Change the future for a deaf child

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jillio said:
And where exactly did you hear all of this?
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The parents of CI children that I know. One of my very good friend's son started signing (she continues to sign, but he refuses) is mainstream with zero services and doesn't lipread at all.
 
jillio said:
dB and Hz ranges are not the issue. Discrimination is. Just because one can hear a sound in the "normal range" doesn't mean they can discriminate that sound.
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And her speech discrimination is better than it ever was when she had a 60 db loss. The CI signal is clear whereas the hearing aid wasn't.
 
faire_jour said:
The parents of CI children that I know. One of my very good friend's son started signing (she continues to sign, but he refuses) is mainstream with zero services and doesn't lipread at all.
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Ah, second hand inforamtion. You are aware that when these children are checked, what the test results show are, in the vast majority of circumstances, quite different from what the parents believe to be the case? And that the gap widens with age.
 
faire_jour said:
And her speech discrimination is better than it ever was when she had a 60 db loss. The CI signal is clear whereas the hearing aid wasn't.
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The question is, is she discriminating in the "normal range".
 
jillio said:
Ah, second hand inforamtion. You are aware that when these children are checked, what the test results show are, in the vast majority of circumstances, quite different from what the parents believe to be the case? And that the gap widens with age.
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But hope springs eternal.......
 
jillio said:
faire_jour said:
I agree that that does happen, and has happened.

But I don't think it must continue to happen.[/QUOTE]

Then what would be your solution to prevent it happening? For all children.
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Those who want to pursue oral only need to be early identified, early implanted, given proper support and services within weeks of identification. They need to be constantly followed by parents and professionals who understand both whole language development and value the child as a person, not just ears and mouth. If the child falls behind, they immediatly begin to supplement with a visual component, perhaps starting by adding lipreading and cued speech or ASL if so desired.
I don't think every child will be able to have the above, so that is why there should be many options for deaf kids.
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jillio said:
Ah, second hand inforamtion. You are aware that when these children are checked, what the test results show are, in the vast majority of circumstances, quite different from what the parents believe to be the case? And that the gap widens with age.
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Actually, that is what *I* have observed, not what has been "reported".
 
jillio said:
The question is, is she discriminating in the "normal range".
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Not yet, but it has only been 2 months. I believe that she will.

Advanced Bionics has something called the "Listening Ladder" (http://www.hearingjourney.com/Listening_Room/Kids/Listening_Ladder/index.cfm?langid=1) that is all about auditory dicrimination. It has 10 levels, Miss Kat is on level 4 right now. The last level is discriminating between words like "bake" "bait" "back" "bat", again, with no lipreading at all.
 
faire_jour said:
jillio said:
Those who want to pursue oral only need to be early identified, early implanted, given proper support and services within weeks of identification. They need to be constantly followed by parents and professionals who understand both whole language development and value the child as a person, not just ears and mouth. If the child falls behind, they immediatly begin to supplement with a visual component, perhaps starting by adding lipreading and cued speech or ASL if so desired.
I don't think every child will be able to have the above, so that is why there should be many options for deaf kids.
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Hmmmm:hmm: Hasn't worked to date. What makes you think it will work in the future?
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faire_jour said:
Not yet, but it has only been 2 months. I believe that she will.

Advanced Bionics has something called the "Listening Ladder" (http://www.hearingjourney.com/Listening_Room/Kids/Listening_Ladder/index.cfm?langid=1) that is all about auditory dicrimination. It has 10 levels, Miss Kat is on level 4 right now. The last level is discriminating between words like "bake" "bait" "back" "bat", again, with no lipreading at all.
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As Bott said earlier, "hope springs eternal."
 
faire_jour said:
jillio said:
When in the past have kids been id'd at birth and given the kind of aggressive therapy they are receiving today? When was the kind of audiological results that CI's produce availible for the deaf?
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Well, lets see....infant screening has been going on for over 20 years. My own son was red flagged at birth and diagnosed at age 3 months. CI has also been around for over 20 years. And throughout history, there has always been some new devise to give "normal hearing" to the deaf.
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faire_jour said:
How do you deny all the kids who can??
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unfortunately... those who can't greatly outnumbered those who can.... See your post #461 - You admitted that "many deaf and children people suffered from the oral-only approach."
 
faire_jour said:
How do you deny all the kids who can??
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I don't deny the ones that can, and have no idea where you are getting that. I have just never met a CI user, and I have met many, that can discriminate normally in all situations and conditions with hearing alone.
 
Jiro said:
unfortunately... those who can't greatly outnumbered those who can.... See your post #461 - You admitted that "many deaf and children people suffered from the oral-only approach."
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I agree that it is not for all deaf kids, not even for most.
 
jillio said:
I don't deny the ones that can, and have no idea where you are getting that. I have just never met a CI user, and I have met many, that can discriminate normally in all situations and conditions with hearing alone.
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But have you met ones who can well enough to aquire spoken language? Use and understand speech sufficent for their needs?
 
Jiro said:
unfortunately... those who can't greatly outnumbered those who can.... See your post #461 - You admitted that "many deaf and children people suffered from the oral-only approach."
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It would seem that no one "suffers" from an ASL approach compared to the oral only approach, correct? I think this is misleading. It's just more obvious that people suffer from the oral only approach because you're starting from high expectations, rather than low expectations. I'm not saying that ASL has low standards but it is definitely easier for deaf people to learn language through asl than orally. So I don't think its fair to say that people suffer from oral only approach and not ASL based approach because the truth is you only can see the suffering when someone fails to meet expectations. You cannot deny that there is a possibility that a ASL taught person may become more independent and confident in the hearing world if he was raised orally in an alternative universe. Honestly, when people tell me "Oh if he is so smart, then he will become confident in the hearing world ANYWAY. Being surrounded by ASL will NOT hinder it!". Sorry, I think that is bull because that's like saying "Well, if he's so smart, why don't you send him to any public school, he will do fine anyway." You'd have to be REALLY REALLY intelligent and mature as a child in order to take on obstacles yourself. We all know that as children, we do need a push. This is where the problem of oral only arises, the suffering is evident when the parents push too much.

Anyway, I rambled on there for a bit. Just saying that I don't think it's fair to say that ASL based approach doesn't have "suffering" because you just can't see it.
 
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