cochlear implants

Is the issue really about a parent deciding to have their child implanted? I know of defies that made the decision on their own but their peers weren’t supportive of their decision. It appears to me the REAL issue is how someone that is deaf (in any form) will choose to assimilate with the hearing world or even IF they will assimilate. Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems like for some, assimilation, or the desire to, is the real issue here.

I am visually impaired and have been since birth. To those that are against parents making decisions for their children, I ask this. Should my parents have been allowed to make the decision to have my eye operated on? I was under two years old when I had that operation. The surgery carried risks and possible complications just as ANY operation does. If things went wrong I could have been left blind in one eye. The operation (if successful) also carried rewards and the promise to enhance the quality of my life. Did my parents make the right decision? Was it wrong for them to have me prescribed for glasses and wear them since I was two years old? I am glad that my parents did for me what they felt was in my best interest. Why, because I was way too young and not educated enough to make that decision for myself. If they chose to wait I would have paid a heavy price in terms of achievement. I am very happy they made that decision for me. I still wear glasses today and do so because it enhances the quality of my life by assimilating me with the "Seeing world".

So what is wrong with people making the decision to assimilate themselves with the "hearing world" or the "mobile world" (for those with mobility impairments) or any world for that matter? If someone (anyone) feels there quality of life will be enhanced by making decisions, who are we to say they are wrong? Who are we to say they can or can’t decide? The last time I checked this was America. A place where we are free to decide as long as we remain within the boundaries of the law. If you want to take away a parents right to do what they feel is in the interest of there child, I say GOOD LUCK to you. Good luck because you will have to change laws which will take a majority to accomplish. Trust me when I tell you this. The majority of responsible sane parents (deaf and hearing) will crush any attempt to take away our rights to choose. Those that want to take away parents rights are the minority and your attempts will be futile.

Also to those that are against CI’s in general, I ask you; do you believe nothing positive ever comes to those who are implanted? From what I have read here so far, those that have been implanted (regardless of who made the decision) with successful results are very happy with the decision. If those that say "let the child decide" are not supportive of the decisions of their peers, then I have to ask. What is the real issue here? From where I stand, it appears to be assimilation. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you
 
rockdrummer,

Not everyone is going to agree with one side. I happened to disagree with having implants on children. There is nothing wrong with people feeling this way included myself. Nobody had said anything about outlawing parents rights to deciding what's best for their children. I'm only stating my beliefs as I believe as a parent, as a mother as I feel that children have the right to be heard, a voice just like everyone else. ;)


That's all I gotta say on this topic.
 
Cheri said:
rockdrummer,

Not everyone is going to agree with one side. I happened to disagree with having implants on children. There is nothing wrong with people feeling this way included myself. Nobody had said anything about outlawing parents rights to deciding what's best for their children. I'm only stating my beliefs as I believe as a parent, as a mother as I feel that children have the right to be heard, a voice just like everyone else. ;)That's all I gotta say on this topic.
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Point taken Cheri, We can agree to disagree. For me (and others) this is an emotional topic. After reading through the posts, I felt as though some were implying that it wasn't my right as a parent to choose. That is just my opinoin for what it's worth. I respect your position and your right to choose as well. And I would never second guess your choices no matter what the outcome of those choices are. As long as you made them with good intentions :hug:
 
Just because she wears CI, to pick up sounds, she is still deaf, which meaning that she is not hearing like a hearing person or equal as a hearing person. You can't tell people Well, my daughter was deaf and now she can hear, it make it sounds like she is hearing now. A lot of hearing people don't know CI unless they have deaf children or friends who wear CI. I've read about CI, and they all say the same thing it is not a cure for the deaf, it only helps them with sounds.
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__________________

Thank you, I have said it all along. ;) That reminds me when I was a child with HA that is no difference from what her child did go through all that same old cycle from audiologist / speech therapy. Whoooppeee dooo!!! It doesnt really surprised me at all after all she is still legally deaf. Same old behavior patterns that has not changed much. Of course parent are so thrilled my child can speak and hear but there is no such thing about that anymore cuz it s same old cycle of people out there kept saying.. oooo you can speak.. Whats the big deal! DONT give a big lie about our deafness that will never become hearing unless a person is latened deaf that is a formerly hearing person. Thanks!

Some CI cannot speak well and Many of deafies are not functionally hearing. I am not gonna to listen someone who thinks a child is a hearing child.. That turns me off and spilt on negative fib on that issues. No wonder most of us have to have an interpreter, lipread, use our receptive eyes as usual and sign languages.

There is no way you can change us and our adaption that will helps us better than depend on deaf ears if you mind. It s much safer than listen all kind of sound that comes from noise pollution. You wont hear one sound everywhere that what I am trying to say we are not capable to hear like a functionally hearing or become a hearing person.. Thats out of question whatever Cloggy said **RME**.. So be it!

I'm not debating this "per se". I would rather prefer to have myself (I do have a CI) or my son/daughter if they had a CI (they do not and can hear just fine) not play a sport where the chances are good that one's head could be impacted helmet or no. I look at simply from the standpoint of the odds. Now, I did let Cheri know that I wouldn't let my son play football or do boxing even there is no CI involved. It's just that the same principle applies with the odds of a head injury over time.
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Thank you for your honest. It s kinda sad to limit those d/Deaf children to play a "rough" sport. As for a swimmer with their device cannot go deeper in the water that will ruin your device inside your head. Thats scuba diver that CIer people cannot have that.


I'm not sure why you think ice hockey doesn't require a helmet. All levels of the sport including the NHL requires a helmet period...no exception period. There were a couple who were "grandfathered" in without the requirement. I don't know if any of the them are still playing. So, by your argument, ice hockey would be acceptable.
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Thank you for saying it aloud! I cannot believe this person is actually saying that.. OH brother! it required to have an helmet anyway. It s restriction rules as is.


"And the possibility that a child might fall... how about the dangers in traffic when the child is deaf?"
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:-o what a real outrageous question that you have asked us?.. Look all of us deafies are much native with a very natural deafness in this forums that are much alive. Dont you see it?????

Stop using an excuse to find something that Deaf itself is too dangerous to live with. We deafies are fine and capable to drive, walk, run, play, work, read , write , focus, use the receptive eyes, feel the vibration, windy, dust, and many things. JEEZ I dont need to depend on CI or HA devices. YOu cannot accept the Deaf reality.

There is no such thing about cure or miracle our deafness from CI devices.. SIGHS!! Dont act like a GOD or Faith Leap. Thats turn me off in big time.
 
HI everyone,

I just happened to come across this topic and thought I would put my 2 cents in here. Hope youd ont mind?

My views on CI are if your an adult then more than welcome to get one. I have no problem with your choice to try to improve your hearing.

However, to implant a small child with a CI IN MY OPINION only is crazyness. And I feel it should be considered child abuse to do so. Now I know that remark there will tee some of you off right from the get-go.


The reason I have for feeling this way is because of the simple fact that CI's have only been around a relatively short time in the medical field. Now some of you may argue but such and such years is not a short time. It is when you ask yourself, is there long term data showing what can happen with a CI after such and such amount of time? Let me ask you something?


Would you take a certain medication for 20 years without knowing what the LONG TERM side effects are going to be? Heck no you wouldnt. So why would you want to implant a device pretty much into your head without knowing what could happen in 20 years?

As an adult you are capable of making the decision and doing so knowingly of what you are getting into. But to do it to a child, that is another thing altogether.

Yes I realize the earlier the better. But they say the same thing about abortion too. The earlier the better. Yes yes yes I know abortion and CI is not the same thing. But are they really so different? Everybody reacts differently to anything and everything. What if your child had a reaction to the CI and died? What if 10 years down the road the CI works its way into the brain? What if 20 years from now the CI starts corroding?

You can say yeah but that baby or young child wont be young anymore. Ok fine lets go there. Do you want your child dead, or a vegetable 10 or 20 years later?

Some of you MAY say yeah but that wont happen to my child. Or I have to believe the best I can. Sure we all WANT to believe it cant happen to us or that we have to believe the best. What if your the *odd man out* and it happens to be your child that has a bad reaction or as stated above.

Even though our children grow up do they ever stop being our babies? No they dont so why risk it?


Now please remember these are only MY thoughts and MY opinions. I may be a crazy lady or I may not make sense to some of you. Or I may not know what the heck I am talking about.

But, I do know that to make my child hearing, the decision to IMPLANT something in my child would be a NON decision for me. Because it would be a resounding NO.


One of you asked well what if your child was missing legs and the doctors said they could surgically attach new ones? I would say ok how long has this been around? 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? Gee nope sorry hasnt been around long enough to risk MY CHILD.

When my child became an adult and wanted a CI or whatever then it is up to them but until that child is 18 heck no!!

If by then it is too late I would rather have my child alive and blaming me for ruining his or her chances at hearing or whatever it is. Than trying to do what I think is best and dead.

I can accept a LIVE deaf child or a LIVE handicapped child but I cannot accept a DEAD one.

In response to a post earlier made by Sweetmind, it is child abuse for a parent not to learn a language that a deaf child needs. ANY visual based language should be learned by parents of a young child. And not to do so is neglect.

No one said that a hearing parent had to learn all the signs in a year. The point is for the child and the parents to learn and grow together.

I am a latened deaf individual, I grew up hearing and didnt lose my hearing til I was 14. So ask yourself, why would someone like me who knows what that child is missing by NOT hearing to NOT do all they can to help their child hear?

Simply, because I weighed the options in my mind it is not worth the risk to implant a young child.

However, I do disagree with some of you and especially you Sweetmind about not teaching a child a verbal language at an early age as well. Unfortunately, we all live in a very verbal world. Some people are lucky enough to own their own businesses and they can decide if they want to use their voice or not. However, the majority of us dont. We do have to get a long in a hearing society. Like it or not, I know and I do agree why should we learn THEIR language if they REFUSE to learn ours? Well the answer is simple really. Do you want a job? Ok ok dont yell at me but sadly that is the way the world works.

Sweetmind, I respect your opinions cause you grew up deaf in a hearing household, so you do know some of what you are talking about as a deaf child being *Forced* to be hearing. That is wrong, I agree.

But, I do know what it is like for a deaf individual to try to struggle in a *hearing world*. But most importantly I know what it is like to be a *deaf, but very well hearing and very well oral* person trying to grow up as a deaf individual in a hearing world. For a very long time I didnt *FIT* in neither world. But at least I had the oral speech to help me get along in the hearing workforce. All children should have that advantage.


In closing, I want you all to remember that I recognize these as JUST MY OPINIONS, and do not expect you all to agree with me.

I respect everyones opinion on the matter and do wish to hear both sides.

Bear
 
However, I do disagree with some of you and especially you Sweetmind about not teaching a child a verbal language at an early age as well. Unfortunately, we all live in a very verbal world. Some people are lucky enough to own their own businesses and they can decide if they want to use their voice or not. However, the majority of us dont. We do have to get a long in a hearing society. Like it or not, I know and I do agree why should we learn THEIR language if they REFUSE to learn ours? Well the answer is simple really. Do you want a job? Ok ok dont yell at me but sadly that is the way the world works.
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Well, I think you forgot about many of deafies have a very variety kind voice tones between harsh and nice deaf voices. Why would you accept of parents or speech therapy teacher lied to them after all it s not excellent for them to use their deaf voices with orally speaking? I dont think it s fair for deafies who did not know how bad it is after all that trouble they went through. So tell me why there are so many deafies s written english is not perfect as well as a hearing person too? Who s faults that? of course Audist attitude who have the negative view of our deafness that can help us to use our receptive eyes and brain works that doent interfere by those sounds around you.

Also you cannot judge on our deafness in one sided because it s not gonna to be the same like u latened deaf that compares profoundly deaf vs profoundly deaf or latened deaf.. one doesnt work and other does work with CI or both failed. Thats what I m seeing there is no way to fix/repair our deafness to make it functionally hearing..

Thats my whole point is that it s very important for them to have a true language first before u can learn how to speak. After three years old they will learn from word to word with ASL since we all know under two years old do not speak at that age. It s too early to force them to hear and speak.. For god s sake.. !

More than 30 years I have been practiced to listen and speak all the times.. GUESS WHAT!!! Sorry! Audist attitude people are not successful to conform me as a hearing person or can functionally hearing with HA.. Tough luck! I am glad i am naturally deaf and learn so much more about being useful of adaption. What a relief!

NO way for legally deaf that become a hearing person or functionally hearing 100 percent with Devices unless a person is latened deaf but it s still no promise to get their hearing back.. I do not believe it .. PERIOD!!!!


Smile!
Sweetmind
 
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Bear said:
The reason I have for feeling this way is because of the simple fact that CI's have only been around a relatively short time in the medical field. Now some of you may argue but such and such years is not a short time. It is when you ask yourself, is there long term data showing what can happen with a CI after such and such amount of time? Let me ask you something?


Would you take a certain medication for 20 years without knowing what the LONG TERM side effects are going to be? Heck no you wouldnt. So why would you want to implant a device pretty much into your head without knowing what could happen in 20 years?

As an adult you are capable of making the decision and doing so knowingly of what you are getting into. But to do it to a child, that is another thing altogether.

Yes I realize the earlier the better. But they say the same thing about abortion too. The earlier the better. Yes yes yes I know abortion and CI is not the same thing. But are they really so different? Everybody reacts differently to anything and everything. What if your child had a reaction to the CI and died? What if 10 years down the road the CI works its way into the brain? What if 20 years from now the CI starts corroding?
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My Freedom implant is made of titanium and platinum. Both are pure metals and do not "corrode". Besides - the ONLY part of my implant that is invasive is the electrode loop that is inside my cochlea. EVERYTHING ELSE resides OUTSIDE the head! Have you ever watched a cochlear implantation? Have you researched exactly what's involved? I've seen one LIVE. The transmitter itself simply rests in a shallow "bowl" that's carved into the bone. Its not INSIDE the head or in the brain, and its removable (you can even with minor surgery remove the metal center of it in order to have an MRI!).

They've done massive research with regards to the way the head reacts to metals and have found time and time again it is safe - why else do you think they use metal clips and screws to hold together the plates of the head when they have to do brain surgery on someone, or if they've cracked their head open from an accident? All you have to do is talk to adults who were implanted as a child and find out from them. So YES the research is there.

I understand your fears - nobody is FORCING your child to get an implant. But if somebody does make the choice to have their child implanted you should respect that choice. They are doing what they believe is best for their child, and that should be of no consequence to you.
 
Sweetmind said:
Also you cannot judge on our deafness in one sided because it s not gonna to be the same like u latened deaf that compares profoundly deaf vs profoundly deaf or latened deaf.. one doesnt work and other does work with CI or both failed. Thats what I m seeing there is no way to fix/repair our deafness to make it functionally hearing..
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I'm sorry but I have a CI and while I'm not a 100% "functional hearing" person now, I come DAMN close! Why 3 months post activation, I was using a phone to converse with friends and family! I know from a biological standpoint I'm clinically deaf if I'm not wearing my processor - but I wear it every waking moment that I can, and I LOVE being able to hear.

Thats my whole point is that it s very important for them to have a true language first before u can learn how to speak. After three years old they will learn from word to word with ASL since we all know under two years old do not speak at that age. It s too early to force them to hear and speak.. For god s sake.. !

More than 30 years I have been practiced to listen and speak all the times.. GUESS WHAT!!! Sorry! Audist attitude people are not successful to conform me as a hearing person or can functionally hearing with HA.. Tough luck! I am glad i am naturally deaf and learn so much more about being useful of adaption. What a relief!
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Your letting YOUR bad experiences color your opinion on how it will be for everybody. News flash for you - I have friends who were born deaf and they have PERFECT speech. And not just 1 or 2 people but MANY. How would you explain that? One of my best friends is a very successful ultrasound technician and she has fantastic speech. How is that an "audist attitude" when its proven that many people who are born deaf CAN learn to speak concisely? Just because YOU didn't doesn't mean its a total failure and should never be attempted with anyone else.

NO way for legally deaf that become a hearing person or functionally hearing 100 percent with Devices unless a person is latened deaf but it s still no promise to get their hearing back.. I do not believe it .. PERIOD!!!!
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You can chose to not believe it - but the evidence has been presented to you time and time again- look at the posters who have discussed the success rates of their children. I believe it was Cloggy who said her 3 year old daughter can use the phone, perfectly repeats what is told to her, and even uses intonation! That's pretty close to being "functionally hearing with the assistance of a CI" in my eyes! (And I'm so thrilled for her!)
 
Sweetmind said:
Thats out of question whatever Cloggy said **RME**.. .. .
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Amazing how a deaf person can judge my daughters ability to speak..

BTW... what's "**RME**"
 
Bear said:
......However, the majority of us dont. We do have to get a long in a hearing society. Like it or not, I know and I do agree why should we learn THEIR language if they REFUSE to learn ours? ......
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Hi Bear, nice to see you participate.

Regarding REFUSE to learn.....
Bear, do you speak Chinese..... Russian, Dutch, French, Norwegian, and still, there are Chinese, Russian, Dutch etc. people around you..
Why do you refuse to speak those languages?
 
Actually the implant does not restore normal hearing but it does improve the person's ability to hear environmental sounds, to hear rhythms and patterns of speech, and to lip reading better too but it doesn't show any facts or evidences that leads to believe that CI users is able to hear 100%...
 
Cloggy said:
Regarding REFUSE to learn.....
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I think she meant Deaf Culture's language, but I may be wrong...



Since you rather your child raise in the hearing world only, yet as a parent do you think it's fair for your daughter is to be only known in the hearing world, not both hearing and the deaf worlds?...
 
Cloggy said:
Amazing how a deaf person can judge my daughters ability to speak..
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She is not talking about your daughter's ability to speak, She is talking about your words of putting in that your child is hearing, when your daughter is not hearing, She only hears when she has a CI on, but not the same as a hearing person. You know being deaf was not a tragedy, There are best educational out there for the deaf, Oral, Total Communication, Mainstream, Deaf education. You never gave your daughter a chance to experience her role of being deaf, It's almost like telling your daughter she isn't good enough as being deaf. Just because you are hearing you want your daughter to be you, When she is not you. She is her own person. She's special because she is deaf. You took her rights away. :(


BTW... what's "**RME**"
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Stands for "Rolling my eyes"
 
Cheri said:
She is not talking about your daughter's ability to speak, She is talking about your words of putting in that your child is hearing, when your daughter is not hearing, She only hears when she has a CI on, but not the same as a hearing person. You know being deaf was not a tragedy, There are best educational out there for the deaf, Oral, Total Communication, Mainstream, Deaf education. You never gave your daughter a chance to experience her role of being deaf, It's almost like telling your daughter she isn't good enough as being deaf. Just because you are hearing you want your daughter to be you, When she is not you. She is her own person. She's special because she is deaf. You took her rights away. :(
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I'm going to have to take a break, and walk away from this thread - this is, without a doubt, the most judgemental, accusatory, and asinine comment I have read in YEARS.

If her daughter WANTS to integrate with other deaf people the opportunity is THERE....how dare you say she took her daughter's rights away. With her CI she has MORE chances at communication than without it. Why can't YOU respect her choice and the fact her daughter is happy, and let them live their own lives? They're not telling YOU what to do.
 
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I am sorry I didn't mean to be harsh, I was only expressing my opinion opposite of some of you, when it involves children. I am not the least bit interested in bashing you or anyone else in here, I've got bashed from some of you too. Do you see me leaving AD. I've been a member here since 2003, I've got bashed right and left. I'm only stating my opinion how I feel, If that so wrong, fine be it. I'll just keep things to myself for now on then.
 
Cheri said:
She is not talking about your daughter's ability to speak, She is talking about your words of putting in that your child is hearing, when your daughter is not hearing,

Cloggy: OK, define deafness, define hearing. In my opinion, she hears. She uses speech to communicate with persons outside of her visible range. She listens to people that are outside of her visible range.

She only hears when she has a CI on, but not the same as a hearing person. You know being deaf was not a tragedy, There are best educational out there for the deaf, Oral, Total Communication, Mainstream, Deaf education. You never gave your daughter a chance to experience her role of being deaf,

Cloggy: You are right. But that's the sacrifice for giving her the ability to hear.

It's almost like telling your daughter she isn't good enough as being deaf.

Cloggy: Why does that argument come up every time? She's a wonderful child, so why woold I take away the possibility for her to hear? She would have been a fantastic deaf person. Now she is a fantastic hearing person. Perhaps both.

Just because you are hearing you want your daughter to be you, When she is not you. She is her own person. She's special because she is deaf. You took her rights away. :(

Cloggy: What rights? There is no "right to be deaf" as there is no "right to hear". I gave her possibilities. I gave her options. I did not sit down and wait to see where it would end.

Stands for "Rolling my eyes"
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Again, define "deafness", define "hearing" please.
 
We know the long term 'side effects' of deafness unfortunately Bear, Isolation, poor access to the outside world, a communication set up riddled with 'My mode is best' advocates, political and personal attacks depending on a db loss here or there, 'cultural supremacy' advocates, support systems at odds with rights, misinformation merchants vying for 'control' of deaf people, educational apartheid. It isn't hearing aids or CI's behind the many issues that confront us on the street, which are choices and a right, but all of the above. The much wanted and lauded 'Unity' seems as far off as ever, the thing about human rights is it neglects the fact not all humans are the same or want the same things ! Total rights as anyone knows, equals total anarchy.
 
Passivist said:
We know the long term 'side effects' of deafness unfortunately Bear, Isolation, poor access to the outside world, a communication set up riddled with 'My mode is best' advocates, political and personal attacks depending on a db loss here or there, 'cultural supremacy' advocates, support systems at odds with rights, misinformation merchants vying for 'control' of deaf people, educational apartheid. It isn't hearing aids or CI's behind the many issues that confront us on the street, which are choices and a right, but all of the above. The much wanted and lauded 'Unity' seems as far off as ever, the thing about human rights is it neglects the fact not all humans are the same or want the same things ! Total rights as anyone knows, equals total anarchy.
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Never looked at it this way - "Long-term side effects of deafness."
I agree with you.
 
^Angel^ said:
I think she meant Deaf Culture's language, but I may be wrong.....
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I assume it's the idea that everything would be better if everyone learned the Deaf language - Sign.
^Angel^ said:
Since you rather your child raise in the hearing world only, yet as a parent do you think it's fair for your daughter is to be only known in the hearing world, not both hearing and the deaf worlds?...
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I don't think you can live in both. She can sign and will continue learning it. And we will keep contact with Deaf world. But someone who hears, can he/she really imagine being deaf? Someone who's deaf, can he/she really imaging to hear sounds? Even people that lost their hearing still hang on to the hearing world for very long. Eventually they might move to a deaf world, but that takes time.
I'll try to find some examples.
 
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