Change the future for a deaf child

[flip]

flip,

why do you feel the way you do about ci marketing?

I don't feel it, I know it

The post that started this thread for example, is filled with nonsense, but do we hear any protests from Advanced Bionics on the inaccuraties?

Marketing tricks are: Language delays if no CI(ASL does not exists). Claims of better CI's while they keep on lowering the age of implantation to make the child fullfill the promsises about hearing that CI was supposed to give with implants 20 years ago. Technically, listening skills up to par with hearing people, while in practice, the problems with discriminating sounds ruins the whole theory.

I could go on with the load of bollocks those companies pour out every day.

 

[Hear Again]

flip,

it's unfair to blame ci companies for making the claims they do (particularly the fact that ci's of the 1980s did not give the same level of hearing they do today -- what else can you expect from early technology?). after all, they are a business too.

by the way, i've NEVER heard any of the 3 ci companies claim that asl does not exist.

in fact, the manufacturer of my ci's (cochlear) encourages their volunteer advocates (of which i am one) to communicate in sign. when i attended my training session, everyone who knew sign communicated in asl and none of the cochlear reps said anything negative about it nor objected.

 

[flip]

flip,

it's unfair to blame ci companies for making the claims they do (particularly the fact that ci's of the 1980s did not give the same level of hearing they do today -- what else can you expect from early technology?). after all, they are a business too.

by the way, i've NEVER heard any of the 3 ci companies claim that asl does not exist.

in fact, the manufacturer of my ci's (cochlear) encourages their volunteer advocates (of which i am one) to communicate in sign. when i attended my training session, everyone who knew sign communicated in asl and none of the cochlear reps said anything negative about it nor objected.

Even if manufacturers are into the world of business and marketing, it does not mean they should be allowed to trick people?

Of course manufacturers won't recommend you to stop using ASL, you are adults. I am talking about implants in children. CI manufactureres rarely mentions the advantages of ASL. They talk about lack of early language if no CI is provided, check their homepages yourself. Research show us that early ASL is better than early speech, even for hearing children, for early language. What CI manufacturers are doing, is to push lower standards on deaf children, by demonstrating themselves as expert on language development, while ignoring ASL as a tool for early language.

After 2 sec at Bionic Ear, I found this:

“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”

Now their child can become a doctor, lawyer or star athlete, thanks to CI..? Most people here kan list up famous non-CI deaf doctors, lawyers and star athletes, even if it's few deaf people in the world. What kind of medical help is this to hearing parents from Bionic Ear?

As for how good CI was 20 years compared to today, I am not sure if I got your right. My point is that CI's are better today, but not as much as the companies claim. Manufactureres don't speak out loudly about the fact that their promises have changed. 20 years ago, CI was a plugn' play device. Put it in, and off you go as a hearing person. Later customers found this not was true, and manufacturers claimed children had to be implanted prior to 12 years old, then it was 6 years, then 2 years, not it's 1 year. Yet CI have failed to live up to their promises as a device that makes children hearing, an 20 year old promise that only is left in 12 month old babies. What next? Implanting while the baby in is the stomach of the mother?

 

[Hear Again]

Even if manufacturers are into the world of business and marketing, it does not mean they should be allowed to trick people?

Of course manufacturers won't recommend you to stop using ASL, you are adults. I am talking about implants in children. CI manufactureres rarely mentions the advantages of ASL. They talk about lack of early language if no CI is provided, check their homepages yourself. Research show us that early ASL is better than early speech, even for hearing children, for early language. What CI manufacturers are doing, is to push lower standards on deaf children, by demonstrating themselves as expert on language development, while ignoring ASL as a tool for early language.

After 2 sec at Bionic Ear, I found this:

“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”

Now their child can become a doctor, lawyer or star athlete, thanks to CI..? Most people here kan list up famous non-CI deaf doctors, lawyers and star athletes, even if it's few deaf people in the world. What kind of medical help is this to hearing parents from Bionic Ear?

As for how good CI was 20 years compared to today, I am not sure if I got your right. My point is that CI's are better today, but not as much as the companies claim. Manufactureres don't speak out loudly about the fact that their promises have changed. 20 years ago, CI was a plugn' play device. Put it in, and off you go as a hearing person. Later customers found this not was true, and manufacturers claimed children had to be implanted prior to 12 years old, then it was 6 years, then 2 years, not it's 1 year. Yet CI have failed to live up to their promises as a device that makes children hearing, an 20 year old promise that only is left in 12 month old babies. What next? Implanting while the baby in is the stomach of the mother?

given that the purpose of a ci is to allow one to hear, it makes perfect sense that ci companies do not promote asl.

as for the quote on the ab website, what you have to understand is how alot of parents of a deaf infant feel. to them, deafness *is* the end of the world (even though all of us here know better). you can't blame them for looking for an alternative to give their child hearing. besides, every parent has the right to make that decision based on what they feel is right for their child.

as for your example about implanting a baby while being in the mother's womb, you're just being ridiculous. :roll:

 

[flip]

given that the purpose of a ci is to allow one to hear, it makes perfect sense that ci companies do not promote asl.

as for the quote on the ab website, what you have to understand is how alot of parents of a deaf infant feel. to them, deafness *is* the end of the world (even though all of us here know better). you can't blame them for looking for an alternative to give their child hearing. besides, every parent has the right to make that decision based on what they feel is right for their child.

as for your example about implanting a baby while being in the mother's womb, you're just being ridiculous. :roll:

I know how a lot of parents feel about a deaf child. I have two parents myself

Most corporcations do anything to make another sale, you can't expect less. You probably think this is ok, even if some deaf people suffers from this practice, but I don't, and that we should do something to avoid this.

While you have right that every parents have the right to make that decision based on what they FEEL, it's inresponsible to let that happen when we know how wrong parents can be.

 

[shel90]

I know how a lot of parents feel about a deaf child. I have two parents myself

Most corporcations do anything to make another sale, you can't expect less. You probably think this is ok, even if some deaf people suffers from this practice, but I don't it's right, but that we should try to avoid this.

While you have right that every parents have the right to make that decision based on what they FEEL, it's inresponsible to let that happen when we know how wrong parents can be.

I feel the same too.

 

[shel90]

given that the purpose of a ci is to allow one to hear, it makes perfect sense that ci companies do not promote asl.

as for the quote on the ab website, what you have to understand is how alot of parents of a deaf infant feel. to them, deafness *is* the end of the world (even though all of us here know better). you can't blame them for looking for an alternative to give their child hearing. besides, every parent has the right to make that decision based on what they feel is right for their child.

as for your example about implanting a baby while being in the mother's womb, you're just being ridiculous. :roll:

The companies should not meddle when it comes to language development in children cuz they arent the ones who work with deaf children and probably dont know what's involved with language development. They should just stick with manufacturing the CI, nothing else.

 

[shel90]

Even if manufacturers are into the world of business and marketing, it does not mean they should be allowed to trick people?

Of course manufacturers won't recommend you to stop using ASL, you are adults. I am talking about implants in children. CI manufactureres rarely mentions the advantages of ASL. They talk about lack of early language if no CI is provided, check their homepages yourself. Research show us that early ASL is better than early speech, even for hearing children, for early language. What CI manufacturers are doing, is to push lower standards on deaf children, by demonstrating themselves as expert on language development, while ignoring ASL as a tool for early language.

After 2 sec at Bionic Ear, I found this:

“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”

Now their child can become a doctor, lawyer or star athlete, thanks to CI..? Most people here kan list up famous non-CI deaf doctors, lawyers and star athletes, even if it's few deaf people in the world. What kind of medical help is this to hearing parents from Bionic Ear?

As for how good CI was 20 years compared to today, I am not sure if I got your right. My point is that CI's are better today, but not as much as the companies claim. Manufactureres don't speak out loudly about the fact that their promises have changed. 20 years ago, CI was a plugn' play device. Put it in, and off you go as a hearing person. Later customers found this not was true, and manufacturers claimed children had to be implanted prior to 12 years old, then it was 6 years, then 2 years, not it's 1 year. Yet CI have failed to live up to their promises as a device that makes children hearing, an 20 year old promise that only is left in 12 month old babies. What next? Implanting while the baby in is the stomach of the mother?

*sighs* it is views like these that harm deaf people in general because people are going to believe that we are limited and not give us a chance.

 

[jillio]

*sighs* it is views like these that harm deaf people in general because people are going to believe that we are limited and not give us a chance.

I find that passage you bolded to be downright disgusting.

 

[Daredevel7]

Thanks for the explaination.

From what I have seen, members of the Deaf community are different when we talk about the degree they seek out activities with other deaf people. That's why I do not agree totally with your description. We got too many different ways to partipicate in the Deaf community, and you are doing this partly by your posts on AD, in my opinion. I can recommend the book about Deaf Hood, by Dr. Paddy Ladd. The lives and status quo of different deaf people, included your situation, is described in that book.

Bottom line, do you think by being in the core of the Deaf community, you're getting a good representative sample of oral deaf kids?

 

[jillio]

Bottom line, do you think by being in the core of the Deaf community, you're getting a good representative sample of oral deaf kids?

You'd be surprised how many oral deaf kids turn into Deaf adults.

 

[shel90]

Bottom line, do you think by being in the core of the Deaf community, you're getting a good representative sample of oral deaf kids?

I have met at least over a hundred fomer oral deaf kids in the deaf community. In my close circle of friends which is about 20 or so or 7 of us were raised orally.

 

[Daredevel7]

I find that passage you bolded to be downright disgusting.

"“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”"

It's quotes like that that made me NOT want to get a CI. I didn't want people to think I was "successful" because of the CI only. I worked hard to get to be where I am, and others are gonna think it's only because of the CI.

Obviously I got over it and decided not to care what others think. I focused on what I wanted.... simply to hear more.

You don't NEED a CI to be a doctor, lawyer, star athlete! I'm not any of them, but I think being an engineer isn't bad!

 

[jillio]

"“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”"

It's quotes like that that made me NOT want to get a CI. I didn't want people to think I was "successful" because of the CI only. I worked hard to get to be where I am, and others are gonna think it's only because of the CI.

Obviously I got over it and decided not to care what others think. I focused on what I wanted.... simply to hear more.

You don't NEED a CI to be a doctor, lawyer, star athlete! I'm not any of them, but I think being an engineer isn't bad!

Not bad at all.:P

I find it a shame that people can't see the disrespect they are directing not just toward their own child, but a whole community with statements like that.:roll:

 

[shel90]

"“It was hard for us to imagine Maya growing up with limitations,” says Diana. “Rich and I always assumed she would be the perfect child who would become a famous doctor or lawyer or star athlete. It was a rude awakening to discover Maya couldn’t hear. But now we had the chance to do something to correct that.”"

It's quotes like that that made me NOT want to get a CI. I didn't want people to think I was "successful" because of the CI only. I worked hard to get to be where I am, and others are gonna think it's only because of the CI.

Obviously I got over it and decided not to care what others think. I focused on what I wanted.... simply to hear more.

You don't NEED a CI to be a doctor, lawyer, star athlete! I'm not any of them, but I think being an engineer isn't bad!

We all know that but the general public who hold inaccurate views on deafness and deaf people are probably going to believe that especially employers. That means they are probably going choose deaf people with CIs over those without CIs.

One of my hubby's coworkers was shocked that I didnt want to get a CI and she said she thinks I do not want to improve myself. Doesnt matter that I have a MA degree, own a house, married with two wonderful kids, have a career, and etc...I am still "not good" enough in some people's eyes. I know I shouldnt care what she thinks but it made me wonder if the general public thinks that way about deaf people?

That's bad for the little kids because with those percieved ideas, giving children the visual support they need may diminish.

 

[Daredevel7]

You'd be surprised how many oral deaf kids turn into Deaf adults.

Yes, but don't you think it's because they were unhappy with their social life with the hearing kids since they can't catch up what's going on around them? This is my point, it seems to me that most oral deaf kids who end up "Deaf adults" are those who had a hard time being with hearing people even if they were "successful". Socially, they were just not happy (which I personally have seen in a family member). What I'm saying is, I don't think you're getting a lot of contact with people like me.

 

[Daredevel7]

We all know that but the general public who hold inaccurate views on deafness and deaf people are probably going to believe that especially employers. That means they are probably going choose deaf people with CIs over those without CIs.

One of my hubby's coworkers was shocked that I didnt want to get a CI and she said she thinks I do not want to improve myself. Doesnt matter that I have a MA degree, own a house, married with two wonderful kids, have a career, and etc...I am still "not good" enough in some people's eyes. I know I shouldnt care what she thinks but it made me wonder if the general public thinks that way about deaf people?

That's bad for the little kids because with those percieved ideas, giving children the visual support they need may diminish.

I got this so many times! "But you're doing so well! If you got the CI, you'd do even better!". So yea it seems like Im never good enough?! What the hell?

I usually respond with something like "You're wearing glasses, why don't you get laser surgery? Why don't people get plastic surgery? Their appearance is not good enough for me." or something like "So you want them to drill a hole in my skull and risk my life, so that I can what? I talk a little better? I hear the birds singing? Whooopie freakin doo."

Hilarious that I end up getting the CI.....

 

[shel90]

Yes, but don't you think it's because they were unhappy with their social life with the hearing kids since they can't catch up what's going on around them? This is my point, it seems to me that most oral deaf kids who end up "Deaf adults" are those who had a hard time being with hearing people even if they were "successful". Socially, they were just not happy (which I personally have seen in a family member). What I'm saying is, I don't think you're getting a lot of contact with people like me.

How do u know if you have never learned ASL or be involved with the Deaf community?

 

[shel90]

I got this so many times! "But you're doing so well! If you got the CI, you'd do even better!". So yea it seems like Im never good enough?! What the hell?

I usually respond with something like "You're wearing glasses, why don't you get laser surgery? Why don't people get plastic surgery? Their appearance is not good enough for me." or something like "So you want them to drill a hole in my skull and risk my life, so that I can what? I talk a little better? I hear the birds singing? Whooopie freakin doo."

Hilarious that I end up getting the CI.....

LOL! Good one..

 

[jillio]

Yes, but don't you think it's because they were unhappy with their social life with the hearing kids since they can't catch up what's going on around them? This is my point, it seems to me that most oral deaf kids who end up "Deaf adults" are those who had a hard time being with hearing people even if they were "successful". Socially, they were just not happy (which I personally have seen in a family member). What I'm saying is, I don't think you're getting a lot of contact with people like me.

Yeah, I think the socialization has a lot to do with it, and is a very important component to satisfaction with life. Socialization is also a very important part of the educational experience. Maybe the reason that we haven't seen a lot of people like you is because there aren't that many of you around. There are many more who thought they were satisfied with the oral only environment until they had something else to compare it to.