Change the future for a deaf child

[Daredevel7]

Many people who are part of Deaf community were mainstreamed just like those who went to Deaf schools. I have met so many deaf people from different backgrounds in the Deaf community, not just those from deaf schools or deaf colleges. I noticed that more and more members in the community are people from other countries.

Do you meet a lot of deaf people part of the Deaf community who were mainstreamed and HAPPY ABOUT IT?

 

[shel90]

Do you meet a lot of deaf people part of the Deaf community who were mainstreamed and HAPPY ABOUT IT?

I havent discussed about whether one is happy about being mainstreamed with every one of them. Most of the time, when I go to deaf gatherings or events, I dont think about the past..just enjoy the day so that subject is rarely brought up.


One of my close friends who has experienced both said she didnt mind both because she knew that she had her friends from the deaf community to go to after school was done. I found that interesting.

Most of my close friends who were mainstreamed and oral only have all said that they wished they knew ASL and about the Deaf community growing up.

 

[Daredevel7]

You seem to be having a little trouble being integrated into the collective!:scratch:

Personally, I came to AD because I wanted more information about the CI. I got really into AD after reading a couple of forums. Can anyone blame me for stickin around?

All I am saying is I doubt the mainstreamed oral deaf kids hang out with other deaf kids because if they were perfectly fine with being mainstreamed why seek out the NEED to be with other deaf people? I don't feel the need to be with other deaf people. I have met others, but here is the funny part: MY vision is skewed because most of the oral deaf people I meet were perfectly fine with how they were raised and they were very successful with it (and I mean MORE than just speaking well). I'm not letting it get to me though, and am open to the idea that oralism does not work for a lot of deaf kids. I am just saying that it's possible that people's perspectives are skewed because of the environment they are in.

 

[naisho]

I just wanted to bluntly point out: if they're [oral mainstream] happy with what they experienced, why bother to push the controversy further?

Each person's experience is truly anecdotal pertaining for themselves and shouldn't be immediately considered a role model or chose a wrong path to start on.

 

[flip]

Gosh! You captured my life so perfectly... my life in oralism was absolutely miserable.... :roll:

I understand that a lot of deaf people had a hard time in mainstream schools, but what a lot of Deaf people dont understand is that being in an ASL focused world, they will RARELY meet deaf people who did fine in oralism. They are randomly infilterated into society, not grouped together, unlike those who are ASL based who tend to go to deaf schools, deaf colleges, or hang out with other deaf people. So there's a VERY skewed perspective here.

I know of deaf people that went to deaf schools with TC, and now are living in the hearing world all the time. Others choose to hang out with signers most of the time, while others partipicate in both worlds. Not sure what you mean with "grouped togheter"?

But you are right, by the fifties, almost all of the oral deaf people I know says that sign language is a good thing from early on, so know very very few "successful" oral deaf people. Perhaps they shun other deaf people?

 

[shel90]

Personally, I came to AD because I wanted more information about the CI. I got really into AD after reading a couple of forums. Can anyone blame me for stickin around?

All I am saying is I doubt the mainstreamed oral deaf kids hang out with other deaf kids because if they were perfectly fine with being mainstreamed why seek out the NEED to be with other deaf people? I don't feel the need to be with other deaf people. I have met others, but here is the funny part: MY vision is skewed because most of the oral deaf people I meet were perfectly fine with how they were raised and they were very successful with it (and I mean MORE than just speaking well). I'm not letting it get to me though, and am open to the idea that oralism does not work for a lot of deaf kids. I am just saying that it's possible that people's perspectives are skewed because of the environment they are in.

Before I learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community, if anyone had asked me if I was happy being raised orally, I would have said yes and that I didnt need to meet other deaf people. When I learned ASL and for the first time in my life, experienced to have full access to communication without any barriers, I realized how limiting my environment was to me growing up and that was when I became angry. Then, I became involved in the field of Deaf education and meeting so many children with language delays because they were denied a full acess to language, my view that I hold now was born.

 

[flip]

Personally, I came to AD because I wanted more information about the CI. I got really into AD after reading a couple of forums. Can anyone blame me for stickin around?

All I am saying is I doubt the mainstreamed oral deaf kids hang out with other deaf kids because if they were perfectly fine with being mainstreamed why seek out the NEED to be with other deaf people? I don't feel the need to be with other deaf people. I have met others, but here is the funny part: MY vision is skewed because most of the oral deaf people I meet were perfectly fine with how they were raised and they were very successful with it (and I mean MORE than just speaking well). I'm not letting it get to me though, and am open to the idea that oralism does not work for a lot of deaf kids. I am just saying that it's possible that people's perspectives are skewed because of the environment they are in.

How old are those oral deaf people? I ask because I have this feeling from observations that the success rate of deaf oral people drop with age.

 

[Daredevel7]

I just wanted to bluntly point out: if they're [oral mainstream] happy with what they experienced, why bother to push the controversy further?

Each person's experience is truly anecdotal pertaining for themselves and shouldn't be immediately considered a role model or chose a wrong path to start on.

Im not trying to push oralism or anything. Just pointing out why it may "seem" that a lot of deaf kids who were in oralism are miserable.

 

[shel90]

Im not trying to push oralism or anything. Just pointing out why it may "seem" that a lot of deaf kids who were in oralism are miserable.

Many of my friends who grew up orally said that their views on oral-only changed when they learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community. When one grows up without knowing about something different or experiencing it, the world around them is all they know. That's why children who travel or get exposed to different cultures grow up with more knowledge than those who werent.

I used to look down on signing deaf people cuz I was brainwashed into thinking sign language was for deaf people of lower intelligence...how wrong I was!

 

[Daredevel7]

How old are those oral deaf people? I ask because I have this feeling from observations that the success rate of deaf oral people drop with age.

Since most of them were from my generation (we had the same speech therapist), so now, between 20-30 years old.

So Shel and flip.. are you saying that later on in the future, I'm gonna have a revelation and realize "oh my god! My life would be SO much better if I learned ASL first!"

Reminder: not against teaching deaf kids ASL at all, the only thing I'm against is not teaching them other ways to communicate. Saddens me when deaf people aren't confident communicating to the hearing world. I personally think that is worse than language delays (although the two can be connected). They would just rather stay at home, talk to people online, and collect SSI.

 

[shel90]

Since most of them were from my generation (we had the same speech therapist), so now, between 20-30 years old.

So Shel and flip.. are you saying that later on in the future, I'm gonna have a revelation and realize "oh my god! My life would be SO much better if I learned ASL first!"

Reminder: not against teaching deaf kids ASL at all, the only thing I'm against is not teaching them other ways to communicate. Saddens me when deaf people aren't confident communicating to the hearing world. I personally think that is worse than language delays (although the two can be connected). They would just rather stay at home, talk to people online, and collect SSI.

I still talk to the hearing world but I dont feel as isolated as before or as frustrated cuz I know that I have my signing friends or the signing community to go to.

Not saying anything about you in your future. Just sharing what I have experienced and what others have shared with me.

I HAVE NEVER been against teaching deaf children oral skills...I am against that being the ONLY and SUPERIOR way to teach deaf children. I believe in giving all deaf cchildren BOTH worlds.

My brother who grew up with ASL and at a Deaf school who has no oral skills have much more confidence than I do with interacting with hearing people. It was cuz he never had to deal with the constant criticism from hearing people growing up like I do.

If these F***cking hearing people told me that being deaf was ok instead of expecting me to constantly meet their hearing needs all the time and criticized me when I couldnt, maybe I would have had more confidence in interacting with hearing people than I do.

 

[Bottesini]

Personally, I came to AD because I wanted more information about the CI. I got really into AD after reading a couple of forums. Can anyone blame me for stickin around?

All I am saying is I doubt the mainstreamed oral deaf kids hang out with other deaf kids because if they were perfectly fine with being mainstreamed why seek out the NEED to be with other deaf people? I don't feel the need to be with other deaf people. I have met others, but here is the funny part: MY vision is skewed because most of the oral deaf people I meet were perfectly fine with how they were raised and they were very successful with it (and I mean MORE than just speaking well). I'm not letting it get to me though, and am open to the idea that oralism does not work for a lot of deaf kids. I am just saying that it's possible that people's perspectives are skewed because of the environment they are in.

I don't blame you at all. You do seem attracted to this world even though you are a strong oral proponent.

I will keep an open mind and see what happens.

 

[Daredevel7]

Maybe I'm wrong, but personally, I think I'd do better oral-only than BiBi. I'm only stating this because apparently I am the only one who thinks this. Maybe my views will change later, but that's just my opinion for now. I truly believe that being in oral only caused me to speak better and have a lot of practice lipreading others at such an early stage. I admit that I had an innate ability to lipread and I would say this is the BIGGEST factor in why I did well. I would say a lot of people (deaf or otherwise) do not have this ability. Not to mention that by being able to be mainstreamed, I had a much wider choice of schools to be in. I am speaking only for myself.

 

[Daredevel7]

Also, Id like to add to the above post. I believe in the BiBi APPROACH, I am just not so sure about the BiBi long term results. I think its a bit of naive thinking to say
"Best of both worlds". I don't quite think it absorbs the "best" of the hearing world.

 

[shel90]

Maybe I'm wrong, but personally, I think I'd do better oral-only than BiBi. I'm only stating this because apparently I am the only one who thinks this. Maybe my views will change later, but that's just my opinion for now. I truly believe that being in oral only caused me to speak better and have a lot of practice lipreading others at such an early stage. I admit that I had an innate ability to lipread and I would say this is the BIGGEST factor in why I did well. I would say a lot of people (deaf or otherwise) do not have this ability. Not to mention that by being able to be mainstreamed, I had a much wider choice of schools to be in. I am speaking only for myself.

For myself..15 years ago, I would probably have said the same thing as u just stated.

I guess I am the kind of person who believes that I and other deaf people have just as much right to equal access to communication as any of our hearing counterparts did or do.

Many deaf people who grew up in deaf schools do have just as much opportunities as we do. Many people think that they dont but they do.

 

[shel90]

Also, Id like to add to the above post. I believe in the BiBi APPROACH, I am just not so sure about the BiBi long term results. I think its a bit of naive thinking to say
"Best of both worlds". I don't quite think it absorbs the "best" of the hearing world.

Even being oral-only, I didnt get the best of the hearing world anyway but at least with the BiBi approach, deaf kids experience both worlds rather than than one or the other.

 

[faire_jour]

Thank you...it seems like with today's thinking, without the CI, deaf people will never learn spoken language..

this is just old news with each generation of deaf kids...

According to my AVT therapist (who has been in the field for 20+ years and she is actually an advocate for sign with deaf kids), before CI's only about 10% of profoundly deaf children could communicate using only oral language, the other 90% needed visual support. Today, it is 90% that can communicate using oral language and 10% need support.
The technology IS different, it IS better, and the results are better.

 

[naisho]

I can reiterate. I am oral only, I don't know any ASL or BSL and other forms of non-verbal communication, if you want to exclude traffic signals (joke).

I don't have a problem being Oral only, as I know my own experiences through mainstream school were for the most part, bearable. If anything, I am only slightly annoyed that I didn't get too extremely social, because of knowing myself that it would take more effort for a person like me to withstand what a non-hearing impaired person could do with more ease.

Then again, in 20 years from now should I lose all my remaining hearing then I'll be forced to learn new methods to communicate, and by that time it'll be where others that may say "I told you so" (in regards to learning ASL) will want point it out.

But do know sometimes, some people are perfectly content with that or choose to want to remain that way. Especially at an older age. The only thing is, when they choose this path they can't look back or else they're contradicting themselves.

 

[faire_jour]

Even being oral-only, I didnt get the best of the hearing world anyway but at least with the BiBi approach, deaf kids experience both worlds rather than than one or the other.

In my daughter's bi-bi school there is no hearing world. It is completely isolated, and they are not taught how to interact with hearing people who don't use ASL. How is that the "best of both"?

 

[shel90]

According to my AVT therapist (who has been in the field for 20+ years and she is actually an advocate for sign with deaf kids), before CI's only about 10% of profoundly deaf children could communicate using only oral language, the other 90% needed visual support. Today, it is 90% that can communicate using oral language and 10% need support.
The technology IS different, it IS better, and the results are better.

I am saying that it is old news that doctors and audiologists or speech therapists have been trying to make deaf people as much like hearing people as they can. It goes back 100 years. It is definitely old news.