Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Liebling:-)))]

I gave the medical terminology, not my opinion, and I gave the reference.

Where is your reference, please?

Come on and use your common sense please.

I do not need to prove you anything since you know the difference between miscarriage and abortion.

 

[Angel]

But what if some of sex protection like BC doesn't work when they decide for not want to make a baby yet?

The only time birth control pills wouldn't work as IF they miss taken them, cause once they're on the birth control pills, they must be taken at the same time every day, without missing any doses to prevent pregnancy..If some women prefer to be protected against sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy then the best choice would be to use condoms...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

All those things continue to happen, unrelated to abortion. Do you have any statistical proof that children die worldwide from abuse, starvation, and murder just because they weren't aborted?

*scratch my head* I thought you know.

I thought you know that a lot of children suffered because a lot of people are hurried to become parents without think twice or have to become parents accord their belief. No, I would not provide the links to prove you since the many threads, the creators created with links over children abuses from websites. Next time, please pay more attention to any threads about children abuse, starvation, etc.

The parents should think twice either they can acheive to cope family life or not or give baby up a new home or abort a fetus to aviod to make future child suffer.

Sometimes that happens. There are no guarantees with life.

It´s not fair for child to suffer like this.

No, you didn't ruin her life. She made her own decisions. When she decided to keep the child, you supported her and did the best you could.

for positive my thought.

Either you judge them or you don't; you can't have it both ways.

No, you don´t get it.

I only support abortion is:

severe birth defects like this
severe birth defects - Google Bilder

To remove dead fetus from mother´s womb.

To remove dead baby at partial birth

Unwanted pregnancy when they use sex protection like Birth Control

Remove fetus to save mother´s risk life

and total against to consider abortion as a birth control is:

Just simple abort dozen of times as a birth control like what Russians did in Russia. They doesn´t bother to use sex protection because they know abortion is the solution to rid of fetus which is not right.

They can use Medicaid and WIC, and other state programs.

What is WIC?

I thought Medicaid is for low income employees/workers/unemployees.

Depends on the job.

"Depend" is no good.

Why not?

Why?

She shouldn't go thru it alone. The man should be legally forced to financially support the woman and child.

Yes I has to agree with you on this but I personally think it´s really no good for child to look up parent´s role like this.

It doesn't matter if the woman is strong or not. The man should still pay support. No woman should be left to cope alone.

It´s up to woman either she is strong enough to cope her child or not. You can´t force the woman to keep a baby and get that man to pay support when the woman decide to not keep her baby.

Look at an example of a guy, I know at long time ago, want to have his girlfriend to keep his baby and willing to be responsible for them but his girlfriend decides to abort it. What would you say ? I cannot do anything to make him or her because it´s between them, not us.

If the woman decides to keep her baby and want that man to pay support then I support her.

If the woman decides to not keep her baby and do not need that man to pay support then I still support her.

If woman want abort or give her baby up for adoption and man don´t want abort and adoption. It´s between them, not me.

 

[Hwy99]

See my response on Reba's post.

Yeah I see that, I would just let the debate stay between you and Reba

Yes it's good choice but it's not alway easy for mothers to make their own decision either abortion or adoption is choice or not.

Yupp agree, not easy... :-/

Can you image that they have to spend medical, clothes expenses on unborn baby when they plan to not keep their baby when medicare do not cover all of expenses for them? I learn from other thread where some mothers come from is take money from adoptive parents for medical expenses, they carried up to 9 months to be survive themselves.

Well yeah it would be expensive, but the parents don't have to buy so much while they are not keeping the baby. What I mean about "temporary" is to buy a few of clothes and cheap as possible for temporary while holding baby before sending them for adoption. It's not easy to process with the baby in any way..

How could mothers acheive to fulfill their child's wish with stamps, SSI, etc?

Hmm.. I am going to do the budget to see how mother can earn because the single-mothers have more thing than I have.

$623 SSI
$150 Food Stamps
$400 Child Support
Total= $1173.

With almost $1,200 income, a single-mother can surivive with a baby. It's just to me that it is possible. There is also the Housing Authority to help single-mothers/fathers, disablities, elders, etc with low-income to have a home.

Thank you for ask me question.

No problem

They get social assistance and housing allowance from government. They have to live in social apartment where social department pay the rent and allowance for them. All what they do is get allowance from Government to manage with foods, utility bill and clothes. They also received social allowance for each child from Government, too when their fathers are fail to pay child support for them out of reason is no money - out of work - escape out of Europe...
Depend on their income if they work part time. If unemploy mothers, then full social assistance.

Interesting, thank you for sharing. To me, it's not that bad.. Quite of similar to America, JMO..

Abortion - they need reason in writing under doctor's order.. then healthcare cover the cost of abortion full.

I am sure we in America do the same..

Adoption - social welfare gave mother to be the limited how much they spend on materity clothes. (medical expenses for pregnancy are cover full by heathcare). They have to keep recipes with stamp from babycare shop until 8 weeks after child's birth. The mothers can make their decision within 8 weeks after birth either they want to keep their baby or not. After 8 weeks, baby go to CPS and recipes go to social welfare...

That's pretty much similar to ours in America..

I also keep the recipes how much I spent on baby expenses (pram, bed, sheets, newborn clothes, maternity clothes, etc. up to one year for Tax Refund, too.

Like what I said that US and EU system is different.

Yeah they are different, but kinda of similar.

 

[Reba]

See my first quoted post toward your post #554. Is it reason why they force their minors to abort is because they don´t have insurance coverage?

I have no idea why parents would force their daughters to get abortions. I'm sure each parent would have a very individual, personal reason. Why don't you ask them?

I certainly wouldn't be so foolish as to say that the reason parents force their daughters (if they do) to have abortions is because they don't have insurance. I have nothing to back up such a broad statement.

 

[Reba]

*scratch my head* I thought you know.

I thought you know that a lot of children suffered because a lot of people are hurried to become parents without think twice or have to become parents accord their belief. No, I would not provide the links to prove you since the many threads, the creators created with links over children abuses from websites. Next time, please pay more attention to any threads about children abuse, starvation, etc.

The parents should think twice either they can acheive to cope family life or not or give baby up a new home or abort a fetus to aviod to make future child suffer.

Of course I have noticed lots of postings to that opinion but that's not the same as proving a correlation between non-aborted babies and the ills of the world. The number of threads and bloggings about a subject don't make a postulate so.

It´s not fair for child to suffer like this.

Life isn't fair, that's true.

for positive my thought.

Welcome.

No, you don´t get it.

I only support abortion is:

severe birth defects like this
severe birth defects - Google Bilder

To remove dead fetus from mother´s womb.

To remove dead baby at partial birth

Unwanted pregnancy when they use sex protection like Birth Control

Remove fetus to save mother´s risk life

and total against to consider abortion as a birth control is:

Just simple abort dozen of times as a birth control like what Russians did in Russia. They doesn´t bother to use sex protection because they know abortion is the solution to rid of fetus which is not right.

I know the difference. But it's still judging. What's so awful about judging? If judging is done impartially, based on facts, with pure motivation, what's so wrong? There's no need to be defensive about it.

What is WIC?

Women, Infants, and Children = WIC
"WIC provides Federal grants to States for supplemental foods, health care referrals, and nutrition education for low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum women, and to infants and children up to age five who are found to be at nutritional risk."
WIC

I thought Medicaid is for low income employees/workers/unemployees.

This explains some of the groups covered by Medicare:

</title> <title>Mandatory Eligibility Groups

"Depend" is no good.

Huh? I can't give you an answer for every company that exists in America. It depends on the company. Each company has a different plan with a different insurance company. It all depends on what that company has set up with that particular insurance company, and which plan that particular employee has enrolled with. There is no answer that covers every possibility. Some coverage ends immediately, some 30 days later, 60 days later, or some continues or can be converted if the enrollee maintains payments; there are many different situations. I can't answer them all.

Sorry if that's not good enough for you.

Why?

You tell me. I said that they can apply for Medicaid. You tell me why they can't.

Yes I has to agree with you on this but I personally think it´s really no good for child to look up parent´s role like this.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. The father should pay for the child's support, even if the man is not a good role model. Role model, role schmodel--he needs to pay up.

It´s up to woman either she is strong enough to cope her child or not. You can´t force the woman to keep a baby and get that man to pay support when the woman decide to not keep her baby.

I didn't say anything about forcing a woman to keep the baby. If she wants to give it up for adoption, that's fine. But either way, the man must pay support until such time that the baby is legally adopted by another couple.

Look at an example of a guy, I know at long time ago, want to have his girlfriend to keep his baby and willing to be responsible for them but his girlfriend decides to abort it. What would you say ? I cannot do anything to make him or her because it´s between them, not us.

That has nothing to do with child support. You're changing the subject.

Of course you can't do anything legally about another person's decision. You don't have the legal authority.

If the woman decides to keep her baby and want that man to pay support then I support her.

If the woman decides to not keep her baby and do not need that man to pay support then I still support her.

If woman want abort or give her baby up for adoption and man don´t want abort and adoption. It´s between them, not me.

I talking about legal and moral responsibility of the father for the child. The guy should pay. The law doesn't require your approval for that. It involves the man, the woman, the baby, and the law. It doesn't involve you or me.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Hmm.. I am going to do the budget to see how mother can earn because the single-mothers have more thing than I have.

$623 SSI
$150 Food Stamps
$400 Child Support
Total= $1173.

With almost $1,200 income, a single-mother can surivive with a baby. It's just to me that it is possible. There is also the Housing Authority to help single-mothers/fathers, disablities, elders, etc with low-income to have a home.

Okay, I have another question about Child Support accord your post. Who pays? Government or Father?

If your answer is Father, then my question is: who will support her with child support if the father disappeared without pay child support?

 

[Hwy99]

Okay, I have another question about Child Support accord your post. Who pays? Government or Father?

If your answer is Father, then my question is: who will support her with child support if the father disappeared without pay child support?

Father pays, but I am not sure if government do pay, but my cousin who are a single-mother told me, that's how I know the amounts.

I know if a father who leave his child with the child's mother alone without paying the child support, then he will be arrested. I dont know what's next after a father being arrested.

 

[Schermy]

I am Pro Choice. NO ONE should have the right to tell another person what to do with their body PERIOD.

 

[Foxrac]

Father pays, but I am not sure if government do pay, but my cousin who are a single-mother told me, that's how I know the amounts.

I know if a father who leave his child with the child's mother alone without paying the child support, then he will be arrested. I dont know what's next after a father being arrested.

Really? That's new to me.

 

[Reba]

Really? That's new to me.

If there has been a court judgment for child support, and the father disregards the judgment, he can have his wages garnisheed, his tax refund attached, and/or do jail time. It's possible. It depends on local enforcement.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Of course I have noticed lots of postings to that opinion but that's not the same as proving a correlation between non-aborted babies and the ills of the world. The number of threads and bloggings about a subject don't make a postulate so.

Is the articles from media, many thread creators provided is only bloggings and opinion?

For your sake, I hope you don't deny that the many children from many countries in the world are being abuse/suffer to death or be survive by their abusive parents?

Life isn't fair, that's true.

Yes, it's unfair to bring children into a world when they're not wanted, don't they?

I noticed that many unwanted children are being abuse.

Welcome.

but it's still not easy.

I know the difference. But it's still judging. What's so awful about judging? If judging is done impartially, based on facts, with pure motivation, what's so wrong? There's no need to be defensive about it.

No, I don't think you know the difference between a good and a bad abortion.

Depend on our judgement on how good or bad situation they made... Example: we judge murder/rapist etc because they did wrong. Right? It's an exact that I judge a bad abortion for abort dozen of times without use sex protection because they did wrong.

Women, Infants, and Children = WIC
"WIC provides Federal grants to States for supplemental foods, health care referrals, and nutrition education for low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum women, and to infants and children up to age five who are found to be at nutritional risk."
WIC

for provide the link and abbrevation word WIC. I read carefully in those link and want to make sure either I understand correct or not.

It doesn't say anything about support uninsured worker/employee pregnant women in those link but for low-income pregnant women only. (I take it that they support unemploy or low-income pregnant women only).

This explains some of the groups covered by Medicare:

</title> <title>Mandatory Eligibility Groups

again for other link.

Those Medicard is for eligible pregnant women only and their income need to be check?

That's not what I ask you question about. It's employee/worker who decide to not join health insurance. I learn from other threads that they are unable to have Medicare because they have enough income

Huh? I can't give you an answer for every company that exists in America. It depends on the company. Each company has a different plan with a different insurance company. It all depends on what that company has set up with that particular insurance company, and which plan that particular employee has enrolled with. There is no answer that covers every possibility. Some coverage ends immediately, some 30 days later, 60 days later, or some continues or can be converted if the enrollee maintains payments; there are many different situations. I can't answer them all.

Sorry if that's not good enough for you.

Exactly, what I thought so after got your answer here. Health Insurance, we decide, not our Employer. I gave my preference with the address of Health Insurance and which bank and account number to my employer. All Employer in different companies, businesses or whatever are obligate to pay 50%. Employer stop to pay 50% when I am not longer work for them but my unemployment insurance when I am out of work. Like what I said before that US and EU system are different.

You tell me. I said that they can apply for Medicaid. You tell me why they can't.

The 2 links, you provided answer to my question.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. The father should pay for the child's support, even if the man is not a good role model. Role model, role schmodel--he needs to pay up.

I mean, it create more problem when the father deny to pay for the child's support sometimes to lead the mother struggle with money to take care of her child. Some child look up his parent's role then they would do the same when they become fathers which is a scary. That's why many mothers accept to take care of their child alone without stress/hassle from their ex or take them to court to get child support...

It's good when some father are willing to accept the responsibly and pay the support for his child because he want to have his visit rights then a child will look up to parent's role and know how respectful their parents are.

I didn't say anything about forcing a woman to keep the baby. If she wants to give it up for adoption, that's fine. But either way, the man must pay support until such time that the baby is legally adopted by another couple.

You are against mother's decision for abort her fetus for good reason and beleive that she should keep her baby or give her baby up for an adoption. Right?

That has nothing to do with child support. You're changing the subject.

No, I am not change the subject but state the fact because a guy, I know well. Its about abortion issues. I know that a guy, I know well is not only one but some fathers as well who want to keep baby and willing for their responsiblities but mothers refused.

Of course you can't do anything legally about another person's decision. You don't have the legal authority.

It's woman's own decision, not you, me and anyone. They have good reason for demand child support accord the law but they also have good reason for not bother to demand child support as well. It's their own decision, not you, me and anyone.

I talking about legal and moral responsibility of the father for the child. The guy should pay. The law doesn't require your approval for that. It involves the man, the woman, the baby, and the law. It doesn't involve you or me.

wow, the mother has the right to say no to father if she don't want to do anything with father to consider her child. Our law give mothers free to make their own decision. The law do anything IF mother demand the child support from father and visit rights. The law is on mother's side.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If there has been a court judgment for child support, and the father disregards the judgment, he can have his wages garnisheed, his tax refund attached, and/or do jail time. It's possible. It depends on local enforcement.

Yes, same with here in Germany except jail but fine penalty and cover court/lawyer cost only if mothers demand child support from them.


I learn from some Aders that dead-beat Dads don't bother to pay and owe thousands of dollar but they still have no money and no work... Let some ADers answer your post themselves what they experienced. I didn't forget how bad experience they were with dead beat Dads.

I know from my American co-workers that a lot of father fake their social numbers for aviod to pay child support.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I have no idea why parents would force their daughters to get abortions. I'm sure each parent would have a very individual, personal reason.

*total speechless :jaw:* I do not say anymore further...

Why don't you ask them?

Why should I repeat to ask them when I didn't forget how bad experience ADers had. We were there to support them in several lock threads in the past. I do not need to ask them because I didn't ignore and forget their past experiences.

I certainly wouldn't be so foolish as to say that the reason parents force their daughters (if they do) to have abortions is because they don't have insurance. I have nothing to back up such a broad statement.

I say no more further.

 

[Angel]

If your answer is Father, then my question is: who will support her with child support if the father disappeared without pay child support?

If a father refuses to pay child support or suddenly left his job and disappeared, the child support agency will try to obtain payments from the father's checks such as if he is receiving any government, employment assistance or tax refund and if he is caught or found from anyone he comes in contact with, they will send him a court order to force him to show up in court and explain why he avoid paying child support and if he fail to show up in court, then a warrant will be in place for his arrest, and either way, the case will still remains open and he will still owe back child support, they will continue to searching for him as long as he live and soon enough, he will run out of places to hide...

And the mother can seek help from the government assistance for child support, if needed or she will have to work in order to take care of her child (ren)...I've seen some poor single mothers who stuggle by trying to provide foods, shelter for their children, that's why I have a lot of respect for single mothers who is doing all they can to make sure their children are happy and well taken care of....


I have no respect for dead beat fathers who just walk away and not paying his share of responsibility as a parent..These children are innocent and it's OUR job to make sure they're feed and have a roof over their heads...

 

[Angel]

I have no idea why parents would force their daughters to get abortions. I'm sure each parent would have a very individual, personal reason.

:jaw:, It's almost like you're actually saying that the parents has a right to force their daughters to get an abortions just because they have a personal reason for it?...

I just hope I'm reading this wrong...

 

[Hwy99]

:jaw:, It's almost like you're actually saying that the parents has a right to force their daughters to get an abortions just because they have a personal reason for it?...

I just hope I'm reading this wrong...

Yupp... Reba is right... Parents DO have right to force their daughter/s to abort the baby if they are under the age of 18. That happened to my cousin's girlfriend. Her parents forced her to abort and refuse allow my cousin to see her, and her parents have been putting my cousin in the court many times trying to punish my cousin, but they always lost lost lost. Later my cousin and his girlfriend fed up and ran away to Missouri from Washington till his girlfriend became 18 then they came back. It was really disappoiment that they failed to save the baby from her parents..

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

Yupp... Reba is right... Parents DO have right to force their daughter/s to abort the baby if they are under the age of 18. That happened to my cousin's girlfriend. Her parents forced her to abort and refuse allow my cousin to see her, and her parents have been putting my cousin in the court many times trying to punish my cousin, but they always lost lost lost. Later my cousin and his girlfriend fed up and ran away to Missouri from Washington till his girlfriend became 18 then they came back. It was really disappoiment that they failed to save the baby from her parents..

Ah it is hard situation. As a mother if my daughter got pregnant or my son got a girl pregnant, I would not force either one of them to get abortions. I would tell my child how much I love her and my son and let them know that I am always there for them to help them and let them make their own desicion. But however I would want them to continue to finish high school and go to college. I would never force my child to do anything that exteme choice they can't handle. All I can do is give them my love and advice.

 

[Foxrac]

Yupp... Reba is right... Parents DO have right to force their daughter/s to abort the baby if they are under the age of 18. That happened to my cousin's girlfriend. Her parents forced her to abort and refuse allow my cousin to see her, and her parents have been putting my cousin in the court many times trying to punish my cousin, but they always lost lost lost. Later my cousin and his girlfriend fed up and ran away to Missouri from Washington till his girlfriend became 18 then they came back. It was really disappoiment that they failed to save the baby from her parents..

That's same thing from what my parent told me and they explained to me about their rule, if my sister get pregnant at under 18 then they will force her to get abortion due their non-tolerance policy of sex with other male without any protective item like condom, plus then if she's hit 18 then she have pay on her own in full (such as no support or little from parent) but in case, if boyfriend would help her to support the child. In some of reason, they can force to give up for adoption if abortion was unnecessary or disagreement.

It's important to put condom on it before start sex with other, better than get unwanted pregnant.

Every parents have different rules and consequences with their daughters.

Additional, I'm not support to force parent's daughter to get abortion, I believe that daughter should make choice to get abortion or give for adoption, instead of parent's decision.

 

[Hwy99]

Ah it is hard situation. As a mother if my daughter got pregnant or my son got a girl pregnant, I would not force either one of them to get abortions. I would tell my child how much I love her and my son and let them know that I am always there for them to help them and let them make their own desicion. But however I would want them to continue to finish high school and go to college. I would never force my child to do anything that exteme choice they can't handle. All I can do is give them my love and advice.

Agree, it's very hard situation.. I would do the same thing as you said, I would show my children as respect, and would never force them into extremely choice or making them feel like I am too over-control on them. Also it's hard for my family because my family is pro-life.. *sigh* Time goes by.. I totally agree with you what you just said..

That's same thing from what my parent told me and they explained to me about their rule, if my sister get pregnant at under 18 then they will force her to get abortion due their non-tolerance policy of sex with other male without any protective item like condom, plus then if she's hit 18 then she have pay on her own in full (such as no support or little from parent) but in case, if boyfriend would help her to support the child. In some of reason, they can force to give up for adoption if abortion was unnecessary or disagreement.

It's important to put condom on it before start sex with other, better than get unwanted pregnant.

Every parents have different rules and consequences with their daughters.

Additional, I'm not support to force parent's daughter to get abortion, I believe that daughter need make choice to get abortion or give for adoption, instead of parent's decision.

I am sorry that your parents are like that.. It's not easy to do such a thing to a daughter or son. I am against parents who force their children to abort the baby too, I believe the baby is the daughter and her boyfriend or son and her girlfriend's choice about the baby. Also I would add that bold font, "or keep the baby".

My cousin and his girlfriend actually wish that they could have save the baby, but too late.. Also it was hard to my families too because we are pro-life... It's too much of conflicts..