't I? People who steal, lie, or cheat for gain in any "echelon", upper or lower, should be penalized, of course.

There are many wealthy people who are fine, honest, generous, hard-working citizens.

And, those are the ones, I am sure, that are already aware of and willing to accept some social responsibility for giving back to the system that has permitted them to become wealthy. Which means they aren't going to be doing a lot of complaining, and are no doubt already making sure that they take actions that contribute to the better functioning of society as a whole.

 

[Reba]

Do u think professional athletes deserve to make 15 million dollars a year? Movies starts make 20 million a movie?

They "deserve" whatever the market will bear.

If sports fans think their heroes are earning too much, then they should quit buying game tickets and team logo paraphernalia. If people think movie stars earn too much they should quit buying expensive movie tickets and DVDs.

As long as "stars" draw the money into their industries, they will be compensated. No one is forced to support them.

 

[Hear Again]

reba,

middle class people aren't just hired by the rich. they're also hired by people who don't make much more money than they do. middle class people don't owe their sense of self-worth to the rich.

 

[Hear Again]

i don't go to the movie theater to watch movies and i hardly buy DVDs, so i can complain about actors and actresses who make too much money all i want.