Change the future for a deaf child

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faire_jour said:
In my daughter's bi-bi school there is no hearing world. It is completely isolated, and they are not taught how to interact with hearing people who don't use ASL. How is that the "best of both"?
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Right now, with your daughter's age, the focus is establishing a strong first language and then later on, when they are older, then work on the 2nd language and the skills to interact with the hearing world. A child with no strong first language wouldnt be able to interact with the hearing world. Your daughter is only 5 years old..
 
faire_jour said:
In my daughter's bi-bi school there is no hearing world. It is completely isolated, and they are not taught how to interact with hearing people who don't use ASL. How is that the "best of both"?
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I get the feeling that you hate your daughter's school so why dont u just get it over with and pull her out from it? Sorry to be harsh but u have said that she is doing well with language development and academics thanks to her school but all I see is constant criticism of her school and her teachers.
 
shel90 said:
I am saying that it is old news that doctors and audiologists or speech therapists have been trying to make deaf people as much like hearing people as they can. It goes back 100 years. It is definitely old news.
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How is it old news? The research shows that a Deaf signer's brain are different from hearing people. Kids who are implanted before 12 months brain's develop like hearing kids. They are processing oral language through their ears and brain like hearing kids do. Non implanted kids don't, they do it visually, through lipreading.
 
shel90 said:
Right now, with your daughter's age, the focus is establishing a strong first language and then later on, when they are older, then work on the 2nd language and the skills to interact with the hearing world. A child with no strong first language wouldnt be able to interact with the hearing world. Your daughter is only 5 years old..
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I'm not talking about my daughter's class, I'm talking about the entire school.
 
shel90 said:
I get the feeling that you hate your daughter's school so why dont u just get it over with and pull her out from it? Sorry to be harsh but u have said that she is doing well with language development and academics thanks to her school but all I see is constant criticism of her school and her teachers.
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I love her school. Just because I have critism, don't mean I hate it, or want to pull her out.
 
faire_jour said:
I love her school. Just because I have critism, don't mean I hate it, or want to pull her out.
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It sure does look like it and with your thread about the IEP, u mentioned about pulling her out so that the impression I got.
 
faire_jour said:
How is it old news? The research shows that a Deaf signer's brain are different from hearing people. Kids who are implanted before 12 months brain's develop like hearing kids. They are processing oral language through their ears and brain like hearing kids do. Non implanted kids don't, they do it visually, through lipreading.
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The invention of all these devices to make deaf children like hearing is old news since AGBell...that is what I mean.
 
flip said:
I know of deaf people that went to deaf schools with TC, and now are living in the hearing world all the time. Others choose to hang out with signers most of the time, while others partipicate in both worlds. Not sure what you mean with "grouped togheter"?

But you are right, by the fifties, almost all of the oral deaf people I know says that sign language is a good thing from early on, so know very very few "successful" oral deaf people. Perhaps they shun other deaf people?
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Grouped together... as in I personally am friends with no more than 3-4 deaf people (through same speech therapist) and know no more than 20 deaf people throughout my life. Those people come in from all directions. I would say this is the typical life of a oral deaf person who does not seek the need to be with other deaf people. I don't shun them but I don't seek them either. A person in the Deaf community, they would have MUCH MUCH higher numbers than mine because they tend to be friends with other deaf people or seek out activities with other deaf people. After all, isnt that what a "community" is? I simply am not part of the deaf community just because I went to mainstream schools and never did deaf activities (other than going to deaf conferences once in a while). Im guessing a lot of oral deaf kids do this also.
 
Jiro said:
groan_smilie.gif

you are wrong on so many levels.....
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(very confused)
 
shel90 said:
In the oralists' eyes...as long as some deaf kids are "successful" it is ok that many others suffer. That is why I have a huge distrust of oralists who disregard ASL or see ASL as a "last" resort. I truly believe that they really do not have deaf people's interest on their agenda but their own.
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I agree
 
flip said:
I totally agree with you. Oralism puts a lot of burden on deaf people. Removing that burden would raise her changes of survival greatly.

Another thing is that this oral deaf girl could seek support in a signing community, and get a social network, if she knew BSL. Instead she was left out in the dark, belonging nowhere.

So much for the fear of depedency on sign language, and the myth that oral only environments gives better speech and listening skills than a signing environment.
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Yes, that is very true.

I know so many deaf and deafblind who are victims of the oral only aproach. I was brought up using oral only. I wish such an approach died out, but unfortunely due to the CI It's making a come back. That's my main problem with CI for deaf children.
 
shel90 said:
:gpost:

I grew up with that heavy burden and for what? It sure didnt do me any s***.
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And, as you have been good enough to share many times, did create additional problems for you.
 
dreama said:
(very confused)
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omg! i just went back and re-read the post. I misread your post. my deep apology! Ignore my reply and see below for my correct response to your post-

:gpost:
 
naisho said:
I can reiterate. I am oral only, I don't know any ASL or BSL and other forms of non-verbal communication, if you want to exclude traffic signals (joke).

I don't have a problem being Oral only, as I know my own experiences through mainstream school were for the most part, bearable. If anything, I am only slightly annoyed that I didn't get too extremely social, because of knowing myself that it would take more effort for a person like me to withstand what a non-hearing impaired person could do with more ease.

Then again, in 20 years from now should I lose all my remaining hearing then I'll be forced to learn new methods to communicate, and by that time it'll be where others that may say "I told you so" (in regards to learning ASL) will want point it out.

But do know sometimes, some people are perfectly content with that or choose to want to remain that way. Especially at an older age. The only thing is, when they choose this path they can't look back or else they're contradicting themselves.
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Good post.

I think one reason that some oral deafs don't pick up sign language, is it's too much hassle getting involved with the deaf culture, with the rejection, ignoring and hostility from some deaf people with low self esteem. Some of the oral deaf people also share the negativity towards sign language as the hearing culture do. Both groups needs information to overcome this, IMHO.

If deaf adults decided what education and exposure to language deaf children should get, I belive we could avoid all of this. Instead too many paternalistic hearing people defends different labels, like TC, CS, TC, Oral, BI-BI, used at different schools, splitting up deaf people. It's surprising how much deaf people, oral, mainstream, TC or bi-bi, agree on what they want to learn in the classroom.
 
dreama said:
Yes, that is very true.

I know so many deaf and deafblind who are victims of the oral only aproach. I was brought up using oral only. I wish such an approach died out, but unfortunely due to the CI It's making a come back. That's my main problem with CI for deaf children.
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That's the issue I have with CI, too. A lot of the CI marketing is a load of bollocks. Combined with long time "experts" that do not have any single deaf adult friend and fear of sign language and isolation of deaf people, it does more bad than good.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Grouped together... as in I personally am friends with no more than 3-4 deaf people (through same speech therapist) and know no more than 20 deaf people throughout my life. Those people come in from all directions. I would say this is the typical life of a oral deaf person who does not seek the need to be with other deaf people. I don't shun them but I don't seek them either. A person in the Deaf community, they would have MUCH MUCH higher numbers than mine because they tend to be friends with other deaf people or seek out activities with other deaf people. After all, isnt that what a "community" is? I simply am not part of the deaf community just because I went to mainstream schools and never did deaf activities (other than going to deaf conferences once in a while). Im guessing a lot of oral deaf kids do this also.
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Thanks for the explaination.

From what I have seen, members of the Deaf community are different when we talk about the degree they seek out activities with other deaf people. That's why I do not agree totally with your description. We got too many different ways to partipicate in the Deaf community, and you are doing this partly by your posts on AD, in my opinion. I can recommend the book about Deaf Hood, by Dr. Paddy Ladd. The lives and status quo of different deaf people, included your situation, is described in that book.
 
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