Cochlear implant mends lives

[jillio]

What... no link to where I said that... I cannot find it... which doesn't surprise me....
I do recall saying "My daughter can hear." but be a good - welleducated, evidence proving - girl, and show me where I said that....

The number of postings inwhich you have said that are too numerous to list.

 

[jillio]

Jillo you kept saying that maybe we parents of oral deaf children let our kids know that oral is better without actually saying it. Both of my children have read many of your messages and what others say. I tell them what you and others think that I am forcing them to be oral that I am not accepting that they are deaf. Their answer to you is that you do not know who we are and how dare you say these awful things about their mother. Again I do not make assumptions of what other parents do or say but I know what I do and say to my children. My children know that they can drop their voice whenever they want if they want. They know that I am able to sign not well but that I will take more ASL classes if they choose to drop their voice. Just the other day I was signing to my niece and my daughter told me why are you doing that she does not know sign language. I told my daughter I will teach her, she said no she does not need to learn sign language because I can hear her and I can talk to her.
So why do you make assumptions about my children or me. How do you know what I say and do with my children.

The bolded comments say it all. You tell them waht I and others think when you don't even have a clue as to what I and others think. Exactly what awful things have I said about their mother? How can you teach what you don't know? Two ASL classes don't even qualify someone to converse with a deaf person, let alone teach their language. I can hear HER, and I can talk to HER. Wrong perspective. You need to reverse that.

I did not bring the issues with your daughter to this board. You are responsible for that. You have admitted that it is you who contacted the media and placed your child out in the public forum. You made the choice, and you alone have to accept the risks for doing so. You can't cry "foul" now just because everyone n the world doesn't agree with you and the methods you propose.

In addition, the comment to which you are responding was not directed at you, nor was it addressed to you. Why must you insist on taking that which wasn't intended for you and turn it into a personal assualt? Are you really that insecure in your decisions that you cannot tolerate a different opinion and that you percieve that difference of opinion as something directed right at you? They call that reaction paranoia. I do not know you, and really don't spend a great deal of my time worrying about that. You need to learn to seaparate disagreement with a philosophy and an attack of a personal nature.

 

[Cloggy]

But Cloggy said that he uses signs?? I am getting more confused with this situation..If the parents refuse to use signing with their children, then that would make sense but Cloggy said he and his family use sign with Lotte but she is responding using spoken language? I have encountered families like his in which the parents alternate between signing or spoken language and the deaf children use more spoken language at home but at school with their peers use sign language. Is that what u are saying? That the child recognizes that the spoken language is the primary mode of communication of the parents and adapts to meet the parents' needs?

Last thing I want to do is confuse anyone..
A: When we found out Lotte is deaf, we started using sign. (Actuall, allready a bit before that)
B: When Lotte got HA's, she also learned sign.
C: Us, parents also learned sign and communicated with her that way.
D: When Lotte got CI, sign was her language.
E: As Lotte got accustumed with sounds and speech, she quite quickly switched from "sign with speech" to "speech with sign"
F: We focused on speech. When speech wasn't understood we repeated it with speech and sign.
G: Lotte focused on speech. When we didn't understand her speech, she would add sign
H: When the CI is off, we use sign.. Lotte replies with speech... Hardly ever sign!

 

[Cloggy]

The number of postings inwhich you have said that are too numerous to list.

And it's heartwarming to see you cannot find any of them... not that I'm surprised.... I have never claimed my daughter is hearing... you stated that..

 

[jillio]

And it's heartwarming to see you cannot find any of them... not that I'm surprised.... I have never claimed my daughter is hearing... you stated that..

They are all over your blog and this website. All one has to do is look.

 

[neecy]

He has stated that she can hear, or that she's "hearing" WITH the CI, but he doesn't say she's biologically hearing. He's never said that - if she were biologically hearing she'd not NEED the CI, now would she?

 

[jillio]

He has stated that she can hear, or that she's "hearing" WITH the CI, but he doesn't say she's biologically hearing. He's never said that - if she were biologically hearing she'd not NEED the CI, now would she?

Please, neecy, find something to dowith your time other than jump in to defend cloggy. He said she is hearing, implied that she hears as a biologically hearing person does, and refuses to accept the fact that CI imp-lanted children do not function as hearing children, but as HOH children. Do a little research, for heaven's sake!

 

[neecy]

I give up. Sorry Cloggy, its like trying to herd cats here. At least you know where I stand, and those who KNOW you, and your experiences with your daughter truly know where you stand as well.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

As a hoh mom with a hoh child now young adult we got along just fine without ASL. In fact the child has/had selective hearing. I mean one time I recall I stood in front of her and made her repeat what I wanted her to do. She did so but it evidently went in one ear and out the other since when she didn't do the task and was asked why not she said I didn't tell her to. Her husband says he's never seen anyone so unaware of her surroundings as her. Evidently he's never seen her day focused on the task at hand and me waving my arms trying to get his attention across the yard. Oh well.

My deaf kids and my hearing husband also suffer from selective hearing. I always tell them what did I say and they tell me, mom I heard you. I tell them yes but I want to make sure so when you don't do what I asked you you can't tell me I didn't hear, remember I am deaf.

 

[jackiesolorzano]

Don't get overly frustrated. I got a bit upset a while back and then I realized that it wasn't worth much of my time to debate the difference between a technical definition of a word vs. a meaning that one may or may not have assigned to that word in conversation, or to debate what "research" is valid and what is not.

There are people out there having what they consider success via oral-only educational settings. I have seen some of these kids and I feel they are "successes". This is much of the reason my son now has bilateral implants. The scientific, longitudinal data on these kids who are reporting such success won't be out for years.

There are also people out there that would never agree that those kids are having success, because their opinion is that they would have had more success if they had manual communication as well, and if they were not robbed of their identity as a human (among other reasons).

Debate is a healthy exercise in learning, but if you let this message board get you too upset it quickly becomes draining and unhealthy. Be careful!

You are so right

 

[rick48]

I give up. Sorry Cloggy, its like trying to herd cats here. At least you know where I stand, and those who KNOW you, and your experiences with your daughter truly know where you stand as well.

Neecy,

I have a cat and to compare her to certain people on this forum is an insult!

Don't let her bully you, one of her favorite tactics, she butts into everyone else's topics and constantly defends/agrees with one poster in particular. As has become evident over her numerous postings, she has one set of standards for herself and another for everyone else.

Not that Cloggy needs any defense with respect to her, but you were 100% right in your post.
Rick

 

[rick48]

Hi Rick I kinda figured that you daughter took the ASL as her forgien language requirement. My three girls who've gone through college all took ASL for that requirement. Only the youngest of the three actually ever uses it at times. she's the hoh one.

JAG,

That's right. Actually, twice I had signed her up for ASL classes as a teen but she did not want to go and take the course.
Rick

 

[rick48]

I said treated, not said. You need to learn to read with a greater degree of comprehension. And, BTW--did your daughter not learn sign language after she became old enough to make her own decisions, or were you making that up? And I stand by my assertion that proposing oral language as the ONLY method of communication, and treating manual communication as if it were a crutch does immeasureable harm to deaf children educationally and socially. If you could step out of your little self constructed oralist box long enough to look around and have a little empathy for those in the population that share your daughter's deafness, you would understand that. But I suppose since your wife did all the work, as you have admitted, in raising your daughter, and she is now of adult age, you figure your job is finished.

"BTW--did your daughter not learn sign language after she became old enough to make her own decisions, or were you making that up?"

Actually, it was my suggestion that she take the course (now two) but her decision.

"And I stand by my assertion that proposing oral language as the ONLY method of communication, and treating manual communication as if it were a crutch does immeasureable harm to deaf children educationally and socially."

No need to be so formal, relax and feel free to sit by your assertion if it is more comfortable. Since I do not and have never felt sign language is a "crutch", not sure why you are directing your assertion towards me, however, if you believe that choosing an oral only method of communication is harmful to all deaf children then you are wrong.


"If you could step out of your little self constructed oralist box long enough to look around and have a little empathy for those in the population that share your daughter's deafness, you would understand that."

I do have empathy, especially for those deaf children who have been and are continuing to be denied the opportunity to develop their oral language skills to the best of their abilities by their parents and those in the Deaf community that promote an agenda over the interests of children. BTW that's a neat little term: "self constructed oralist box" did you think that up all by yourself or is it from the anti-ci manifesto?

"But I suppose since your wife did all the work, as you have admitted, in raising your daughter, and she is now of adult age, you figure your job is finished"

Actually, I think I said I give my wife all the credit for raising our daughter to become the person she is, not that she did all the work, but why quibble wit success? Bottom-line is that we acted in her best interests and now she has real opportunities and choices.

"Finished"?? I guess I should not have stayed up late the other night waiting for her to call me telling me that she arrived safely at a friend's house? "Job"??? Far from it, it is the best thing that one can ever do. Maybe a "job" is how you look at your role as a parent but not us.

 

[jillio]

"BTW--did your daughter not learn sign language after she became old enough to make her own decisions, or were you making that up?"

Actually, it was my suggestion that she take the course (now two) but her decision.

And if you suggested at this point in time, why wa it not suggested as a method of receptive communication earlier? The fact that she decided to do so speaks volumes.

"And I stand by my assertion that proposing oral language as the ONLY method of communication, and treating manual communication as if it were a crutch does immeasureable harm to deaf children educationally and socially."

No need to be so formal, relax and feel free to sit by your assertion if it is more comfortable. Since I do not and have never felt sign language is a "crutch", not sure why you are directing your assertion towards me, however, if you believe that choosing an oral only method of communication is harmful to all deaf children then you are wrong.

How is it that you interpret that it wa directed at you? Defensive are we? Wrong in whose opinion? Yours? A.G. Bell's? The Tracy Clinics? Empirical evidence says otherwise.


"If you could step out of your little self constructed oralist box long enough to look around and have a little empathy for those in the population that share your daughter's deafness, you would understand that."

I do have empathy, especially for those deaf children who have been and are continuing to be denied the opportunity to develop their oral language skills to the best of their abilities by their parents and those in the Deaf community that promote an agenda over the interests of children. BTW that's a neat little term: "self constructed oralist box" did you think that up all by yourself or is it from the anti-ci manifesto?

Once again, you need to get your facts straight. I am not agianst CI, but against strict oralism. Unfortunately, strict oralism seems to follow CI implantation in children. I. in fact, advocate for TC and BI-Bi. How is it that those methods deny oral skills, as you so claim?

"But I suppose since your wife did all the work, as you have admitted, in raising your daughter, and she is now of adult age, you figure your job is finished"

Actually, I think I said I give my wife all the credit for raising our daughter to become the person she is, not that she did all the work, but why quibble wit success? Bottom-line is that we acted in her best interests and now she has real opportunities and choices.

And a child that is not oral doesn't have real opportunities and choices?

"Finished"?? I guess I should not have stayed up late the other night waiting for her to call me telling me that she arrived safely at a friend's house? "Job"??? Far from it, it is the best thing that one can ever do. Maybe a "job" is how you look at your role as a parent but not us.

I thought your claim was your daughter was now able to function independently due to her wonderful oral skills and integration into the hearing world.

 

[jillio]

Neecy,

I have a cat and to compare her to certain people on this forum is an insult!

Don't let her bully you, one of her favorite tactics, she butts into everyone else's topics and constantly defends/agrees with one poster in particular. As has become evident over her numerous postings, she has one set of standards for herself and another for everyone else.

Not that Cloggy needs any defense with respect to her, but you were 100% right in your post.
Rick

Oh, those oralists! Just can't resist the opportunity to band together like a herd of feral dogs.

 

[rockdrummer]

Please, neecy, find something to dowith your time other than jump in to defend cloggy. He said she is hearing, implied that she hears as a biologically hearing person does, and refuses to accept the fact that CI imp-lanted children do not function as hearing children, but as HOH children. Do a little research, for heaven's sake!

Not to fuel the fire but I have watched Cloggy's posts (most of them) and I have not seen that statement. Is it possible to provide a link to the posts that you are talking about. Not all of them but just a couple. thanks!

 

[jillio]

Not to fuel the fire but I have watched Cloggy's posts (most of them) and I have not seen that statement. Is it possible to provide a link to the posts that you are talking about. Not all of them but just a couple. thanks!

Try his Ci=HoH=hearing, or what ever the title was, for starters. Posts stating that his daughter is hearing are all over this forum. Don't mean to sound short spoken about this, I'll search for the links when I have more time.

 

[rockdrummer]

Try his Ci=HoH=hearing, or what ever the title was, for starters. Posts stating that his daughter is hearing are all over this forum. Don't mean to sound short spoken about this, I'll search for the links when I have more time.

Yes a link would be helpful. I don't have the time to search for these and just thought that since you said they are all over the place, you would have a quick reference to a link or two. As I mentioned I have read most of his posts and several of his threads completly and don't recall him ever saying anything like that.

 

[rick48]

I thought your claim was your daughter was now able to function independently due to her wonderful oral skills and integration into the hearing world.

See my response to post #213:
That's right. Actually, twice I had signed her up for ASL classes as a teen but she did not want to go and take the course.

I guess once again you have to eat your own words about reading these posts more carefully in order to comprehend them

My daughter can function independently in the world, but that does not stop us from acting as her parents as I tell her, I guess I will have to tell you: "As long as you are living in this house, these are the rules: Call me when you are out late and going to a friend's house, so I and your mother can sleep knowing you are safe.

 

[neecy]

My daughter can function independently in the world, but that does not stop us from acting as her parents as I tell her, I guess I will have to tell you: "As long as you are living in this house, these are the rules: Call me when you are out late and going to a friend's house, so I and your mother can sleep knowing you are safe.

EXACTLY, Rick - I'm 35, and my mother STILL likes me to give her a call to "touch base" when I take trips - its called caring. She does the same and calls me when she's traveling. I'm flying from BC to NH next month, and as soon as I arrive I'll give her a call - I guess some people would think that I'm not independent because I'll let her know I arrived there safe and sound?