Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[kokonut]

That's fine, about the illegals that is.

But don't the legal ones have the rights to walk around without fear of harassment or without having to be checked? I am willing to bet that non-Latinos don't have to worry about that.

Nothing is perfect though the law must be adhered and we do the best we can. I'd rather err on for the safety of our citizens. There are Latino citizens who agree and are against illegal immigration.

You Don't Speak for Me

 

[Foxrac]

They are here illegally...hence, a crime was committed entering the United States without proper documentation. That alone should be sufficient to require deportation back. This is done on a daily basis. Being here illegally is a crime in the first place.


Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:


has committed a federal crime.

8 U.S.C. § 1325 : US Code - Section 1325: Improper entry by alien

That's not match about what I was talking.

First, I already know that illegal immigrants are criminal/felony by federal law but my opinion about illegal immigrants are more civil issue than criminal, however they are still felony until get caught by ICE agents.

You are saying same words over again so I already know about immigrant issue so you should share with your opinion.

Now, I'm asking you about illegal immigrants whoever crossing illegally to commit murder or rape against American citizens in US so what they should?

1) life in prison or death penalty in US

OR

2) Deport them as free live in Mexico after commit murder or rape.

It is very sad for me to see American citizens to be victim from murder, rape, etc and deport the illegal immigrants to have free live in Mexico. That's just wrong, wrong, wrong.

FYI, I'm against on illegal immigrants, however I don't like AZ immigrant law because they will impacts on legal immigrants and citizen born, especially hispanics, they could get in trouble if they forget or not bring the documentation with them.

I agree with Jiro about there is many kind of thing to get deal with illegal immigrants and we should pushes Mexico government to take action on illegal immigrants whoever crossing to US.

 

[Berry]

Around and around and around and around

All fall down!

 

[TWA]

That's 9,000 citizens murdered each year by illegal aliens. That's more deaths than our troops overseas. It's a travesty that people find this acceptable and let illegal aliens have more rights than American citizens. They are here illegally and have broken the law.

LOL, where in the world did you get that number? Wait, don't tell me; I don't want to know...

Seeing as there were approximately 16,000 murders last year in the entire country, you're telling me that over half of them are committed by illegal aliens?

Seriously?

 

[kokonut]

That's not match about what I was talking.

First, I already know that illegal immigrants are criminal/felony by federal law but my opinion about illegal immigrants are more civil issue than criminal, however they are still felony until get caught by ICE agents.

You are saying same words over again so I already know about immigrant issue so you should share with your opinion.

Now, I'm asking you about illegal immigrants whoever crossing illegally to commit murder or rape against American citizens so what they should?

1) life in prison or death penalty in US

OR

2) Deport them as free live in Mexico after commit murder or rape.

It is very sad for me to see American citizens to be victim from murder, rape, etc and deport the illegal immigrants to have free live in Mexico. That's just wrong, wrong, wrong.

FYI, I'm against on illegal immigrants, however I don't like AZ immigrant law because they will impacts on legal immigrants and citizen born, especially hispanics, they could get in trouble if they forget or not bring the documentation with them.

I agree with Jiro about there is many kind of thing to get deal with illegal immigrants and we should pushes Mexico government to take action on illegal immigrants whoever crossing to US.

Nothing civil about entering illegally a country without proper documentation. It is a crime. Secondly, serious crimes on top of that, I'd say deport them all back instead of wasting our tax dollars on them in prisons which they'll be in for decades.

Not once have I heard other solutions to this illegal immigration problem.

 

[Foxrac]

Nothing civil about entering illegally a country without proper documentation. It is a crime. Secondly, serious crimes on top of that, I'd say deport them all back instead of wasting our tax dollars on them in prisons which they'll be in for decades.

Not once have I heard other solutions to this illegal immigration problem.

You fail to pay attention, in bold, THAT IS MY OPINION.

First, I already know that illegal immigrants are criminal/felony by federal law but my opinion about illegal immigrants are more civil issue than criminal, however they are still felony until get caught by ICE agents.

It means you don't care about American citizens are victim of murder, rape or serious crime by illegal immigrants without any serious punishment and deport them as free live in Mexico. :roll:

 

[Berry]

Nothing civil about entering illegally a country without proper documentation. It is a crime. Secondly, serious crimes on top of that, I'd say deport them all back instead of wasting our tax dollars on them in prisons which they'll be in for decades.

Not once have I heard other solutions to this illegal immigration problem.

That is because you define "THE PROBLEM" in such narrow terms.

Your over simplified approach requires an over simplified, and not necessarily productive solution. Even if your approach is successful it will have various negative reactions.

If we redefine the "problem" into some more accurate components we can easily see alternate solutions. Lets try this one: Separate non-citizens into three groups:

Those who actually benefit us, such as field workers who are willing do the work so many "Americans" don't want to do, and allowing enough of them to come in legally to do those jobs.

Allow honest people with family and friends, or who just want to shop for the weekend, to pass back and forth across the border with minimal problems. These people are of no particular benefit to us but they do no harm either.

Refuse non citizens the free benefits citizens are entitled to, such as routine medical care, welfare, etc. While it would be inhumane to deny anyone treatment they needed to save their life anything else a noncitizen should pay for out of pocket, including any public schooling their child receives.

Why should non citizens accused of crimes be granted the same rights as a citizen? For instance presumption of innocence prior to proof of guilt? Really crack down on non citizens who commit crimes so any tempted to do so will think twice.

Basically I suggest giving honest people more leeway and cracking down on those who are dishonest.

 

[Foxrac]

That is because you define "THE PROBLEM" in such narrow terms.

Your over simplified approach requires an over simplified, and not necessarily productive solution. Even if your approach is successful it will have various negative reactions.

If we redefine the "problem" into some more accurate components we can easily see alternate solutions. Lets try this one: Separate non-citizens into three groups:

Those who actually benefit us, such as field workers who are willing do the work so many "Americans" don't want to do, and allowing enough of them to come in legally to do those jobs.

Allow honest people with family and friends, or who just want to shop for the weekend, to pass back and forth across the border with minimal problems. These people are of no particular benefit to us but they do no harm either.

Refuse non citizens the free benefits citizens are entitled to, such as routine medical care, welfare, etc. While it would be inhumane to deny anyone treatment they needed to save their life anything else a noncitizen should pay for out of pocket, including any public schooling their child receives.

Why should non citizens accused of crimes be granted the same rights as a citizen? For instance presumption of innocence prior to proof of guilt? Really crack down on non citizens who commit crimes so any tempted to do so will think twice.

Basically I suggest giving honest people more leeway and cracking down on those who are dishonest.

I agreed with you.

I had been in immigrant debate for 5 years and I do like other forum because of very stronger opinions.

 

[kokonut]

LOL, where in the world did you get that number? Wait, don't tell me; I don't want to know...

Seeing as there were approximately 16,000 murders last year in the entire country, you're telling me that over half of them are committed by illegal aliens?

Seriously?

It's closer to 19,000 rather than 16,000.
FASTSTATS - Homicide

I'd grant that 9,000 is high though unconfirmed. Yet the 9,000 would come out to be 1 murder every 2 days in every state. In Phoenix alone there were 241 murders in one year. About 83 percent of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegal aliens. Phoenix is a population of 1.4 million. And this is just for the city alone, not the state.

Two illegal aliens charged with murder of South Carolina man

Phoenix Crime Statistics (AZ) - CityRating.com

What do you think the murder rate is?

 

[kokonut]

That is because you define "THE PROBLEM" in such narrow terms.

Your over simplified approach requires an over simplified, and not necessarily productive solution. Even if your approach is successful it will have various negative reactions.

If we redefine the "problem" into some more accurate components we can easily see alternate solutions. Lets try this one: Separate non-citizens into three groups:

Those who actually benefit us, such as field workers who are willing do the work so many "Americans" don't want to do, and allowing enough of them to come in legally to do those jobs.

Allow honest people with family and friends, or who just want to shop for the weekend, to pass back and forth across the border with minimal problems. These people are of no particular benefit to us but they do no harm either.

Refuse non citizens the free benefits citizens are entitled to, such as routine medical care, welfare, etc. While it would be inhumane to deny anyone treatment they needed to save their life anything else a noncitizen should pay for out of pocket, including any public schooling their child receives.

Why should non citizens accused of crimes be granted the same rights as a citizen? For instance presumption of innocence prior to proof of guilt? Really crack down on non citizens who commit crimes so any tempted to do so will think twice.

Basically I suggest giving honest people more leeway and cracking down on those who are dishonest.

Entering illegally into a country without proper documentation is a crime. Period. Nothing honest about it. That is what the federal law says. Deportation ought to be the end result. Had we built better border control fences, better monitoring, better oversight on companies' hiring practices, better documentation processes, and so on then we wouldn't see much of this mess. Then people would actually think twice of trying to enter illegally in the first place. There are times to be understanding and there are times you have to lay it down and get it done.

 

[kokonut]

You fail to pay attention, in bold, THAT IS MY OPINION.

It means you don't care about American citizens are victim of murder, rape or serious crime by illegal immigrants without any serious punishment and deport them as free live in Mexico. :roll:

It's also my opinion as well but you seem to miss out on few facts here. I never said deport them to Mexico. I said deport illegal aliens, which could be anybody of a nationality. Murderers are a menace to society and deserve a fast track to the execution squad. Oh, I care about the victims. It is Congress who don't care about the victims and don't get serious about the illegal immigration problem, about the border fences, or allow states have the means to deal with illegal aliens instead of tying their hands back.

 

[Foxrac]

It's also my opinion as well but you seem to miss out on few facts here. I never said deport them to Mexico. I said deport illegal aliens, which could be anybody of a nationality. Murderers are a menace to society and deserve a fast track to the execution squad. Oh, I care about the victims. It is Congress who don't care about the victims and don't get serious about the illegal immigration problem, about the border fences, or allow states have the means to deal with illegal aliens instead of tying their hands back.

Not in my state, if illegal immigrant murder one person so they will sentence to life in prison but if more than 1 person so execution, depends on court decision.

Execution will take around 10-25 years waiting period before really executed.

 

[Berry]

Entering illegally into a country without proper documentation is a crime. Period. Nothing honest about it. That is what the federal law says. Deportation ought to be the end result. Had we built better border control fences, better monitoring, better oversight on companies' hiring practices, better documentation processes, and so on then we wouldn't see much of this mess. Then people would actually think twice of trying to enter illegally in the first place. There are times to be understanding and there are times you have to lay it down and get it done.

Guess I oughta be shot at least twice then. We used to go shopping into Canada so often the guards knew us by sight. Mexico same same.

Nobody seemed to make a big deal out of these things until we got into a financial bind. But what the hell, if we can't figure out our own way out of the problems we created for ourselves we can always take it out on those who are worse off than ourselves.

 

[kokonut]

Not in my state, if illegal immigrant murder one person so they will sentence to life in prison but if more than 1 person so execution, depends on court decision.

Execution will take around 10-25 years waiting period before really executed.

Hence, a drain on resources. Speed things up a bit would help tremendously.

 

[kokonut]

Guess I oughta be shot at least twice then. We used to go shopping into Canada so often the guards knew us by sight. Mexico same same.

Nobody seemed to make a big deal out of these things until we got into a financial bind. But what the hell, if we can't figure out our own way out of the problems we created for ourselves we can always take it out on those who are worse off than ourselves.

Passports (or other acceptable documents) are required in Canada. I didn't say about getting shot, did I?

Effective June 1, 2009, U. S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) officials will begin to require that all travelers, including citizens of both Canada and the United States, present a valid passport, passport card, or WHTI compliant document when entering the U.S. through a land or sea border.

It is strongly recommended that all citizens of both Canada and the United States carry passports when crossing the U.S. / Canada border.

U.S. / Canada Passport Requirement

So, what happens if you're caught in Canada w/o a proper document if you're traveling? Well, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers will delay your travel as they attempt to verify your citizenship and identity. And because you entered Canada without any proper document or simply don't have one at all I believe you could risk up to two years of imprisonment in Canada. And since you returned to the U.S. without any documentation you risk up to 1 year of imprisonment in theb United States. Not sure about Mexico though but passports or other acceptable documents are required just the same.

 

[Berry]

Passports (or other acceptable documents) are required in Canada. I didn't say about getting shot, did I?


U.S. / Canada Passport Requirement

So, what happens if you're caught in Canada w/o a proper document if you're traveling? Well, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection officers will delay your travel as they attempt to verify your citizenship and identity. And because you entered Canada without any proper document or simply don't have one at all I believe you could risk up to two years of imprisonment in Canada. And since you returned to the U.S. without any documentation you risk up to 1 year of imprisonment in theb United States. Not sure about Mexico though but passports or other acceptable documents are required just the same.

So you have laws and you have enforcement of laws. When I was younger if you minded your own business and didn't cause anybody any grief you were pretty much left alone to bounce back and forth across both borders as you chose and some people did it a lot. A drivers license was all that was required, and you were seldom asked for that.

Now you want that changed into a zero tolerance policy.

Not sure I've seen zero tolerance policies do a lot of good in any other area so I'm not convinced it will do any good in this situation either.

So once again I have to ask, "What kind of a world will this zero tolerance policy produce and do we want to live that way?"

 

[whatdidyousay!]

So far...

I see nothing about the bill that will keep illegals OUT of America. All does is give the police some teeth to harass an individual whether or not he's legit citizen or not. So... how does this exactly help deter illegals from entering America? All it does is push people further and further underground.

Won't stop sex trafficking. Won't stop labour trafficking. Won't stop drug trafficking. Illegal exotic pet trafficking. As long there's demand for all of the above, people won't stop from trying to cross into another country.

And believe me... with 300 million legal citizens, there's a LOT of demands for the above; it might be in the minority, but there's enough people demanding services from illegals for them to keep crossing-- and those demands will be met, no matter how far underground it goes.

That is the real issues, the demand for illegals to do cheap labor! Walmart got busted for this! Take the demand away and made better paying jobs and people will do the work ! The employers should be busted for hiring illegals and paying them below the minimum wage! A guy from Africa cut his finger real bad on a meat slicer and he was given a band aid and told to go back to work! My husband told the guy he better go to ER and have his finger
fixed . The boss did not tell the guy that he had right to go to ER and that it paid for by the company insurance! I bet there are a lot of cases like happening every day! The boss was going to let the bleed all over the meat he was cutting for sandwiches! Talk about a health risk!

 

[whatdidyousay!]

You fail to pay attention, in bold, THAT IS MY OPINION.



It means you don't care about American citizens are victim of murder, rape or serious crime by illegal immigrants without any serious punishment and deport them as free live in Mexico. :roll:

Why are you yelling your head off!

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Link for that claim, please.

Don't you never watch the news! There is CC to read what being said!

 

[Berry]

That is the real issues, the demand for illegals to do cheap labor! Walmart got busted for this! Take the demand away and made better paying jobs and people will do the work ! The employers should be busted for hiring illegals and paying them below the minimum wage! A guy from Africa cut his finger real bad on a meat slicer and he was given a band aid and told to go back to work! My husband told the guy he better go to ER and have his finger
fixed . The boss did not tell the guy that he had right to go to ER and that it paid for by the company insurance! I bet there are a lot of cases like happening every day! The boss was going to let the bleed all over the meat he was cutting for sandwiches! Talk about a health risk!

As I been saying, the problem is not simple. Is it the illegal alien taking jobs away from the citizens or the employer trying to find under the table cheap labor.

The boss is the one who should be nailed for that one.

I remember the bracero program. As long as an employer had one bracero working for them any citizen who wanted to work had a job. My Spanish improved a lot as I was the only gringo in the area willing to do the job. So it was me and 350 Mexicans.