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jillio said:
There you go. Actual application of the theory is what is important. And, in application, Kelling shows success.
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Did anything else contribute to the decline? Or was it simply Kelling?
 
TXgolfer said:
Did anything else contribute to the decline? Or was it simply Kelling?
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IF you know of anything other than the application of Kelling's Theory that was responsible, please list those variables here.
 
jillio said:
So, explain please, exactly how it is that you view conflict theory as simplistic. Of course, that will also require you to explain the theory in detail.
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Or I could say that is my view......and you are welcome to yours. As I have already. I assume, being educated, you considered other potential reasons (at least I would hope) before concluding that Conflict Theory is the reason for success. And you made your decision. Trying to convince you by reiterating what you have/should have already read seems a pointless exercise. If you are unaware of counter arguments try some research. That's what I did. As you said to me one time......it's not my job to do research for you. :)
 
TXgolfer said:
Or I could say that is my view......and you are welcome to yours. As I have already. I assume, being educated, you considered other potential reasons (at least I would hope) before concluding that Conflict Theory is the reason for success. And you made your decision. Trying to convince you by reiterating what you have/should have already read seems a pointless exercise. If you are unaware of counter arguments try some research. That's what I did. As you said to me one time......it's not my job to do research for you. :)
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Absolutely, one must consider other variables and the degree to which they may have influenced outcomes. However, this was not an experiment; it was an application of theory. That is something entirely different. In order to say Kelling's theory was not responsible, then one needs to explain the success from another theoretical perspective.

View...opinion...none of it matters unless you can cite a theory and use it to explain the success rate shown.
 
TXgolfer said:
Or I could say that is my view......and you are welcome to yours. As I have already. I assume, being educated, you considered other potential reasons (at least I would hope) before concluding that Conflict Theory is the reason for success. And you made your decision. Trying to convince you by reiterating what you have/should have already read seems a pointless exercise. If you are unaware of counter arguments try some research. That's what I did. As you said to me one time......it's not my job to do research for you. :)
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we're not asking you to do research for us. We're asking for any reference. names. anything at all. All I see is "they", "theory", "I disagree", etc.

Pretty dang vague.
 
Jiro said:
we're not asking you to do research for us. We're asking for any reference. names. anything at all. All I see is "they", "theory", "I disagree", etc.

Pretty dang vague.
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Exactly. He has stated that he understands the theories being discussed. All that is being asked is that he apply his understanding of theory to explain the success. Doesn't involve doing research of any kind.
 
TXgolfer said:
Or I could say that is my view......and you are welcome to yours. As I have already. I assume, being educated, you considered other potential reasons (at least I would hope) before concluding that Conflict Theory is the reason for success. And you made your decision. Trying to convince you by reiterating what you have/should have already read seems a pointless exercise. If you are unaware of counter arguments try some research. That's what I did. As you said to me one time......it's not my job to do research for you. :)
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LOL. Indeed. People should at least try and do that for themselves once awhile rather than ask others to do the research for them.

Meh. Such dishonesty abounds.
 
jillio said:
Hello Andy. I always admire one who is willing to learn.:wave:
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Well I'm unemployed and SSI doesn't give enough money to save and go play all the time. So my options are waste all the government cheese and become completely dependent on them. Or Read lots of books and look up things that I never cared to learn back in the party/booze/drug days, while saving so that I can go to school and learn a new trade and get back to making my own money again. And learning new things is more fun than surfing porn all day:laugh2:
 
kokonut said:
LOL. Indeed. People should at least try and do that for themselves once awhile rather than ask others to do the research for them.

Meh. Such dishonesty abounds.
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For someone who claims to have a background in research, it is odd indeed that you cannot distinguish the difference between research and applying theoretical knowledge.:cool2: Perhaps your claim to have a research background is where you are detecting the intellectual dishonesty.:cool2:
 
AndyE9503 said:
Well I'm unemployed and SSI doesn't give enough money to save and go play all the time. So my options are waste all the government cheese and become completely dependent on them. Or Read lots of books and look up things that I never cared to learn back in the party/booze/drug days, while saving so that I can go to school and learn a new trade and get back to making my own money again. And learning new things is more fun than surfing porn all day:laugh2:
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Yeah, I guess the porn would get repetitive after awhile! Still and all, you show initiative. That is to be admired.
 
jillio said:
IF you know of anything other than the application of Kelling's Theory that was responsible, please list those variables here.
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Are you saying you don't know????

Simple question.....was it Kelling? or was it a number of factors?

Or is it unclear.......An educated person would never base their opinion on a few results.

In 1996 my team played in 17 tournaments. I played in 12 of those. We won the 12 I played in but didn't win any that I missed. Did we win because of my play? Did we win because my presence helped chemistry? OR Did we win because the other teams were missing key players at the same time? Was it a combinations of all of these things?

-OR- is the answer unclear???

In the above example you have 17 results......

Sorry but arguing results of a theory as fact with limited samples and uncontrolled/unknown variables is ........fallacious
 
TXgolfer said:
Are you saying you don't know????

Simple question.....was it Kelling? or was it a number of factors?

Or is it unclear.......An educated person would never base their opinion on a few results.

In 1996 my team played in 17 tournaments. I played in 12 of those. We won the 12 I played in but didn't win any that I missed. Did we win because of my play? Did we win because my presence helped chemistry? OR Did we win because the other teams were missing key players at the same time? Was it a combinations of all of these things?

-OR- is the answer unclear???

In the above example you have 17 results......

Sorry but arguing results of a theory as fact with limited samples and uncontrolled/unknown variables is ........fallacious
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Not saying anything of the kind. However, it is pretty clear that you are hedging. Your example is fallicious. Has virtually nothing to do with theory application. In order to state that Kelling's Theory is not applicable to the success seen, you must attribute that success to another theory that explains the success.

Are you having trouble with the application?
 
Jiro said:
we're not asking you to do research for us. We're asking for any reference. names. anything at all. All I see is "they", "theory", "I disagree", etc.

Pretty dang vague.
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"They" is simple as explained before.

Sociologists/Criminologists disagree on what has led to the decline. Do you disagree with that statement?

"I disagree" simple again

I don't agree that Kelling's work is the sole reason for the decline.....said that many times too

"Theory" simple

There are many.....easy to find too. As I said before I don't believe in any particular theory. I think it is likely that a combination of efforts provided this result. And that the exact combination is unclear.
 
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