Arizona Governor Signs Additional Controversial Bill

[Jiro]

I **may** have a great example of how indoctrination works in our public school systems. How is the Civil War taught in Northern Schools vs. those of the South?

do you know? if so - why don't you tell me?

Does the race of the teacher have a factor in how it is taught?

most likely no

Is Robert E. Lee vilified in Northern Schools?

no. he was considered as one of the most brilliant Generals.

Are southerners vilified?

no why?

 

[Steinhauer]

Why do Northern Schools claim slavery caused the Civil War?

Why do Southern Schools claim States rights led to the Civil War?

 

[Banjo]

Why do Northern Schools claim slavery caused the Civil War?

Why do Southern Schools claim States rights led to the Civil War?

Well, neither are wrong.

Both of them played big roles in the war. However, the abolishing of slavery did result in several secessions from the union. However, that's a debate for another thread.

 

[Jiro]

Why do Northern Schools claim slavery caused the Civil War?

Why do Southern Schools claim States rights led to the Civil War?

2 questions
1. source please?
2. who is right then?

 

[Steinhauer]

Did you know that Robert E. Lee was an abolitionist?

Did you know that Stonewall Jackson broke segregation laws in Virgina (and was also an abolitionist)?

 

[Banjo]

Did you know that Robert E. Lee was an abolitionist?

Did you know that Stonewall Jackson broke segregation laws in Virgina (and was also an abolitionist)?

Cornerstone Speech
Confederate Vice President Alexander H. Stephens

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens

Enough said.

 

[Jiro]

Did you know that Robert E. Lee was an abolitionist?

Robert E. Lee was a top graduate of West Point. He's still considered a legend as an iconic of military leadership. But let's get this right -

1. Robert E. Lee did not support allowing freed slaves to have rights to vote
2. He was late in the game to allow slaves to serve in Confederate army
3. He was late in emancipating the slaves under his control (Custis)
4. He had several slaves working for him
5. Prior to Civil War - he believed slave labor was necessary for improving financial situation.

Abolitionist? I think not - not originally.

Did you know that Stonewall Jackson broke segregation laws in Virgina (and was also an abolitionist)?

Jackson too was a West Point graduate. His Bull Runs were pretty ruthless.

Now let's get this right - the main focus of Civil War is to "crush" the rebellion on those states who want to secede from the Union. This is not about black and white people. In Northern states - the slavery was abolished but not in southern states. Anyway - that wasn't the main reason of Civil War.

The southern states were the firm believer of "statehood" while the northern states were the firm believer of "federalism". President Abraham Lincoln (Republican) was flexing his muscle to uphold the Constitution and law.

 

[Banjo]

Now let's get this right - the main focus of Civil War is to "crush" the rebellion on those states who want to secede from the Union. This is not about black and white people. In Northern states - the slavery was abolished but not in southern states. Anyway - that wasn't the main reason of Civil War.

Don't forget that the Confederate were the first to attack, not the Union.

 

[kokonut]

Top 5 reasons for the Civil War.

Top Five Causes of the Civil War

The central theme has been around slavery and the state's rights to slavery over federal govt's intervention.

 

[Steinhauer]

Robert E. Lee was a top graduate of West Point. He's still considered a legend as an iconic of military leadership. But let's get this right -

1. Robert E. Lee did not support allowing freed slaves to have rights to vote
2. He was late in the game to allow slaves to serve in Confederate army
3. He was late in emancipating the slaves under his control (Custis)
4. He had several slaves working for him
5. Prior to Civil War - he believed slave labor was necessary for improving financial situation.

Abolitionist? I think not - not originally.


Jackson too was a West Point graduate. His Bull Runs were pretty ruthless.

Now let's get this right - the main focus of Civil War is to "crush" the rebellion on those states who want to secede from the Union. This is not about black and white people. In Northern states - the slavery was abolished but not in southern states. Anyway - that wasn't the main reason of Civil War.

The southern states were the firm believer of "statehood" while the northern states were the firm believer of "federalism". President Abraham Lincoln (Republican) was flexing his muscle to uphold the Constitution and law.

would you say that lessons of the Civil War are taught "differently" then?


http://www.slavenorth.com/

 

[Jiro]

would you say that lessons of the Civil War are taught "differently" then?


Slavery in the North

I don't know that since I was never educated in south but I don't judge the person's education based on his state. It is each person's responsibility and a choice to learn all sides of the stories. It is also a person's choice to be an ignorant.

 

[darkdog]

My rule of thumb- any class or college major that ends with the word "studies" is probably complete garbage. Perhaps there are exceptions to that, but I can't think of any of the top of my head.

 

[CJB]

I love how they're using neutral language because the only dominant ethnic group in Arizona is Hispanic people

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Huh...

Okay... I always thought the Civil War was originally about State Rights versus Federalism until Lincolin's Emancipation Proclamation in 1862-1863, which formally made the Civil War become a slavery issue.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

My rule of thumb- any class or college major that ends with the word "studies" is probably complete garbage. Perhaps there are exceptions to that, but I can't think of any of the top of my head.

Hope you're never planning to hire law students.

 

[Steinhauer]

Huh...

Okay... I always thought the Civil War was originally about State Rights versus Federalism until Lincolin's Emancipation Proclamation in 1862-1863, which formally made the Civil War become a slavery issue.

As a southerner, I was taught the Civil War was about State Rights. I was also taught that the Civil War was the "War of Northern Aggression".

It wasn't until I attended Gally and met, and talked with those from the north, that I was able to see a difference in how I was taught and how they were taught about the same thing.

To them, the Civil War was completely about slavery and southerners were low educated redneck hillbillies.

As a southerner, I viewed those whom lived up North as overly aggressive, rude and selfish people lacking proper manners. This accounted for the reason so many of "them" had broken families ("step" families). Anyways, this was my "perception" a long time ago ....

There is a distinct cultural difference between Southerners and Northerners.

 

[Steinhauer]

Do you think Honest Abe Lincoln didn't want expansion of slavery in new territories because he thought slavery was immoral?

You would be wrong to think this - abolishing of slavery did not take place until mid civil war. Abe Lincoln was forced to author the Emancipation Proclamation by the abolitionist movement in his own party .... you will notice he directed his comments to the Confederate States, whom he had no control over at the time. . .

Lincoln ran on a platform stating that new territories in the US would be slave free, not because he thought slavery was immoral .... no. No, no, no. Lincoln wanted new territories to be "whites only". He was a racist ..... read for yourself:

While I was at the hotel to-day an elderly gentleman called upon me to know whether I was really in favor of producing a perfect equality between the negroes and white people. [Great laughter.] While I had not proposed to myself on this occasion to say much on that subject, yet as the question was asked me I thought I would occupy perhaps five minutes in saying something in regard to it. I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, [applause]---that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything. I do not understand that because I do not want a negro woman for a slave I must necessarily want her for a wife. [Cheers and laughter.] My understanding is that I can just let her alone. I am now in my fiftieth year, and I certainly never have had a black woman for either a slave or a wife. So it seems to me quite possible for us to get along without making either slaves or wives of negroes. I will add to this that I have never seen to my knowledge a man, woman or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social and political, between negroes and white men. I recollect of but one distinguished instance that I ever heard of so frequently as to be entirely satisfied of its correctness---and that is the case of Judge Douglas' old friend Col. Richard M. Johnson. [Laughter.] I will also add to the remarks I have made, (for I am not going to enter at large upon this subject,) that I have never had the least apprehension that I or my friends would marry negroes if there was no law to keep them from it, [laughter] but as Judge Douglas and his friends seem to be in great apprehension that they might, if there were no law to keep them from it, [roars of laughter] I give him the most solemn pledge that I will to the very last stand by the law of this State, which forbids the marrying of white people with negroes. [Continued laughter and applause.] I will add one further word, which is this, that I do not understand there is any place where an alteration of the social and political relations of the negro and the white man can be made except in the State Legislature---not in the Congress of the United States---and as I do not really apprehend the approach of any such thing myself, and as Judge Douglas seems to be in constant horror that some such danger is rapidly approaching, I propose as the best means to prevent it that the Judge be kept at home and placed in the State Legislature to fight the measure. [Uproarious laughter and applause.] I do not propose dwelling longer at this time on this subject.

Probably something they fail to mention to you in Northern Schools .....

oh ... and by the way .... Lincoln wanted to deport slaves back to Africa ....

"You and we are different races. We have between us a broader difference than exists between almost any other 2 races. Even when you cease to be slaves, you are yet far removed from being placed on an equality with the white race. you are cut off from many of the advantages which the other race enjoys. It is better for us both to be separated."-Abraham Lincoln, during a meeting with free Negro leaders, at the White House, August, 1862

 

[jillio]

The way I read it, ethnic studies is an all inclusive class (excluding other races) and is segregation.

Social studies is integrated.

How can an ethnic studies class be all inclusive and exclude other races at the same time? The whole sentence is oxymoronic.

BTW, an ethnic studies class would be something that, for instance, falls under the department heading of African American Studies. That does not exclude anyone from registering for, attending, and studying the material. The same could be said for a Deaf Studies class. Schools systems cannot set classes up that are segregated by race. It is a violation of federal and state laws.

Once again, a bunch of word twisting and assumption meant to do no more than troll and attempt to support a questionably motivated agenda.

 

[Reba]

The measure signed Tuesday prohibits classes that advocate ethnic solidarity, that are designed primarily for students of a particular race or that promote resentment toward a certain ethnic group...

The measure doesn't prohibit classes that teach about the history of a particular ethnic group, as long as the course is open to all students and doesn't promote ethnic solidarity or resentment...

Arizona governor signs bill banning ethnic studies | Raw Story

 

[kokonut]

"Public schools should not be encouraging students to resent a particular race..."

I agree.