Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[webexplorer]

Sorry you misunderstood me. I said I would have adopted children but was not able to do all the legal stuff required. (like make more money) I meant I raised my own biological children. Yes there is a black market in children that I think the legal system at least here has fostered.

Oh, I understand it now. I thought that you adopted three children which mean "3 left at home." Gee. Sorry about that. Perhaps, someday you would have enough money to help the adopted children. God Bless you. I guess that adoption is a problem now that I did not know about. Maybe, that's why they need ("not want") to have an abortion to prevent this situation. I wish that there must be another way to help young people to prevent this happen. Sex is a powerful that cannot be stopped. I could not imagine that it is so difficult for some young males not to wear a condom. I remember a priest said that he wants young people to have more children so that he needs the money from them when they get older. We are disappointed to learn that many priests never said about a sex protection issue in their church. That's why we have so many churches everywhere. Although, it is very interesting to see that. Thanks for the clarify. Smile.

 

[fredfam1]

welcome, When I was getting my degree in psychology, we studied
this problem about condom usage. The prof told us this.
1. There are more ways to prevent
than there ever has been.
2. There is more education on the topic
that is gotten to an even younger audiance
than ever before.

So his question to us was, "Knowing the above two facts
why has the pregnancy rate climbed higher than ever befor?"

His conclusion that stoping or even thinking about preventing
a pregnancy implied that you had concern and compassion
for the other person. If you cared than you could not
enguage in sex that was noncommital and recreational.

So basically ignoring this aspect of the act on sexual
intercourse allowed the individuals to participate in
recreational sex with out accepting responsibility.

That was basically the whole problem with the "free love"
movement of the late 60s and the 70's.

Children are not being taught to accept the consequences
of their actions and neither are adults.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Is the abortion good choice when mothers can't afford to carry their fetus to 9 months with medical expenses, plus materity clothes, etc when the healthcare don't cover the cost for all expenses?

Is the adoption good choice when mothers spend medical expenses, maternity clothes, etc to carry their fetus to 9 months before gave their unborn babies up for an adoption?

I can see that some people judge mothers's decision for abortion or adoption. I can understand the point that mothers took money for medicine expenses to carry their baby to 9 months before give their unborn babies up for an adoption when the healthcare doesn't cover the costs for all expenses.

I guess that US and EU system is different.

 

[Angel]

Is the abortion good choice when mothers can't afford to carry their fetus to 9 months with medical expenses, plus materity clothes, etc when the healthcare don't cover the cost for all expenses?

No.

Is the adoption good choice when mothers spend medical expenses, maternity clothes, etc to carry their fetus to 9 months before gave their unborn babies up for an adoption?

Yes or keep it.

I can see that some people judge mothers's decision for abortion or adoption. I can understand the point that mothers took money for medicine expenses to carry their baby to 9 months before give their unborn babies up for an adoption when the healthcare doesn't cover the costs for all expenses.

I guess that US and EU system is different.

I still think abortion should be the last option but I'm not going to interfere their decision anyhow...

And I wasn't pleased to find out that Mann_K05 decide to closed her thread about anti -adoptions when I find her thread a good one ...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No.

But they have no money to buy maternity clothes, etc to carry the baby to 9 months ? Who will support them?

Yes or keep it.

It's good only if they have money or healthcare cover the cost for them.

I still think abortion should be the last option but I'm not going to interfere their decision anyhow...

Yes, I am neutral to those issues. I personally am for adoption because the baby deserve it.

And I wasn't pleased to find out that Mann_K05 decide to closed her thread about anti -adoptions when I find her thread a good one ...

Yes, me too. I know Mann_K05 don't like debate. She said this in her "pro-life" thread. I need to learn pro and con about adoption and abortion issues why each mother has different feeling. I find disappointed that Mann_K05 wish her thread to lock.

 

[Angel]

But they have no money to buy maternity clothes, etc to carry the baby to 9 months ? Who will support them?

Because it's not fair to the baby and sometimes people jump into parenthood without thinking of the costs and consequences and when one brings another life into this world one must understand that their entire life will be solely dedicated to the well being of that life they created...

 

[Reba]

There are many pro-life organizations who provide homes, schooling, clothing, medical care, and other support for unwed moms. Low income new moms are also eligible for WIC support and food stamps.

Women can buy maternity clothing at Goodwill for cheap prices.

Also, not all pregnant women get abortions for financial reasons. Many of the women who get abortions have enough money to support a pregnancy. So lack of money isn't the reason.

Pregnant women who are still minors are covered by their parents' insurance. Married women are covered by their husbands' insurance. Working women are covered by their employers' insurance. Uninsured pregnant women can apply for Medicaid. There are also clinics that are available for low-income pregnant women.

Why aren't the men paying financial support? Why should the woman go thru her pregnancy alone?

 

[Cheri]

There are many pro-life organizations who provide homes, schooling, clothing, medical care, and other support for unwed moms. Low income new moms are also eligible for WIC support and food stamps.

Women can buy maternity clothing at Goodwill for cheap prices.

Also, not all pregnant women get abortions for financial reasons. Many of the women who get abortions have enough money to support a pregnancy. So lack of money isn't the reason.

Pregnant women who are still minors are covered by their parents' insurance. Married women are covered by their husbands' insurance. Working women are covered by their employers' insurance. Uninsured pregnant women can apply for Medicaid. There are also clinics that are available for low-income pregnant women.

Why aren't the men paying financial support? Why should the woman go thru her pregnancy alone?

!!

The Maternal and Prenatal Care Centers also helps pregnant women, this is where I went to when I was pregnant. Most of the people that works there are volunteer physicians and volunteer nurses, they give prenatal vitamins for just a dollar also provides cribs, toys, maternity clothes, baby items for free, which was donated by those who were pregnant before themselves. I've also donated my babies stuff to them too.

There are a lot of free clinics where pregnant women can go to, just have to do some researching, and they'll find one.

 

[Hwy99]

Is the abortion good choice when mothers can't afford to carry their fetus to 9 months with medical expenses, plus materity clothes, etc when the healthcare don't cover the cost for all expenses?

Of course not.. There is many potientials for the baby to surivive with mother. As Reba said, there are alot of things the poor mother can do. I would just send the baby to adoption if I can't afford for the baby.

Is the adoption good choice when mothers spend medical expenses, maternity clothes, etc to carry their fetus to 9 months before gave their unborn babies up for an adoption?

As just for temporary before the mother are able to send the baby for adoption, yes.

I can see that some people judge mothers's decision for abortion or adoption. I can understand the point that mothers took money for medicine expenses to carry their baby to 9 months before give their unborn babies up for an adoption when the healthcare doesn't cover the costs for all expenses.

In America, we have the Medcaid to help that, also if the father wasn't with mother, then father will pay the children support for the baby, the mother are able to have the food stamps also, as Reba said. I am also poor since I got lay off from my job, and I only have SSI ($623), foods stamps ($144), and the medcaid, but I am healthy right now. I might unable to afford for new clothes or new furnitures, or anything that much, but I am doing just fine.

I guess that US and EU system is different.

Then care to explain what Europe can do to help the poor and single mothers?

 

[fredfam1]

Being a card carrying church person, I feel the Church is to blame
for so many years of sticking its collective head in the sand over
this issue. If this had not been the case, abortion would never
have become the huge business it is. Even if the Church had a
problem with the womans behavior, the baby was innocent and
should have been treated as an innocent, protected and nurtured
by the Church. We have failed these women and are only now
begining to right this wrong. Yeah for volunteers and free clinics
and others who help a baby. And remember this, of ALL the sins
that Jesus dealt with, sexual sin is the one that he was the most
compassionate about and the most tender with. Read the story
of the woman at the well. The Church better stay off its high
horse and save these babies and help these women.

 

[shel90]

Being a card carrying church person, I feel the Church is to blame
for so many years of sticking its collective head in the sand over
this issue. If this had not been the case, abortion would never
have become the huge business it is. Even if the Church had a
problem with the womans behavior, the baby was innocent and
should have been treated as an innocent, protected and nurtured
by the Church. We have failed these women and are only now
begining to right this wrong. Yeah for volunteers and free clinics
and others who help a baby. And remember this, of ALL the sins
that Jesus dealt with, sexual sin is the one that he was the most
compassionate about and the most tender with. Read the story
of the woman at the well. The Church better stay off its high
horse and save these babies and help these women.

So true...I thought the Church was all about love and support for each other but in some situations I dont see that happening. Hope things change for the better.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I think we need to clarify terms.

Definitions from the online medical dictionary/encyclopedia:

ABORTION
An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy by removing the fetus and placenta from the mother's womb.

There are many forms of abortion -- sometimes an abortion occurs on its own (spontaneously), and other times a woman chooses (elects) to end the pregnancy.

MISCARRIAGE
A miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a fetus before the 20th week of pregnancy. (Pregnancy losses after the 20th week are called preterm deliveries.)

A miscarriage may also be called a "spontaneous abortion." This refers to naturally occurring events, not elective or therapeutic abortion procedures, which a woman may choose to have done.


You can get further details from:

MedlinePlus: Medical Encyclopedia

I would like to make clear how different between abortion and miscarriage.

The doctor gave the mothers drugs to push their dead fetus out of their womb, is an abortion, not miscarriage.

The doctor removed embryo or fetus out of mother's womb to save mother's risk life threatening is an abortion, not miscarriage.

The mothers lost a lot of vaginal bleeding and tried to save their fetus's life but too late is a miscarriage, not abortion.

The mothers are unexpect to lost their fetus and too late to save fetus's life is a miscarriage.

They lost their fetus itself without doctor's help is a miscarriage.

"spontaneous abortion" is the same word as miscarriage. They use word "spontaneous abortion" as medical word.

Abortion means forced termination of pregnancy.
Miscarriage means unexpected termination of pregnancy.

This is a difference.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Because it's not fair to the baby and sometimes people jump into parenthood without thinking of the costs and consequences and when one brings another life into this world one must understand that their entire life will be solely dedicated to the well being of that life they created...

But what if some of sex protection like BC doesn't work when they decide for not want to make a baby yet?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

There are many pro-life organizations who provide homes, schooling, clothing, medical care, and other support for unwed moms. Low income new moms are also eligible for WIC support and food stamps.

Sure, but it doesn't always best solution for mothers and children due poverty which is unfair for the children.

I can see that pro life supporters consider abortion as a murder, selfish or whatever when they know there're a lot of children died in the world thru abuse, starvation, murder, misery etc everyday?

Women can buy maternity clothing at Goodwill for cheap prices.

Should women force to buy maternity clothing no matter either how it cost when they decide to not keep their baby?

Also, not all pregnant women get abortions for financial reasons. Many of the women who get abortions have enough money to support a pregnancy. So lack of money isn't the reason.

I know from my experience from look at my sister, my family, my childhood, my few friends... Yes, lack of money is the mainly reason. My mother & Roman Catholic Grandma often said to me: "You should make sure that you have enough money to provide your child, if not, then don't start to create a child because childhood is meant to be a happy time! That's why we wait for 7 years before started a family.

I regretted myself for persudaded my teenage sister to not abort her first child but suggest her to give her baby up for an adoption without think twice. All what I do is care her unborn baby, not her and her body and how she feel. She changed her mind in last minute for not want to give her child up for an adoption. We knew straight way that she will make her child unhappy and wish to listen my Dad's suggestion for abortion in first place. I can see that I forced to ruin her life because she listen my and Dad's 2nd wife's suggestion over adoption, not Dad's suggestion... I learn my own mistake and never judge mother's decision ever again but respect their decision without look down on them or label them when they decide for abortion or adoption because it's their own body, mind and feeling, not me. I only judge mothers who abort dozen of times, that's all.

Pregnant women who are still minors are covered by their parents' insurance.

Married women are covered by their husbands' insurance.

What if their work/employ parents don't have insurance?

Working women are covered by their employers' insurance.

Would they lost their employer's insurance when they are out of work?

Uninsured pregnant women can apply for Medicaid. There are also clinics that are available for low-income pregnant women.

But not for workers and employee mother to be, right?

Why aren't the men paying financial support? Why should the woman go thru her pregnancy alone?

I know they are really bastard and selfish. Exactly, I am asking you the same why should the woman has to go thru with ther pregnancy alone then? Can they acheive to cope with their child alone? Like what I said before that each woman is different. Some is strong and can cope with child alone, some not.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Of course not.. There is many potientials for the baby to surivive with mother. As Reba said, there are alot of things the poor mother can do.

See my response on Reba's post.

I would just send the baby to adoption if I can't afford for the baby.

Yes it's good choice but it's not alway easy for mothers to make their own decision either abortion or adoption is choice or not.

As just for temporary before the mother are able to send the baby for adoption, yes.

Can you image that they have to spend medical, clothes expenses on unborn baby when they plan to not keep their baby when medicare do not cover all of expenses for them? I learn from other thread where some mothers come from is take money from adoptive parents for medical expenses, they carried up to 9 months to be survive themselves.

In America, we have the Medcaid to help that, also if the father wasn't with mother, then father will pay the children support for the baby, the mother are able to have the food stamps also, as Reba said. I am also poor since I got lay off from my job, and I only have SSI ($623), foods stamps ($144), and the medcaid, but I am healthy right now. I might unable to afford for new clothes or new furnitures, or anything that much, but I am doing just fine.

How could mothers acheive to fulfill their child's wish with stamps, SSI, etc?

Then care to explain what Europe can do to help the poor and single mothers?

Thank you for ask me question.

They get social assistance and housing allowance from government. They have to live in social apartment where social department pay the rent and allowance for them. All what they do is get allowance from Government to manage with foods, utility bill and clothes. They also received social allowance for each child from Government, too when their fathers are fail to pay child support for them out of reason is no money - out of work - escape out of Europe...
Depend on their income if they work part time. If unemploy mothers, then full social assistance.

Abortion - they need reason in writing under doctor's order.. then healthcare cover the cost of abortion full.

Adoption - social welfare gave mother to be the limited how much they spend on materity clothes. (medical expenses for pregnancy are cover full by heathcare). They have to keep recipes with stamp from babycare shop until 8 weeks after child's birth. The mothers can make their decision within 8 weeks after birth either they want to keep their baby or not. After 8 weeks, baby go to CPS and recipes go to social welfare...

I also keep the recipes how much I spent on baby expenses (pram, bed, sheets, newborn clothes, maternity clothes, etc. up to one year for Tax Refund, too.

Like what I said that US and EU system is different.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Reba's post
Pregnant women who are still minors are covered by their parents' insurance.

You know some parents force their minors to abort their baby. What's about them? What's reason for?

 

[Reba]

You know some parents force their minors to abort their baby. What's about them? What's reason for?

What does that have to do with the parents' insurance coverage?

 

[Reba]

I would like to make clear how different between abortion and miscarriage.

The doctor gave the mothers drugs to push their dead fetus out of their womb, is an abortion, not miscarriage.

The doctor removed embryo or fetus out of mother's womb to save mother's risk life threatening is an abortion, not miscarriage.

The mothers lost a lot of vaginal bleeding and tried to save their fetus's life but too late is a miscarriage, not abortion.

The mothers are unexpect to lost their fetus and too late to save fetus's life is a miscarriage.

They lost their fetus itself without doctor's help is a miscarriage.

"spontaneous abortion" is the same word as miscarriage. They use word "spontaneous abortion" as medical word.

Abortion means forced termination of pregnancy.
Miscarriage means unexpected termination of pregnancy.

This is a difference.

I gave the medical terminology, not my opinion, and I gave the reference.

Where is your reference, please?

 

[Reba]

Sure, but it doesn't always best solution for mothers and children due poverty which is unfair for the children.

I can see that pro life supporters consider abortion as a murder, selfish or whatever when they know there're a lot of children died in the world thru abuse, starvation, murder, misery etc everyday?

All those things continue to happen, unrelated to abortion. Do you have any statistical proof that children die worldwide from abuse, starvation, and murder just because they weren't aborted?

Should women force to buy maternity clothing no matter either how it cost when they decide to not keep their baby?

I've seen many young ladies now who don't even buy maternity clothing. They just pop out of their clothes and don't care. I guess that's the new style. So, no one is "forced" to buy maternity clothing. Also, sometimes friends and relatives share maternity clothing.

I know from my experience from look at my sister, my family, my childhood, my few friends... Yes, lack of money is the mainly reason. My mother & Roman Catholic Grandma often said to me: "You should make sure that you have enough money to provide your child, if not, then don't start to create a child because childhood is meant to be a happy time! That's why we wait for 7 years before started a family.

Delaying conception, and aborting after conception are two totally different actions.

She changed her mind in last minute for not want to give her child up for an adoption.

Sometimes that happens. There are no guarantees with life.

We knew straight way that she will make her child unhappy and wish to listen my Dad's suggestion for abortion in first place. I can see that I forced to ruin her life because she listen my and Dad's 2nd wife's suggestion over adoption, not Dad's suggestion...

No, you didn't ruin her life. She made her own decisions. When she decided to keep the child, you supported her and did the best you could.

I learn my own mistake and never judge mother's decision ever again but respect their decision without look down on them or label them when they decide for abortion or adoption because it's their own body, mind and feeling, not me. I only judge mothers who abort dozen of times, that's all.

Either you judge them or you don't; you can't have it both ways.

What if their work/employ parents don't have insurance?

They can use Medicaid and WIC, and other state programs.

Would they lost their employer's insurance when they are out of work?

Depends on the job.

But not for workers and employee mother to be, right?

Why not?

I know they are really bastard and selfish. Exactly, I am asking you the same why should the woman has to go thru with ther pregnancy alone then?

She shouldn't go thru it alone. The man should be legally forced to financially support the woman and child.

Some is strong and can cope with child alone, some not.

It doesn't matter if the woman is strong or not. The man should still pay support. No woman should be left to cope alone.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

What does that have to do with the parents' insurance coverage?

See my first quoted post toward your post #554. Is it reason why they force their minors to abort is because they don´t have insurance coverage?