Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[VanG]

WARNING: INFORMATION AND LINKS MAYBE UPSETING

Sometimes it would. If the fetus has anencephaly it has no cerebrum - the most advance brain part that thinks. A baby with anencephaly does not have a full working brain and can't have a brain scan (EEG) because the cerebrum is missing (and usually the top of the head, skull, and scalp). So brain dead according to EEG. Some women pregnant with a baby with anencephaly have a abortion. Others delivery early with drugs. Others have the baby without drugs and then wait for the baby to die after birth.

From Anencephaly Awareness:

Anencephaly is known as a neural tube defect. One of the most common occurring in about 1 out of every 1000 pregnancies. It is the failure of the neural tube to close properly resulting in the absence of the major portion of the brain and the top part of the skull. - When the cephalic or head end of the tube fails to close properly, it results in the absence of the major portion of the brain, skull and at times scalp. Infants are born without a fore-brain (the thinking and coordinating area)and are usually blind, deaf, unconcious and are unable to feel pain. Infants may exhibit reflex actions, such as respiration and responses to touch and sound.

From Anencephaly Support Foundation: Management of a Pregnancy With an Anencephalic Baby

Directive 15 of the Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Hospitals (3) states "Every procedure whose sole immediate effect is the termination of pregnancy before viability is direct abortion." The deliberate termination of pregnancy involving an anencephalic child prior to viability would thus be a direct abortion and therefore morally unacceptable. This is so even though the survival of the viable anencephalic child would typically be only 1-7 days.

Another problem is acardia - a baby without a heart. Usually babies with acardia are a identical twin. One twin has has a normal heart unless damaged because of the sick twin. The sick baby's heart is not working but killing it is abortion.

A relative was pregnant with twins. One baby had acardia. Doctors also thought the baby had anencephaly - instead the baby had microcephaly = a very very small brain. Her religious leader said killing the baby was a abortion. The babies died very early without abortion. For respect and privacy I won't write more. But some problems are worse than imagaination even.

Wow, you gave me link and I looked at it. Broken my heart.

Everyone has their own opinion. Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. I do want to share that any living thing that is starting to grow in mother's womb. I would go against for it except for health purpose. This can be never solve at all.

 

[Reba]

Yes, all that fact the website you posted all true. But did not say that the drugs they make for people with AIDS and HIV only help prolong their life to live a little bit longer but not really 100% a cure. So, the cure drug is not yet found yet....

Please read this again:

"...the chances of the baby being infected can be reduced to a rate of 1 percent. HIV infection of newborns has been almost eradicated in the United States because of appropriate treatment.

...A study sponsored by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) in Uganda found a highly effective and safe drug for preventing transmission of HIV from an infected mother to her newborn...."

The babies don't need a cure because they don't have HIV.

 

[Reba]

...If it is a law, then you do not have a choice otherwise you will be in a Federal prison with a torment life. That's why we did not want anyone to go to a prison because it's our freedom that we have in our country....

Even when abortion was generally illegal, the mothers weren't thrown into Federal prisons. The person performing the abortion was arrested, not the mother. Also, abortions were allowed to protect the lives of the mothers.

 

[Reba]

Fredfam is not interferring with anyone's life ("leave them alone") or crossing any lines; she is expressing her own personal opinion on the matter, duh!

 

[fredfam1]

He didn't get a chance to grow up to be a young man.

But he did get a chance to have an impact on the people
in this world that his life touched. No one who knew him
will ever be the same. And what they do with that
experiance will determine weather or not they make
their lives be worth something positive in this world.

My best friend had a baby with a terminal illness. I was
determined to find a treatment for him. I research for
hours on end day after day for 2 1/2 years... until he
died. I found a treatment. But no doctor was willing
to try it. I called every scientist doing research in this
area. That was 5 years ago and now that treatment
is being tested. Was this babies life in vain. People
told them they should have never gotten pregnant.
I loved that baby while he was here. They loved their
baby while he was here. Now he is gone and other
peoples lives were impacted. I do medical research
because of him. There may be a treatment soon
because of him. All our lives were touched because
of him. Weather it was a positive experiance or a
negative one is dependent on the individual.

 

[Reba]

He didn't get a chance to grow up to be a young man.

But he did get a chance to have an impact on the people
in this world that his life touched. No one who knew him
will ever be the same. And what they do with that
experiance will determine weather or not they make
their lives be worth something positive in this world.

My best friend had a baby with a terminal illness. I was
determined to find a treatment for him. I research for
hours on end day after day for 2 1/2 years... until he
died. I found a treatment. But no doctor was willing
to try it. I called every scientist doing research in this
area. That was 5 years ago and now that treatment
is being tested. Was this babies life in vain. People
told them they should have never gotten pregnant.
I loved that baby while he was here. They loved their
baby while he was here. Now he is gone and other
peoples lives were impacted. I do medical research
because of him. There may be a treatment soon
because of him. All our lives were touched because
of him. Weather it was a positive experiance or a
negative one is dependent on the individual.

 

[webexplorer]

Even when abortion was generally illegal, the mothers weren't thrown into Federal prisons. The person performing the abortion was arrested, not the mother. Also, abortions were allowed to protect the lives of the mothers.

It is not about a doctor. Some mothers aborted their own baby somewhere, and they were caught and sent to prison. It happened in NC, Texas, and unsure in Maine.

 

[webexplorer]

My best friend had a baby with a terminal illness. I was
determined to find a treatment for him. I research for
hours on end day after day for 2 1/2 years... until he
died. I found a treatment. But no doctor was willing
to try it. I called every scientist doing research in this
area. That was 5 years ago and now that treatment
is being tested. Was this babies life in vain. People
told them they should have never gotten pregnant.
I loved that baby while he was here. They loved their
baby while he was here. Now he is gone and other
peoples lives were impacted. I do medical research
because of him. There may be a treatment soon
because of him. All our lives were touched because
of him. Weather it was a positive experiance or a
negative one is dependent on the individual.

Many doctors and FDA do not give a shit about it or even stem cells. You did research, and it was hard work. You did a good job, but the problem is the doctors. What's the doctors' problem? Not enough profit?

It is just the same thing for the armies in Iraq and, they had trauma and injured. The doctors don't give a damn about it, and they do select a very few of them for the specialized treatments. We have seen on 20/20 or 48 Hours or 60 Minutes etc. Reba, don't expect to believe that all armies will have the same treatment. I saw on the news and I could not believe it. It is really not fair. The doctors are supposed to respect & help them what they done for our country. Next time, they won't do it for us if they don't get the same treatment.

 

[Kaitin]

Wow, you gave me link and I looked at it. Broken my heart.

Everyone has their own opinion. Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. I do want to share that any living thing that is starting to grow in mother's womb. I would go against for it except for health purpose. This can be never solve at all.

I'm sorry your heart broke. I know - my relative with the twins was pregnant many years ago and now I still hurt to look at the pictures and information. So very sad.

VanG. I always enjoy your posts. You seem so kind to all even with disagreement. The animals at the vet are lucky.

I know abortion is a hot topic. I don't try to change people's mind. But I think important to remember so many experiences of others - problems before you maybe never know. My dad explained "anencephaly" and "acardia" (the baby's problems) to me with his medical textbooks and so much loving care. I never thought a baby could have so much serious problems. I try to remember my ignorance and not judge too harshly - maybe disagree but not harshly. The whole subject of abortion is sad.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

If it becomes an anti-abortion law, all women have no right to have an abortion anytime and anywhere.

Let's say that a woman's baby died in her womb. She really cannot have it removed because of the law. It is really illegal for you to think that she has a good reason to have it removed. Her dead baby will be rotten in her womb, and her body will get infected and die from it. That's true sad part.

Please do not make a mistake for you to allow our Congress people to create the law.

That's why we leave to all mothers/fathers to make a choice, and they have their rights. Plus, we have no right to interfere them.

Exactly...

If the abortion become illegal which mean that women are not allow to abort their baby due life-threatening reasons (like fetus already died in mother's womb or risk mother's life).

That's why I am for that abortion as a legal to protect mother's risk life.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yupp I agree with you, I only support the abortion if it risks mother's life.

which mean is you are pro-choice like me who support abortion due risk mother's life or fetus dead in mother's womb is a life-threatening. If you support pro-life which mean is you don't support the mother who force to abort their fetus to save mothers' risk life.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You made your own choice. We do not want to interfere your life as long as you are happy what you have made your choice to have a baby or not. That's no law. If it is a law, then you do not have a choice otherwise you will be in a Federal prison with a torment life. That's why we did not want anyone to go to a prison because it's our freedom that we have in our country. We cannot say yes or no because of the conflict issues. I can understand what you mean, but it is the best to leave them alone to make their own choice. We cannot cross their line.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yes, all that fact the website you posted all true. But did not say that the drugs they make for people with AIDS and HIV only help prolong their life to live a little bit longer but not really 100% a cure. So, the cure drug is not yet found yet. They are still fighting a long battle to find a cure just like they are doing for cancer. But I do hope they will find a cure. So if that happen, that would be great. But remember aids and HIV still a death sentence. It don't mean they be living a normal life. I saw a child they did on TV talking about aids. Because his mother was a drug user and passed on to her child. She left the kid and locked up until someone took that sweet 8 year old boy to help him, and learned he had aids and his cells don't look great, his chance to survive were very slim, medication he took didn't work for him. He didn't get a chance to grow up to be a young man. So it sad that most people are still care of kids who have aids and not want to be around them.

*nodding agreement sadly*

 

[Hwy99]

But what if the doctor say her health is at risk? I am pretty sure the doctor would sugery remove a dead child inside the womb it don't just rot away and disappear. Let say, a doctor did a DNA test and gentic test to make sure a child don't have down or missing limbs or mental retardation. And the woman want to abort that or let say the woman have to abort because her doctor says she dying of cancer or lupus. it that fair to bring a child into the world? You have to remember when there a hard tough desicion to make with a doctor,, it really hard thing to do. In life everything is a big risk.

Hmm.. Re-read my post, I said that I support abortion if it risk the mother's life. I believe it's not fair to prohibit mothers from saving their life. Miscarriage is like self-defense.

 

[Hwy99]

which mean is you are pro-choice like me who support abortion due risk mother's life or fetus dead in mother's womb is a life-threatening. If you support pro-life which mean is you don't support the mother who force to abort their fetus to save mothers' risk life.

Hmm.. To me, the miscarriage is kinda in middle way of pro-choice or pro-life, abort the baby, you save mother's life (one dead). Let the baby come out, you kill mother (one dead). How can that go in pro-choice or pro-life?

 

[fredfam1]

Hmm.. To me, the miscarriage is kinda in middle way of pro-choice or pro-life, abort the baby, you save mother's life (one dead). Let the baby come out, you kill mother (one dead). How can that go in pro-choice or pro-life?


You are correct. If we followed all laws already in place I think this would
be refered to as, Justifiable Homicide.

 

[webexplorer]

Hmm.. To me, the miscarriage is kinda in middle way of pro-choice or pro-life, abort the baby, you save mother's life (one dead). Let the baby come out, you kill mother (one dead). How can that go in pro-choice or pro-life?

Abortion is always risk. But, unless the doctors are doing a good job and understand how to do the right thing. A few doctors do not have a license and that could kill some mothers. That's why we need to make sure that the doctors have the license in order to protect their mother's life. It is not that simple for us to proof it as long as we get some words from someone who had the abortion which mean that her doctor is doing a good job.

It is the most stupid thing in the world by letting them to have a sex in the first place without a final agreement. You saw a dead baby in the picture which is very wrong. I have seen some horrible graphic pictures. Those people have no right to do that because they interfere people's rights and their privacy. I believe that a couple of weeks old should be allowed to be aborted unless if there is something wrong with the baby's health. Then, they make a decision...

If you really want to save a baby with a serious health problem, you will have to pay so much money for all of the life treatment. The doctors will send you hundreds of bills that will make you suffer. If you give the baby away for an adoption, you would mortify to give it away with your own blood into someone's strange life. That child become adult will find you and ask you why in the world you do that to her/him. This adult will be very poor because she/he forces to pay the terrible health bills. A special wheelchair cost a least 50,000 dollars, an oxygen equipment cost probably 20,000 dollars, medicines cost probably 100,000 dollars per year, doctors' bills with several appointments are skyrocket. That's why it made her/him suffer to deal with the problems.

Abortion cost about 500 dollars or you pay over one million of dollars for all health treatments and insurance bills. Which choice do you have?

 

[Hwy99]

You are correct. If we followed all laws already in place I think this would
be refered to as, Justifiable Homicide.

Yeah.. My opinion, the abortion option is for those mother who suffer by miscarriage. It's the mother who suffer the miscarriage have right to choose to save the baby's life or mother's life.

Abortion is always risk. But, unless the doctors are doing a good job and understand how to do the right thing. A few doctors do not have a license and that could kill some mothers. That's why we need to make sure that the doctors have the license in order to protect their mother's life. It is not that simple for us to proof it as long as we get some words from someone who had the abortion which mean that her doctor is doing a good job.

Yeah of course, always trust a cerifacted(sp?) doctors or they will not do the good job as expected.

It is the most stupid thing in the world by letting them to have a sex in the first place without a final agreement. You saw a dead baby in the picture which is very wrong. I have seen some horrible graphic pictures. Those people have no right to do that because they interfere people's rights and their privacy. I believe that a couple of weeks old should be allowed to be aborted unless if there is something wrong with the baby's health. Then, they make a decision...

I agree with you, it's very stupid for parents to have sex without the "safe sex" because they are just screwing their life up. My best friends had sex and suffered by miscarriage, luckily they abort the baby. It happen more than just once, but nothing I can do about it.. I kept tell them to use the condom or birth control, they told me that they are lazy. How lame excuse, ne..

If you really want to save a baby with a serious health problem, you will have to pay so much money for all of the life treatment. The doctors will send you hundreds of bills that will make you suffer. If you give the baby away for an adoption, you would mortify to give it away with your own blood into someone's strange life. That child become adult will find you and ask you why in the world you do that to her/him. This adult will be very poor because she/he forces to pay the terrible health bills. A special wheelchair cost a least 50,000 dollars, an oxygen equipment cost probably 20,000 dollars, medicines cost probably 100,000 dollars per year, doctors' bills with several appointments are skyrocket. That's why it made her/him suffer to deal with the problems.

Abortion cost about 500 dollars or you pay over one million of dollars for all health treatments and insurance bills. Which choice do you have?

I agree with you, if a mother who suffer by miscarriage want to save baby's life will make it more worse. The best thing for a mother who suffer the miscarriage is just abort the baby.

 

[Reba]

I think we need to clarify terms.

Definitions from the online medical dictionary/encyclopedia:

ABORTION
An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy by removing the fetus and placenta from the mother's womb.

There are many forms of abortion -- sometimes an abortion occurs on its own (spontaneously), and other times a woman chooses (elects) to end the pregnancy.

MISCARRIAGE
A miscarriage is the spontaneous loss of a fetus before the 20th week of pregnancy. (Pregnancy losses after the 20th week are called preterm deliveries.)

A miscarriage may also be called a "spontaneous abortion." This refers to naturally occurring events, not elective or therapeutic abortion procedures, which a woman may choose to have done.


You can get further details from:

MedlinePlus: Medical Encyclopedia

 

[fredfam1]

I believe that a couple of weeks old should be allowed to be aborted unless if there is something wrong with the baby's health. Then, they make a decision...


The problem with this is that it is not medically safe to do an abortion
until the baby is 21 weeks along. That is 3 months. No doctor wants
to do an abortion before that time because the uterus is still very
soft and there is a high risk of perforating the uterus. If that happens
the womans intestines will be sucked into the vacume and she will
very likely die.