Change the future for a deaf child

[faire_jour]

Well, lets see....infant screening has been going on for over 20 years. My own son was red flagged at birth and diagnosed at age 3 months. CI has also been around for over 20 years. And throughout history, there has always been some new devise to give "normal hearing" to the deaf.

But technology is getting better everyday. The devices we have today are lightyears ahead of those from 20 years ago, and 20 years from now they will be even better. I'm saying that kids today have a better chance for learning spoken language then those 20 years ago, and those born in 5 years will do even better than those born today.

 

[jillio]

But have you met ones who can well enough to aquire spoken language? Use and understand speech sufficent for their needs?

I have met those that are able to learn spoken language, and use and understand speech without additional cues in some select situations. However, one needs to keep in mind, that even on a one to one situation, the individual is often observing visual cues they are not even aware of for understanding. Hearing people do it too.

 

[jillio]

But technology is getting better everyday. The devices we have today are lightyears ahead of those from 20 years ago, and 20 years from now they will be even better. I'm saying that kids today have a better chance for learning spoken language then those 20 years ago, and those born in 5 years will do even better than those born today.

Dang! Someone should have told my kid that! He learned to use spoken language, and didn't even realize what a disadvantage he had because he didn't have a CI.

 

[faire_jour]

Dang! Someone should have told my kid that! He learned to use spoken language, and didn't even realize what a disadvantage he had because he didn't have a CI.

Yes, the ability to hear clear sound does it make it easier to learn to understand spoken language and then to speak.

 

[jillio]

Yes, the ability to hear clear sound does it make it easier to learn to understand spoken language and then to speak.

Then it would appear that my son, and Shel, and all the others that managed to learn and use spoken language with a severe to profound loss and very little discrimination in the speech frequencies and no CI have accomplished the impossible.

 

[Jiro]

Dang! Someone should have told my kid that! He learned to use spoken language, and didn't even realize what a disadvantage he had because he didn't have a CI.

ouch. that's gonna sting for a while.

 

[faire_jour]

Then it would appear that my son, and Shel, and all the others that managed to learn and use spoken language with a severe to profound loss and very little discrimination in the speech frequencies and no CI have accomplished the impossible.

Where si I say impossible? (Looks around, searching) And I do believe those people said it was extremely difficult, thus backing up my point. It's difficult for those who can't hear, easy for hearing kids....

 

[jillio]

Where si I say impossible? (Looks around, searching) And I do believe those people said it was extremely difficult, thus backing up my point. It's difficult for those who can't hear, easy for hearing kids....

Right, and it is difficult for CI kids, as well. Otherwise, they would not need all the follow up therapy they do to achieve it.

 

[shel90]

It would seem that no one "suffers" from an ASL approach compared to the oral only approach, correct? I think this is misleading. It's just more obvious that people suffer from the oral only approach because you're starting from high expectations, rather than low expectations. I'm not saying that ASL has low standards but it is definitely easier for deaf people to learn language through asl than orally. So I don't think its fair to say that people suffer from oral only approach and not ASL based approach because the truth is you only can see the suffering when someone fails to meet expectations. You cannot deny that there is a possibility that a ASL taught person may become more independent and confident in the hearing world if he was raised orally in an alternative universe. Honestly, when people tell me "Oh if he is so smart, then he will become confident in the hearing world ANYWAY. Being surrounded by ASL will NOT hinder it!". Sorry, I think that is bull because that's like saying "Well, if he's so smart, why don't you send him to any public school, he will do fine anyway." You'd have to be REALLY REALLY intelligent and mature as a child in order to take on obstacles yourself. We all know that as children, we do need a push. This is where the problem of oral only arises, the suffering is evident when the parents push too much.

Anyway, I rambled on there for a bit. Just saying that I don't think it's fair to say that ASL based approach doesn't have "suffering" because you just can't see it.

That would be like saying hearing kids suffered from spoken English.

 

[shel90]

Then it would appear that my son, and Shel, and all the others that managed to learn and use spoken language with a severe to profound loss and very little discrimination in the speech frequencies and no CI have accomplished the impossible.

Thank you...it seems like with today's thinking, without the CI, deaf people will never learn spoken language..

this is just old news with each generation of deaf kids...

 

[shel90]

unfortunately... those who can't greatly outnumbered those who can.... See your post #461 - You admitted that "many deaf and children people suffered from the oral-only approach."

In the oralists' eyes...as long as some deaf kids are "successful" it is ok that many others suffer. That is why I have a huge distrust of oralists who disregard ASL or see ASL as a "last" resort. I truly believe that they really do not have deaf people's interest on their agenda but their own.

 

[flip]

Simple: someone who can manage to deciper lipreading and faulty sounds and make any sort of sense out of them to became an 'oral success' would naturally do even BETTER if they were exposed to a proper education which focused on their strongest sense that is sight instead of their weakest one.

I totally agree with you. Oralism puts a lot of burden on deaf people. Removing that burden would raise her changes of survival greatly.

Another thing is that this oral deaf girl could seek support in a signing community, and get a social network, if she knew BSL. Instead she was left out in the dark, belonging nowhere.

So much for the fear of depedency on sign language, and the myth that oral only environments gives better speech and listening skills than a signing environment.

 

[shel90]

I totally agree with you. Oralism puts a lot of burden on deaf people. Removing that burden would raise her changes of survival greatly.

Another thing is that this oral deaf girl could seek support in a signing community, and get a social network, if she knew BSL. Instead she was left out in the dark, belonging nowhere.

So much for the fear of depedency on sign language, and the myth that oral only environments gives better speech and listening skills than a signing environment.

I grew up with that heavy burden and for what? It sure didnt do me any s***.

 

[flip]

I grew up with that heavy burden and for what? It sure didnt do me any s***.

I managed to stay out of oral schools, and had to be stubborn to avoid beeing put into one. The lack of sign language there and the funny behavior of the deaf students scared me. Can't say I really understand the impact of oralism, as I never experienced it first hand, but I have talked to enough deaf people and read stories from deaf like you to realize it's something that it's not worth to fight for at all. Thanks for standing up and reminding us about how much totally waste of time oralism is!

Ok, don't know if many deaf people like this analogy, but deaf people put into oral schools gives me a picture of a gay person forced to live with a woman for 15 years. Horrible

 

[Daredevel7]

That would be like saying hearing kids suffered from spoken English.

I think a better analogy would be hearing kids suffered from spoken Spanish in United States.

 

[shel90]

I think a better analogy would be hearing kids suffered from spoken Spanish in United States.

No...because they acquire a strong first language from Spanish helping them to be able to acquire a 2nd language. My ex husband's family is a perfect example of that...they all didnt know English when they started school here in the US but picked up English within a year or so thanks to having established a strong first language.

With deaf children...spoken language is not fully accessible to them in the spoken form due to their inability to hear and discriminate words like heairng kids can so as a result, they dont establish a strong first language. That's the idea behind the BiBi approach...have all deaf children establish a strong first language in ASL or any other sign language and then acquire the 2nd language which is English, here in the USA.

 

[Daredevel7]

I managed to stay out of oral schools, and had to be stubborn to avoid beeing put into one. The lack of sign language there and the funny behavior of the deaf students scared me. Can't say I really understand the impact of oralism, as I never experienced it first hand, but I have talked to enough deaf people and read stories from deaf like you to realize it's something that it's not worth to fight for at all. Thanks for standing up and reminding us about how much totally waste of time oralism is!

Ok, don't know if many deaf people like this analogy, but deaf people put into oral schools gives me a picture of a gay person forced to live with a woman for 15 years. Horrible

Gosh! You captured my life so perfectly... my life in oralism was absolutely miserable.... :roll:

I understand that a lot of deaf people had a hard time in mainstream schools, but what a lot of Deaf people dont understand is that being in an ASL focused world, they will RARELY meet deaf people who did fine in oralism. They are randomly infilterated into society, not grouped together, unlike those who are ASL based who tend to go to deaf schools, deaf colleges, or hang out with other deaf people. So there's a VERY skewed perspective here.

 

[shel90]

Gosh! You captured my life so perfectly... my life in oralism was absolutely miserable.... :roll:

I understand that a lot of deaf people had a hard time in mainstream schools, but what a lot of Deaf people dont understand is that being in an ASL focused world, they will RARELY meet deaf people who did fine in oralism. They are randomly infilterated into society, not grouped together, unlike those who are ASL based who tend to go to deaf schools, deaf colleges, or hang out with other deaf people. So there's a VERY skewed perspective here.

Many people who are part of Deaf community were mainstreamed just like those who went to Deaf schools. I have met so many deaf people from different backgrounds in the Deaf community, not just those from deaf schools or deaf colleges. I noticed that more and more members in the community are people from other countries.

 

[Bottesini]

Gosh! You captured my life so perfectly... my life in oralism was absolutely miserable.... :roll:

I understand that a lot of deaf people had a hard time in mainstream schools, but what a lot of Deaf people dont understand is that being in an ASL focused world, they will RARELY meet deaf people who did fine in oralism. They are randomly infilterated into society, not grouped together, unlike those who are ASL based who tend to go to deaf schools, deaf colleges, or hang out with other deaf people. So there's a VERY skewed perspective here.

You seem to be having a little trouble being integrated into the collective!:scratch:

 

[Daredevel7]

No...because they acquire a strong first language from Spanish helping them to be able to acquire a 2nd language. My ex husband's family is a perfect example of that...they all didnt know English when they started school here in the US but picked up English within a year or so thanks to having established a strong first language.

With deaf children...spoken language is not fully accessible to them in the spoken form due to their inability to hear and discriminate words like heairng kids can so as a result, they dont establish a strong first language. That's the idea behind the BiBi approach...have all deaf children establish a strong first language in ASL or any other sign language and then acquire the 2nd language which is English, here in the USA.

Yes, but you're talking about the optimal progression. That's the "ideal" child from a BiBi program, having a STRONG L1 and then a STRONG L2. Same thing as a deaf child being able to communicate orally only is the "ideal" child from an oral program.

Anyway, my point was I believe it is possible that a person can suffer from knowing ASL, it just can't be seen. Before people attack me, I mean from a cultural standpoint, not the ASL itself. I mean, for example, why is Jillio and Shel who are "experts" and have "been there" promoting BiBi, not ASL only? What's wrong with knowing ASL only?