Can children distinguish early on...

[jillio]

Being Deaf means not only being deaf, but also aware of the social position it puts you in. A Deaf person is aware of the unfairness of a particular position and is ready to speak out against it when it happens and takes steps to remedy it, thereby educating everyone involved. A child simply does not have the necessary tools for it.

Right. And a child can grow to be Deaf in a hearing environment. In fact, being in a hearing environment is the impetus for many to search out the Deaf community and begin that journey. But the whole point is, it is a growth process that cannot be fully understood until one reaches the cognitive and emotional developmental stage that allows it to occur.

This is really stupid. A few people who know nothing about what they are spouting off about trying to prove experts (such as Piaget and Erikson, 2 of the most respected developmental psychologists ever) wrong. But actually, that attitude is pretty typical. They are the same ones that try to tell the Deaf (true experts) what is best for them. Problem is, they have a much higher opinion of themselves than anyone else does. And they seem to have very nasty temperaments, as well.

 

[Bottesini]

Being Deaf means not only being deaf, but also aware of the social position it puts you in. A Deaf person is aware of the unfairness of a particular position and is ready to speak out against it when it happens and takes steps to remedy it, thereby educating everyone involved. A child simply does not have the necessary tools for it.

Sounds like the Boy Scout oath to me.

But at least I know what you keep emphasizing as you tell everyone a kid can't be Deaf.

I agreed to a very similar credo when joining the NFB, although I don't think we really consider that there is a Blind Culture per se. That's just doing what is right.

 

[GrendelQ]

Being Deaf means not only being deaf, but also aware of the social position it puts you in. A Deaf person is aware of the unfairness of a particular position and is ready to speak out against it when it happens and takes steps to remedy it, thereby educating everyone involved. A child simply does not have the necessary tools for it.

Seems more like a club or organization than a culture defined as a social construct with shared language, customs, values and educational elements that distinguish it from other cultures.

 

[faire_jour]

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Wirelessly posted



no, the difference is that this child is being raised as a Deaf person. She is being raised with the cultural, educational and language aspects of being Deaf rather than deaf. The reason it takes most Deaf people so long to identify as Deaf is because they are not exposed to it. They don't discover it until they are adults. This child is being raised in and by the Deaf community. The only difference is the hearing status of her parents.

The reason it takes most Deaf people so long to identify as Deaf is because they are not developmentally capable of doing so until a later age.:roll:

Your child being raised Deaf? Oh, yeah, with an oral school and hearing parents and bilateral CIs. You are in the twilight zone. The hearing status of her parents is one of the reasons she is not being raised Deaf. You just don't understand what you are trying to discuss. But it's okay. We're used to that from you.

check again, i did not say "my child", i said "this child". You countinously tell others to work on their reading comprehension...perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

[Beowulf]

Seems more like a club or organization than a culture defined as a social construct with shared language, customs, values and educational elements that distinguish it from other cultures.

Not all Jews were willing to be led into death camps. A lot of them resisted fiercely. They were a special club, I suppose.

 

[Beowulf]

Sounds like the Boy Scout oath to me.

But at least I know what you keep emphasizing as you tell everyone a kid can't be Deaf.

I agreed to a very similar credo when joining the NFB, although I don't think we really consider that there is a Blind Culture per se. That's just doing what is right.

Doing what is right? Such as?

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Being Deaf means not only being deaf, but also aware of the social position it puts you in. A Deaf person is aware of the unfairness of a particular position and is ready to speak out against it when it happens and takes steps to remedy it, thereby educating everyone involved. A child simply does not have the necessary tools for it.

Right. And a child can grow to be Deaf in a hearing environment. In fact, being in a hearing environment is the impetus for many to search out the Deaf community and begin that journey. But the whole point is, it is a growth process that cannot be fully understood until one reaches the cognitive and emotional developmental stage that allows it to occur.

This is really stupid. A few people who know nothing about what they are spouting off about trying to prove experts (such as Piaget and Erikson, 2 of the most respected developmental psychologists ever) wrong. But actually, that attitude is pretty typical. They are the same ones that try to tell the Deaf (true experts) what is best for them. Problem is, they have a much higher opinion of themselves than anyone else does. And they seem to have very nasty temperaments, as well.

but you yourself have stated that a Deaf child of ***********s who is raised in the Deaf community is Deaf, but that the simple act of Grendel being able to hear negates EVERYTHING else and makes impossible for HER child to be Deaf, but not for say...PFH's or another Deaf adult's child.

THAT is where the disagreement lies.

 

[Beowulf]

Wirelessly posted



but you yourself have stated that a Deaf child of ***********s who is raised in the Deaf community is Deaf, but that the simple act of Grendel being able to hear negates EVERYTHING else and makes impossible for HER child to be Deaf, but not for say...PFH's or another Deaf adult's child.

THAT is where the disagreement lies.

Jillio never said that. I do not need to reread the comments to know that. I know how her mind works. :roll:

 

[Bottesini]

Doing what is right? Such as?

Did you miss the part where you talked about speaking out against injustice?

 

[jillio]

Sounds like the Boy Scout oath to me.

But at least I know what you keep emphasizing as you tell everyone a kid can't be Deaf.

I agreed to a very similar credo when joining the NFB, although I don't think we really consider that there is a Blind Culture per se. That's just doing what is right.

Right. The Blind are generally considered to be a part of the hearing culture because they use spoken language. The exception, of course, would be the DeafBlind.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



but you yourself have stated that a Deaf child of ***********s who is raised in the Deaf community is Deaf, but that the simple act of Grendel being able to hear negates EVERYTHING else and makes impossible for HER child to be Deaf, but not for say...PFH's or another Deaf adult's child.

THAT is where the disagreement lies.

You are again either failing to read completely, or failing to comprehend what you are reading. I suggest it is a combination of the two.

 

[jillio]

Seems more like a club or organization than a culture defined as a social construct with shared language, customs, values and educational elements that distinguish it from other cultures.

No it doesn't. And that remark is way too patronizing to be ignored. Shame on you.

 

[Beowulf]

Did you miss the part where you talked about speaking out against injustice?

Or building fires under people.

 

[AlleyCat]

Seems more like a club or organization than a culture defined as a social construct with shared language, customs, values and educational elements that distinguish it from other cultures.

Just a club or organization? Who the hell are you to tell me that?

Yes, I attend a d/Deaf club regularly. I attend DPHH regularly. So sorry that it makes you think I'm just a member of some cliche and say, "hey, I'm Deaf!"

It's the understanding that you are not alone in your deafness, that there's others out there that are similar (note: the understanding of that!), that we all share roughly a similar upbringing. This is not stuff we talked about at 5, 10, 15, even 20 years old. Sorry, I won't have you telling me (and the rest of us here), when we understand the cultural implications of this.

 

[jillio]

Just a club or organization? Who the hell are you to tell me that?

Yes, I attend a d/Deaf club regularly. I attend DPHH regularly. So sorry that it makes you think I'm just a member of some cliche and say, "hey, I'm Deaf!"

It's the understanding that you are not alone in your deafness, that there's others out there that are similar (note: the understanding of that!), that we all share roughly a similar upbringing. This is not stuff we talked about at 5, 10, 15, even 20 years old. Sorry, I won't have you telling me (and the rest of us here), when we understand the cultural implications of this.

 

[Bottesini]

Just a club or organization? Who the hell are you to tell me that?

Yes, I attend a d/Deaf club regularly. I attend DPHH regularly. So sorry that it makes you think I'm just a member of some cliche and say, "hey, I'm Deaf!"

It's the understanding that you are not alone in your deafness, that there's others out there that are similar (note: the understanding of that!), that we all share roughly a similar upbringing. This is not stuff we talked about at 5, 10, 15, even 20 years old. Sorry, I won't have you telling me (and the rest of us here), when we understand the cultural implications of this.

She was telling Beowulf what he described. It had nothing to do with anything other than his perceptions.

And I think he thinks it is like the Boy Scouts.

 

[jillio]

She was telling Beowulf what he described. It had nothing to do with anything other than his perceptions.

And I think he thinks it is like the Boy Scouts.

Most of the time we agree, Bott, but on this one... I think Beowulf has an excellent grasp of the cultural implications as applied to developmental concepts.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yes, and Grendel asked me the same/similar question yesterday as to why, if I've had exposure to this all my life, if I still didn't realize until much later why I feel "Deaf". It's all along the same lines here.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



but you yourself have stated that a Deaf child of ***********s who is raised in the Deaf community is Deaf, but that the simple act of Grendel being able to hear negates EVERYTHING else and makes impossible for HER child to be Deaf, but not for say...PFH's or another Deaf adult's child.

THAT is where the disagreement lies.

You are again either failing to read completely, or failing to comprehend what you are reading. I suggest it is a combination of the two.

in the previous thread, it was specifically asked if a child, born to ***********s, raised in the Deaf community would be Deaf, and the answer was yes.

 

[jillio]

Yes, and Grendel asked me the same/similar question yesterday as to why, if I've had exposure to this all my life, if I still didn't realize until much later why I feel "Deaf". It's all along the same lines here.

Yeppers. It is all just an attempt to discount the developmental principles underlying the ability to choose a cultural identity. She just doesn't want to accept the fact that they apply, and is looking for a way to get in the back door so she can support her claim.