Cochlear implant mends lives

This thread is becoming ridiculous..

point is that there are children suffering or didnt benefit from their CIs and some children who are successful with them. Those children who are successful with them already got so much support but what about those who suffered and dont benefit from their CIs..why is that still happening? Why are they being denied a language? That is what we should be focusing on..helping those who were unable to benefit from their CIs and to educate the public about them and how important ASL is in the language development just as spoken language is important too.
 
rick48 said:
See my response to post #213:
That's right. Actually, twice I had signed her up for ASL classes as a teen but she did not want to go and take the course.

I guess once again you have to eat your own words about reading these posts more carefully in order to comprehend them :)

My daughter can function independently in the world, but that does not stop us from acting as her parents as I tell her, I guess I will have to tell you: "As long as you are living in this house, these are the rules: Call me when you are out late and going to a friend's house, so I and your mother can sleep knowing you are safe.
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And, as her parent, did you sign up for the classes as well?
 
shel90 said:
This thread is becoming ridiculous..

point is that there are children suffering or didnt benefit from their CIs and some children who are successful with them. Those children who are successful with them already got so much support but what about those who suffered and dont benefit from their CIs..why is that still happening? Why are they being denied a language? That is what we should be focusing on..helping those who were unable to benefit from their CIs and to educate the public about them and how important ASL is in the language development just as spoken language is important too.
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EXACTLY!!! Instead of . "but My child, but My child!" And I can do this, or I can do that....even though I am post lingually deafened and therefore do not encounter the same issues that a prelingually deafened child does.
 
rick48 said:
See my response to post #213:
That's right. Actually, twice I had signed her up for ASL classes as a teen but she did not want to go and take the course.

I guess once again you have to eat your own words about reading these posts more carefully in order to comprehend them :)

My daughter can function independently in the world, but that does not stop us from acting as her parents as I tell her, I guess I will have to tell you: "As long as you are living in this house, these are the rules: Call me when you are out late and going to a friend's house, so I and your mother can sleep knowing you are safe.
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And which one of us is eating their own words? Check out the current events post--aren't you the one paying off an a bet?
 
jillio said:
EXACTLY!!! Instead of . "but My child, but My child!" And I can do this, or I can do that....even though I am post lingually deafened and therefore do not encounter the same issues that a prelingually deafened child does.
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My problem is that those children who succeeded with their CIs get so much applause and recognization from the public but those who dont succeed seem to be kinda swept away and put under the rug as a dark secret? Pls tell me that is not true but that is the feeling I am getting here and if I am right then that is very very sad.
 
shel90 said:
My problem is that those children who succeeded with their CIs get so much applause and recognization from the public but those who dont succeed seem to be kinda swept away and put under the rug as a dark secret? Pls tell me that is not true but that is the feeling I am getting here and if I am right then that is very very sad.
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You hit the nail on the head with that one. Sad, but true.
 
shel90 said:
My problem is that those children who succeeded with their CIs get so much applause and recognization from the public but those who dont succeed seem to be kinda swept away and put under the rug as a dark secret? Pls tell me that is not true but that is the feeling I am getting here and if I am right then that is very very sad.
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I'm sorry but that is way to general of a statement and from where I sit it's so NOT TRUE! You are painting a dark picture here Shel that I just don't see. I agree that the statistics about the ones that are not successful need to be published so that parents can consider them in their decisions. But in no way will you convince me that these keeds are swept away and put under a rug. That sounds like the old days that maybe your parents or their parents may have seen. (I'm assuming you are younger) Or this may happen in small pockets in perhaps rural areas. I just don't see that in my area and I think you should be careful so that you don't paint a doom and gloom scenereo to anyone that is considering a CI.
 
rockdrummer said:
I'm sorry but that is way to general of a statement and from where I sit it's so NOT TRUE! You are painting a dark picture here Shel that I just don't see. I agree that the statistics about the ones that are not successful need to be published so that parents can consider them in their decisions. But in no way will you convince me that these keeds are swept away and put under a rug. That sounds like the old days that maybe your parents or their parents may have seen. (I'm assuming you are younger) Or this may happen in small pockets in perhaps rural areas. I just don't see that in my area and I think you should be careful so that you don't paint a doom and gloom scenereo to anyone that is considering a CI.
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I am talking about the media...sorry for not clarifying it more. I have never seen an article or news show showing those children who were unable to benefit from their CIs. Even the CI director said that she has contacted the media to do some news about them but they never responded to her requests about them nor about children with CIs using both languages. Know what I mean? If there are any articles or stories like that, pls let me know. I tried to find them..nothing..
 
jillio said:
And which one of us is eating their own words? Check out the current events post--aren't you the one paying off an a bet?
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Yea but I ain't eatin' my words about the choices we made for our daughter!
 
shel90 said:
I am talking about the media...sorry for not clarifying it more. I have never seen an article or news show showing those children who were unable to benefit from their CIs. Even the CI director said that she has contacted the media to do some news about them but they never responded to her requests about them nor about children with CIs using both languages. Know what I mean? If there are any articles or stories like that, pls let me know. I tried to find them..nothing..
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You are right I have not seen any articles like that. The articles written about my daughter were written not because she does well with her implant but because of our fight to get CART. At first it was hard to get the attention of the media. What I did was contact them over and over again. And maybe someone like yourself should contact them over and over again.
Our implant center which is House Ear in Los Angeles does tell parents about the kids that have not had the success that their parents were hoping for. House Ear does a very through job during the pre-implant stage. But I have seen other implants centers that seem that they are just in it for the money.
 
shel90 said:
I am talking about the media...sorry for not clarifying it more. I have never seen an article or news show showing those children who were unable to benefit from their CIs. Even the CI director said that she has contacted the media to do some news about them but they never responded to her requests about them nor about children with CIs using both languages. Know what I mean? If there are any articles or stories like that, pls let me know. I tried to find them..nothing..
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Shel, just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. I can tell you for a fact they exist. I know this because I have personally contributed to such articles. All one needs to do is search. Here are the results of a google search on cochlear implant failures.
 
rick48 said:
Yea but I ain't eatin' my words about the choices we made for our daughter!
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And neither am I eating my words about the choices I made for my son--or the choices I have allowed him to make for himself as a Deaf individual. Gonna answer the question in # 222?
 
rockdrummer said:
Shel, just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist. I can tell you for a fact they exist. I know this because I have personally contributed to such articles. All one needs to do is search. Here are the results of a google search on cochlear implant failures.
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The majority of these are what are considered to be hard failures. Shel and I are talking about the kids who are implanted, receive some benefit, but never enough to become completely oral and are left behind educationally as a result. The implant industry, and the majority of the medical professionals, audiological professionals, and professionalized hearing teachers of the deaf (hearing) consider that if some benefit is derived, and the child is able to develop some expressive oral skill (not necessarily receptive skills), that the implant has been a success. These are the children that are missing out educationally, because success is based on the wrong criteria.
 
jillio said:
The majority of these are what are considered to be hard failures. Shel and I are talking about the kids who are implanted, receive some benefit, but never enough to become completely oral and are left behind educationally as a result. The implant industry, and the majority of the medical professionals, audiological professionals, and professionalized hearing teachers of the deaf (hearing) consider that if some benefit is derived, and the child is able to develop some expressive oral skill (not necessarily receptive skills), that the implant has been a success. These are the children that are missing out educationally, because success is based on the wrong criteria.
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Right, that's what I was referring to. Thanks for clarifying it for RD. :)
 
jillio said:
The majority of these are what are considered to be hard failures. Shel and I are talking about the kids who are implanted, receive some benefit, but never enough to become completely oral and are left behind educationally as a result. The implant industry, and the majority of the medical professionals, audiological professionals, and professionalized hearing teachers of the deaf (hearing) consider that if some benefit is derived, and the child is able to develop some expressive oral skill (not necessarily receptive skills), that the implant has been a success. These are the children that are missing out educationally, because success is based on the wrong criteria.
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I doubt if the majority of the peripheral support around the deaf child has this criteria of "success". There are also a fair number of independent studies which can be found onPubmed which critically evaluate the literacy, educational and communication skills of children with CIs. So it's not something that the whole world is turning a blind eye to. However, I would definitely agree that there is a significant minority out there who project oral children with limited skills as "successes" that way. And it's sad that those children are being short changed, rather than given an individualized alternative at an early age. I'm not sure at what level with happens with children with CIs but I do remember seeing it happen back in the pre-CI days.

Also, I think that the failures are a bit more complex than simply switching to a BiBi program to solve all those problems though. There are lots of factors that apply across the board which would affect outcomes such as the level of parental support and communication, etiology of deafness, duration of deafness, presence of additional special needs, quality of the local educational program, the level of mainstream support and so on.
 
R2D2 said:
I doubt if the majority of the peripheral support around the deaf child has this criteria of "success". There are also a fair number of independent studies which can be found onPubmed which critically evaluate the literacy, educational and communication skills of children with CIs. So it's not something that the whole world is turning a blind eye to. However, I would definitely agree that there is a significant minority out there who project oral children with limited skills as "successes" that way. And it's sad that those children are being short changed, rather than given an individualized alternative at an early age. I'm not sure at what level with happens with children with CIs but I do remember seeing it happen back in the pre-CI days.

Also, I think that the failures are a bit more complex than simply switching to a BiBi program to solve all those problems though. There are lots of factors that apply across the board which would affect outcomes such as the level of parental support and communication, etiology of deafness, duration of deafness, presence of additional special needs, quality of the local educational program, the level of mainstream support and so on.
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Absolutley, all of these are confounding variables. In the 3 most recent 2007 studies that I have in front of me, and which were discussed in another thread, support continued problems in the educational environment, including the one that promotes these children as successful. The articles I am speaking of are the ones from the Oxford Journals.
 
neecy said:
I give up. Sorry Cloggy, its like trying to herd cats here. At least you know where I stand, and those who KNOW you, and your experiences with your daughter truly know where you stand as well.
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And I appreciate your efforts...
But I guess some people think they can read through the lines but only read what they want to read.....

At the moment we're on holiday in Holland. Lotte is enjoying her stay, playing with the other children in the neighbourhood. That's the advantage of her knowing Norwegian and Dutch... she just continues chatting away, and plenty of people who will listen to her.... (and she has lots to tell....)

I can imagine how that would be had she only known Norwegian sign.... People would have had a hard time understanding her... not knowing sign, let alone Norwegian sign.
We would have had to accompany her everywhere... whereas now, she just goes across the street and plays, talking to everyone who wants to listen...

I'm sure there must be some really audist attitude with lots of negative things in this post, but I'll let Killio explain all that in her sophisticated ways...

Again, thanks Neecy...
 
Cloggy said:
And I appreciate your efforts...
But I guess some people think they can read through the lines but only read what they want to read.....

At the moment we're on holiday in Holland. Lotte is enjoying her stay, playing with the other children in the neighbourhood. That's the advantage of her knowing Norwegian and Dutch... she just continues chatting away, and plenty of people who will listen to her.... (and she has lots to tell....)

I can imagine how that would be had she only known Norwegian sign.... People would have had a hard time understanding her... not knowing sign, let alone Norwegian sign.
We would have had to accompany her everywhere... whereas now, she just goes across the street and plays, talking to everyone who wants to listen...

I'm sure there must be some really audist attitude with lots of negative things in this post, but I'll let Killio explain all that in her sophisticated ways...

Again, thanks Neecy...
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Learned in another thread from another AD member that the CI center in California rejects deaf children if their families dont speak English...what do u think of that? Lotte is proof that it doesnt matter what language the child is exposed to, she can pick up on a few different oral languages. Just curious what u think of a CI center denying children to get CIs simply because their families dont speak English?
 
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