CNN) – Conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck apologized Friday after appearing to mo

[kokonut]

Marxism as evil and :fruit: ?

So that means the chinese are evil and are fruits too. Anyone dare to say that in real life to them?

Boy are we totally biased here.
Might as well re-start the red scare and rampant Joseph McCarthyism just because, those pointless bashings.

China's dominant politics still incorporates Marxist principles. Zhedong used it to fuse the movement in PRC grassroots, Xiaoping renovated Mao's ideology with the "四项基本原则" (4 main guidelines) to incorporate a broader spectrum which has now became China today.

And China fuels our economy.

All I said was that Marxism -> :fruit:

I didn't say anything about a specfic country.

Calm down, dude.

Marxism = killed hundred of millions. Avoid it like the plague.

 

[TXgolfer]

if you actually research on it (other than google search), you will see that it's actually that complex because it breaks off into many branches. Conflict Theory was long ignored back in 50's but the American sociologists started to accept it and studied on it. Therein.... the policymakers took heed of Conflict Theory as the community grows. It's still on-going.

I know quite a bit about Conflict Theory actually..... I studied it in College..... I view it as simple But as I have said for pages....you are entitled to your opinion.

I also believe on it's own, Conflict Theory fails.....much like Broken Glass Fallacy in economics (btw Some economists compare obama's policies to Broken Glass Fallacy)

 

[AndyE9503]

I thought a Marxist society is one with no government whatsoever... everyone governs themselves.

I thought that was Anarchy.

 

[Jiro]

All I said was that Marxism -> :fruit:

I didn't say anything about a specfic country.

Calm down, dude.

Marxism = killed hundred of millions. Avoid it like the plague.

wondering....

Capitalism = killed how many?

 

[TXgolfer]

who is they?

Do you believe ALL sociologists/criminologists agree on the cause of the decrease in crime????

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

It's not Marxism that is the problem, it's people trying to IMPOSE their interpretation of Marxism on others.

 

[Jiro]

Do you believe ALL sociologists/criminologists agree on the decrease in crime????

You keep saying "they they they". I'm asking you - who is they?

 

[darkdog]

I thought a Marxist society is one with no government whatsoever... everyone governs themselves.

Yeah, me too. Funny how whenever Marxists try to implement their theory, they always turn into despots.

It's the corrupted few, not Marxism. Even here.

It's Marxism that gives so much power to the few and the unbridled nature of that power that makes them so corrupt. It's simple human nature and Marxism fails to account for it. We have corruption in our system also, but our founding fathers anticipated that and were very careful to construct a system that would mitigate the effects of that corruption. Their assumption was that corruption was an immutable part of human nature and government should be set up accordingly. In James Madison's words (from Federalist 51):

But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.

 

[TXgolfer]

You keep saying "they they they". I'm asking you - who is they?

Sociologists/criminoligists.......I am saying that they don't all agree. Do you believe that they do?

 

[Jiro]

Sociologists/criminoligists.......I am saying that they don't all agree. Do you believe that they do?

Why would I think they all agree? Silly notion!

Point is - it takes just 1 out of 100 to get it right. Hence - Kelling's theory works. Rest of them... who cares? They don't have real life result to prove. Kelling does. 4 cities - LA, NYC, Philly, and Boston. Detroit's slowly adopting it but they're still doing it wrong.

 

[naisho]

---

So what about the revolutionary and civil wars? Americans died getting the systems working. Got to look both ways before crossing.

Look at the principles of proprietorship from Marxism. Ala communist manifesto. Don't you think Marx's ideal society is meant to curb political corruption rather than forming them?

If were to be implemented honestly, why would Marxism not work in the ideal utopian environment?

Can't deny that McCarthyism shaped our politics to why even people of today still think any form of communism is evil without thinking it through for once. It all stemmed from american politics.

If anything, I feel the capitalistic society (such as ours) implements corruption and allows those who see the opportunity to seize the chance of benefit.

China's current edge on the power struggle - do you think they are truly reforming their society for the betterment of its country, or they are just doing it so they can topple the rest of the world?

Either direction they're heading, it still remains a fact they are one-up challengers regardless of how "corrupt" or "unreformed" their country is.

Don't take it personally, darkdog. Just implying constructive cricism at best. Even with the flaws in other governments, ours is as much to blame.

 

[Jiro]

I know quite a bit about Conflict Theory actually..... I studied it in College..... I view it as simple But as I have said for pages....you are entitled to your opinion.

I also believe on it's own, Conflict Theory fails.....much like Broken Glass Fallacy in economics (btw Some economists compare obama's policies to Broken Glass Fallacy)

hence.. a theory.. not a fact. Theory will always fail at some point.

btw - it's Broken Window Fallacy. I could agree with you that some of Obama's policies are the parable of Broken Window Fallacy but that's a change in topic when we were talking about crimes in societies. Broken Window Fallacy is for economic and Broken Window Theory is for sociology.

Conflict Theory covers all. In fact - what you did before is part of it too. If I recall correctly - you offered some jobs to some people (the one in worse shape). By doing so - you prevented the future crime where they may be forced to resort to stealing just to survive. Do you agree?

 

[TXgolfer]

Why would I think they all agree? Silly notion!

Point is - it takes just 1 out of 100 to get it right. Hence - Kelling's theory works. Rest of them... who cares? They don't have real life result to prove. Kelling does. 4 cities - LA, NYC, Philly, and Boston. Detroit's slowly adopting it but they're still doing it wrong.

Again that is your opinion....and you are entitled to it.

 

[TXgolfer]

Conflict Theory covers all. In fact - what you did before is part of it too. If I recall correctly - you offered some jobs to some people (the one in worse shape). By doing so - you prevented the future crime where they may be forced to resort to stealing just to survive. Do you agree?

Actually ....No, I don't. I had to fire many of those same workers for Theft of tools,theft of jobsite materials,theft from homeowners,using drugs on jobsite,dwi's in company vehicles,forged checks,over billing........crime continued.......just in a new location. Seems many, once they got "some", wanted "more" and committed more/larger crimes. However it did stop a few from committing crimes. Hence my view that while some concepts of conflict theory do work. Conflict Theory can not be relied on to correct problems without other approaches. To say Conflict theory or Kelling is responsible.......is just too simple IMO

 

[Beowulf]

Actually ....No, I don't. I had to fire many of those same workers for Theft of tools,theft of jobsite materials,theft from homeowners,using drugs on jobsite,dwi's in company vehicles,forged checks,over billing........crime continued.......just in a new location. Seems many, once they got "some", wanted "more" and committed more/larger crimes. However it did stop a few from committing crimes. Hence my view that while some concepts of conflict theory do work. Conflict Theory can not be relied on to correct problems without other approaches. To say Conflict theory or Kelling is responsible.......is just too simple IMO

Were they union workers?

 

[TXgolfer]

Were they union workers?

 

[AndyE9503]

So what about the revolutionary and civil wars? Americans died getting the systems working. Got to look both ways before crossing.

They died for freedom and to keep this country together. Not because some dictator decided they were useless, the wrong color or religion, or spoke against what the dictator decided was best. Big difference.

If were to be implemented honestly, why would Marxism not work in the ideal utopian environment?

Because it will never be implemented honestly. Maybe one peopson could do it right at the start but it would be right back to a repressive government fast. That being said, no utopia would ever work.

China's current edge on the power struggle - do you think they are truly reforming their society for the betterment of its country, or they are just doing it so they can topple the rest of the world?

They want to rule the world. They just realised that war will not bring it to them. So they turned to economics and treat their people like slaves to get all the money.

 

[Jiro]

Actually ....No, I don't. I had to fire many of those same workers for Theft of tools,theft of jobsite materials,theft from homeowners,using drugs on jobsite,dwi's in company vehicles,forged checks,over billing........crime continued.......just in a new location. Seems many, once they got "some", wanted "more" and committed more/larger crimes.

sorry to hear. such ungrateful brats... Your situation is unfortunately part of the Broken Window Fallacy.

However it did stop a few from committing crimes. Hence my view that while some concepts of conflict theory do work.

Yes - that's the specific part I was talking about.

Conflict Theory can not be relied on to correct problems without other approaches. To say Conflict theory or Kelling is responsible.......is just too simple IMO

Actually - Kelling's theory is not that simple. It's actually from years of research and the collaboration with some brightest minds.

Again - if you beg to differ, then feel free to introduce any other theories or opinions.

 

[darkdog]

So what about the revolutionary and civil wars? Americans died getting the systems working. Got to look both ways before crossing.

That was over slavery and states rights, not capitalism.

Look at the principles of proprietorship from Marxism. Ala communist manifesto. Don't you think Marx's ideal society is meant to curb political corruption rather than forming them?

Of course it's intended to bring about a better society, but it never works that way in practice. It's real world results, not intentions that matter.

If were to be implemented honestly, why would Marxism not work in the ideal utopian environment?

Because human nature doesn't work that way. Utopias are impossible. It cannot be implemented honestly. It concentrates too much power in too few hands. How many countries must Marxist utopian ideals destroy before the remaining marxists finally admit it's a dangerous ideology? It's always "well, if we just had the right people doing it, it would work." Never has worked, never will.

Can't deny that McCarthyism shaped our politics to why even people of today still think any form of communism is evil without thinking it through for once. It all stemmed from american politics.

People don't think communism is evil because of McCarthyism. People think communism is evil because communism is evil.

If anything, I feel the capitalistic society (such as ours) implements corruption and allows those who see the opportunity to seize the chance of benefit.

It's not perfect, and as one who rejects utopian thinking, I'll be the first to admit that, but it's far less imperfect than marxist societies. Just compare standards of living and human rights between capitalist countries and marxist countries. Would you rather be born in the United States or the Soviet Union? South Korea or North Korea? Hong Kong or mainland China?

China's current edge on the power struggle - do you think they are truly reforming their society for the betterment of its country, or they are just doing it so they can topple the rest of the world?

Either direction they're heading, it still remains a fact they are one-up challengers regardless of how "corrupt" or "unreformed" their country is.

They're only heading up inasmuch as they give up the Marxist garbage. It's because the government has turned a blind eye to private enterprise and allowed free trade that they're moving up. That's a vindication of capitalism.

Even with the flaws in other governments, ours is as much to blame.

I don't think so. We have our flaws, but we're a long way from the level of corruption and tyranny found in countries like Cuba, North Korea, Iran, China, Zimbabwe, etc.

 

[Jiro]

That was over slavery and states rights, not capitalism.


Of course it's intended to bring about a better society, but it never works that way in practice. It's real world results, not intentions that matter.


Because human nature doesn't work that way. Utopias are impossible. It cannot be implemented honestly. It concentrates too much power in too few hands. How many countries must Marxist utopian ideals destroy before the remaining marxists finally admit it's a dangerous ideology? It's always "well, if we just had the right people doing it, it would work." Never has worked, never will.


People don't think communism is evil because of McCarthyism. People think communism is evil because communism is evil.


It's not perfect, and as one who rejects utopian thinking, I'll be the first to admit that, but it's far less imperfect than marxist societies. Just compare standards of living and human rights between capitalist countries and marxist countries. Would you rather be born in the United States or the Soviet Union? South Korea or North Korea? Hong Kong or mainland China?


They're only heading up inasmuch as they give up the Marxist garbage. It's because the government has turned a blind eye to private enterprise and allowed free trade that they're moving up. That's a vindication of capitalism.


I don't think so. We have our flaws, but we're a long way from the level of corruption and tyranny found in countries like Cuba, North Korea, Iran, China, Zimbabwe, etc.

pst pst - Cuba is poor because of our embargo. Zimbabwe is poor because we kept them poor for cheap labor to manufacture our overpriced products. We make Iran and North Korea the "axis of evil" to keep our military industrial complex alive and profitable.

*sipping my extra large slurpee* ah... America.... fuck yea