Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice?

[Reba]

...I know from my American co-workers that a lot of father fake their social numbers for aviod to pay child support.

How do they do that without getting caught?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yupp... Reba is right... Parents DO have right to force their daughter/s to abort the baby if they are under the age of 18. That happened to my cousin's girlfriend. Her parents forced her to abort and refuse allow my cousin to see her, and her parents have been putting my cousin in the court many times trying to punish my cousin, but they always lost lost lost. Later my cousin and his girlfriend fed up and ran away to Missouri from Washington till his girlfriend became 18 then they came back. It was really disappoiment that they failed to save the baby from her parents..

Unfortunlately yes... sadly...

I have seen some debated threads that they alway stated "I as parent has the right to force my children to ........because they are not 18 years old yet". I don´t agree to treat young adult children as immaturity children until they are legal age. Those thread, I create is one of many examples:
http://www.alldeaf.com/parenting/27...ainst-legal-age-boyfriend-minor-daughter.html

The parents often threat their children which I disagree to. No wonder why the teenagers rebel against their parents.

Yes I remember Ader ranted in some lock thread about their bad experiences with their parents for force something what they don´t want. Some ADers think the parents alway have right which I am against because the parents often make mistake decision when they thought the best for their children.

Many parents use the law as an excuse to press the charge against legal age guy/girl for involve with their 17 years old daughters or sons because they don´t like them.

And more examples... I am total speechless when I heard those word "I as parent has the right to do what I want with my children because they are still my responsible or not legal age yet"... Where is trust relationship bond?

 

[Reba]

Why should I repeat to ask them when I didn't forget how bad experience ADers had. We were there to support them in several lock threads in the past. I do not need to ask them because I didn't ignore and forget their past experiences.

Well, if you don't ask the parents why they forced their daughters to get abortions, they how do you know the reason was lack of insurance?

I say no more further.

I'm curious how you "know" that all these many parents are forcing their daughters to get abortions for lack of insurance. Did you take a survey?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

How do they do that without getting caught?

All what I know from my American co-worker that fake the name and social number to aviod for pay child support is common.

What I shared the story about my German co-worker´s ex-husband who also faked his name and social number, too in my previous posts. (I guess it´s something do with society or security). That´s why he cannot renew his passport for travel to Germany because he know they would require his old passport to renew his passport, that´s why. All what he do is stay in America as long as he alive because he don´t want to get caught.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Well, if you don't ask the parents why they forced their daughters to get abortions, they how do you know the reason was lack of insurance?



I'm curious how you "know" that all these many parents are forcing their daughters to get abortions for lack of insurance. Did you take a survey?

I support ADers for what their parents did to them, not their parents, period. I do not need to ask the parents why because I know what they did pain wrong to damage their children´s good esteem.

What I said about lack of insurance is a suggestion of me because I learn from other threads that million Americans don´t have insurance for the family... That´s how 12 years old boy have to die because his parents cannot afford to acheive expensive insurance.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

^ What she stated above is the entire truth, forcing abortion against the wishes of the pregnancy mother It's just beyond any more words I can say about how wrong is it and it is wrong.

Think about it, A parent drag a daughter out of the house, take her to an abortion clinic, putting her onto an operation room bed and injecting her with at least 3 shots so she would not feel much of pains but she'll be wide awake to see everything like I was, kills the unborn baby, put the unborn baby in a garbage bag and then throw in trash can-- a baby can be 4 to 9 months. My unborn baby was 5 months, sex of the unborn baby is unknown.

Now you tell me would you agree that parents has that right to force abortion on their daughters?

Yes I did not forget how bad experience, you had through when you told us the story in other thread few years ago.

Yes, it´s very wrong of parents to force their children to abort or give up their baby for an adoption that´s because their children are not legal age yet.

I would never, never, never do that to my daughters or sons if they become teenage parents.

 

[Hwy99]

Umm I think you misunderstood my post hon, I meant "disagree" on this part where I quote it below And it has nothing to do with whether or not you agree on that...I already knew where you stand on "abortion"...

Ohhh guess I am misunderstood lol... Don't worry about it..

Yeah, that's what happening to many young girls out there... I feel bad for your cousin, it's must been a sad experience for him to go through...

Yupp I agree.. My cousin helped her as best as he can because he love her..

Oh no, I understood you just fine, it seem I didn't make myself clear in my post..

It's allright

No problem. I wasn't only speaking about your post, but others who thinks parents have that right to make a choice based on their personal reasons, I was only represents my view on how it is wrong to force abortion upon their daughters.

Yupp I don't like when parents force their children to abort... It's too extremely..

If you mean legal rights, then sadly, yes, parents might be able to get away with that.

Yupp that's what I mean..

If you mean moral rights, then, no, parents don't have that right.

Abortion as moral? I don't know about that...

It might be legal but it's not right.

*nods* Agree.

 

[Hwy99]

Unfortunlately yes... sadly...

Yupp sadly...

I have seen some debated threads that they alway stated "I as parent has the right to force my children to ........because they are not 18 years old yet". I don´t agree to treat young adult children as immaturity children until they are legal age. Those thread, I create is one of many examples:

http://www.alldeaf.com/parenting/27...ainst-legal-age-boyfriend-minor-daughter.html

Wow that thread is really big for this kind of subject.. It's really sad that some of parents don't want to be open to be understanding each other with their own children.. I agree with you, we treat them like child, they will act/feel like child. I never believe that someone who become 18, proof! Mature, no more immature! It can be even before 18, even before 15, who knows. It's depends on the individuals...

The parents often threat their children which I disagree to. No wonder why the teenagers rebel against their parents.

Yupp, more pressure or conservate(sp?) make the children feel overwhelming and feel like they cannot follow too much..

Yes I remember Ader ranted in some lock thread about their bad experiences with their parents for force something what they don´t want. Some ADers think the parents alway have right which I am against because the parents often make mistake decision when they thought the best for their children.

It's important for parents to get know about their own children, knowing their dreams, their ownselves beings, etc. then parents will know what to do with them.. Parents can't just ignore their children's role and tell them what to do whatever parents think was better or it will not work for the children..

Many parents use the law as an excuse to press the charge against legal age guy/girl for involve with their 17 years old daughters or sons because they don´t like them.

Ohh yeah I notice that pretty often.. The laws doesn't always help people or children or parents to get any better, the only way they get better is to know each other, understanding each other, then they will get along well.. That's what I believe..

And more examples... I am total speechless when I heard those word "I as parent has the right to do what I want with my children because they are still my responsible or not legal age yet"... Where is trust relationship bond?

Exactly... What about understanding the children, try to be in team with the children, etc... I understand how you feel crystal clear..

 

[GarnetTigerMom]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that...I'm aware that some birth control does cause weight gain, it happened to a friend of mine too, but I dunno about blood clots or other things but ya know most medicines can cause side effects and foods too and sometimes their bodies are not able to use it properly but however the side effects usually are not severe and are not common, like for example, vaccine does not appear to cause any serious side effects but there are warnings of side effects and it does not mean vaccine is completely free of side effects..Some could have an allergic reaction to birth control, condoms, vaccines, medicines, food etc while few others don't...so I guess it's depends on how their body is able to handle it... but I agree with you there are some medicines or birth controls that may not help all but some..

I know I'm going way off the topic here, so my apology!...

ah you don't have to apology for expressing your feelings and concern. It okay to discuss more than just going off the topic but I be happy to listen.

 

[Reba]

All what I know from my American co-worker that fake the name and social number to aviod for pay child support is common.

What I shared the story about my German co-worker´s ex-husband who also faked his name and social number, too in my previous posts. (I guess it´s something do with society or security). That´s why he cannot renew his passport for travel to Germany because he know they would require his old passport to renew his passport, that´s why. All what he do is stay in America as long as he alive because he don´t want to get caught.

Is he in the military?

 

[Reba]

...I do not need to ask the parents why because I know what they did pain wrong to damage their children´s good esteem.

Then why did you bring it up?

What I said about lack of insurance is a suggestion of me because I learn from other threads that million Americans don´t have insurance for the family... That´s how 12 years old boy have to die because his parents cannot afford to acheive expensive insurance.

So how do you infer from that that parents force their daughters to get abortions because they lack insurance?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

True in some cases about the birth control but it never really 100% full protection. There are so many different type of birth control pills some are strong and other are low dose can be weak. But one thing for sure that birth control won't protect you from STDs, HIV and aids. Even pregnancy can still happen with the pills because it happens to me.

True, some of my friends have similar experience, too.

53,60% of 5,726 become unwanted pregnant after using form of contraception.

Reasons given for having abortions in the United States

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I do deny that the reason all abuse and death of children is simply because their mothers didn't abort them.

All? Can you show me where have I say to blame all mothers for not abort their fetus? I really has no idea why you misinterpreted my posts to confuse this thread since my first post #554.

I do not see anything that I say anything to accuss the mother for not abort their baby because they abuse their babies but show you the fact that fetus removal and abuse child to death are not the same thing because pro life supporters consider abortion (fetus removal) as a murder, selfish, etc when they know there're a lot of children died in the world thru abuse, starvation, murder, misery, etc everyday?. That's exact sentence I posted in my post #554 - "I can see that pro life supporters consider abortion as a murder, selfish or whatever when they know there're a lot of children died in the world thru abuse, starvation, murder, misery etc everyday?"

http://www.alldeaf.com/875190-post554.html

It's unfair to abuse children, whether they are "wanted" or not.

Please stop to misinterpret my post again. All what I am try to ask either it's right to force the children to suffer of pain or not?

What would you do about children who were very wanted by their parents but were abused anyway?

Yeah, many people are hurried to become parents because they want to be young parents or want to be parents or think baby is easy to take care of etc. Afterward they realized that it's not easy job as parents and feel being burden... end to hurt their babies.

Instead of killing the children in their mommy's uterus, why not focus on preventing abuse?

I respectfully disagree with your view as "killing the children in their mother's uterus" but fetus removal. My view is abortion as a remove an embryo or fetus from the womb.

I personally strongly beleieve that a child should be born with full love and attention when the couple are ready to be parents and accept the fully responsiblity to bring their child up with loving enivornment. Due my past experience, I know what I am saying... Yes many children who suffers bad childhood end up having MANY problems.

How is it better to kill them before they are born then after they are born?

Like what I ask you in my first post #554.

Which do you prefer to remove a fetus or let child suffer pain as abuse/starvation to death by abusive parents in the world? If I am being ask to have two choice "Remove a fetus OR force child suffer pain"? My choice is remove a fetus.

We can't force women to raise a child if she becomes unwanted pregnant and don't have anything, financially, psychologically etc to raise a child, don't we? I know your answer is adoption but it's not easy for the mother to force to give her baby up for adoption or force to abort... It's very hard choice, she force to make for her unborn child's sake. Yes I would say it's very tough to raise up a child.

It's not easy to find a home. It's very very tough to raise up a kid if the parents don't have any resources at all. In that case, instead of giving birth to a child and making his childhood a living hell, it's better to abort or adoption.

There are no "good" abortions. The only acceptable (but not "good") abortions are those that are performed to save a mother's life when there is no other alternative.

Then you are pro-choice like me who support to save mother's life.

So how many times does a person have to murder or rape before you judge that as "wrong?" Once isn't enough?

They support women and children who need help. If a woman has enough money she doesn't need to bother with WIC. You wanted to know about women who needed support during their pregnancies. WIC is one option for pregnant women who need help. I don't know what more you want.

I support that pregnant women should treat equal no matter either they are worker, employee, unemployee or whatever.

It doesn't mean that I have enough money because I am an employee. I cannot afford to cover the birth deliver cost, etc like the link, you provided at other thread last week...
The True Cost of Prenatal Care and Delivery - Financial planning -

The cost is higher than my month income. It's good for millionarie but not for worker/employee.

If they have enough coverage, then why would they want Medicaid?

See the link, I took from your post at other thread. Do you think worker/employee can acheive those cost?

Can you explain why million don't have insurance coverage?

What does it teach the sons if they see that their dads aren't required to support them? It teaches them that they won't need to support their future children.

I am not saying all but some like what I told you the story about my co-worker's son *S*'s half brothers copied what their father did.

Should women just let men get away with it?

Why should women force men to play father to their children when men don't want to be father then?

If they don't want to be father then is their loss!!!!!

All what women are happy to have their children what they want, why should they worry about their children's father for? Should they stress/hassle with their children's father for?

If mother want to keep a baby then is her choice and if a guy who made a woman pregnant, don't want to be responsiblity father then is his choice. IMO.

A man is helpless if a woman decide to abort or give their baby up for adoption because a man want to be father.

What's the difference about them?

It would be nicer when a man is willing to accept his responsiblity as father and pay child support to woman whom he doesn't love.

It's up to each woman for demand child support from man or not. We have law for child support IF woman demand child support from man. A man will get in trouble for disown the law.

What "good" reason?

Why should I repeat my post since I explained the reasons why I support abortion at 2 days ago?

What about the child? What are his or her rights? Don't they have the right to a higher standard of living that could be provided by child support?

What about mother and her safety?

If mother want or don't want is her decision/choice.

Many divorced mothers respect child's choice for want to see his/her father time to time as long as father pay child support and have visit rights.

What about society? Doesn't society have the right to expect fathers to provide support for their own children instead of taxpayers paying for support?

:jaw: I wasn't realized that you complaint about taxpayer paying for child support but you didn't complaint about taxpayers paying for death penalty, don't you? (I know your past posts that you are death penalty supporter).

Don't you have a heart for single mother for get assistance from government when the fathers disappeared or mother don't want to do anything with her ex to near them due her bad experience?

I prefer that the law be on the child's side.

I prefer to leave mother's choice because it's her who is responsible for raise a child, not government.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Well, if you don't ask the parents why they forced their daughters to get abortions, they how do you know the reason was lack of insurance?

I explained the reason why I suspect is because of 12 years old boy who have to die because parents can't afford insurance in my previous post and I repeat my post here that lack of insurance is a suggestion of me.

I'm curious how you "know" that all these many parents are forcing their daughters to get abortions for lack of insurance. Did you take a survey?

Where have I say all? And, what I suspect is a suggestion, not accusation. This is a difference.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yupp sadly...

Wow that thread is really big for this kind of subject.. It's really sad that some of parents don't want to be open to be understanding each other with their own children.. I agree with you, we treat them like child, they will act/feel like child. I never believe that someone who become 18, proof! Mature, no more immature! It can be even before 18, even before 15, who knows. It's depends on the individuals...

Yupp, more pressure or conservate(sp?) make the children feel overwhelming and feel like they cannot follow too much..

It's important for parents to get know about their own children, knowing their dreams, their ownselves beings, etc. then parents will know what to do with them.. Parents can't just ignore their children's role and tell them what to do whatever parents think was better or it will not work for the children..

Ohh yeah I notice that pretty often.. The laws doesn't always help people or children or parents to get any better, the only way they get better is to know each other, understanding each other, then they will get along well.. That's what I believe..

Exactly... What about understanding the children, try to be in team with the children, etc... I understand how you feel crystal clear..

And, I am very sorry about your cousin but it's wonderful to know that her boyfriend support her what he can.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Is he in the military?

No, he WAS in the military at long time ago.

 

[Reba]

I explained the reason why I suspect is because of 12 years old boy who have to die because parents can't afford insurance in my previous post and I repeat my post here that lack of insurance is a suggestion of me.

So how is that proof that parents force their daughters to get abortions for insurance reasons? You keep throwing unsupported, emotional red herrings into the debate.

Where have I say all? And, what I suspect is a suggestion, not accusation. This is a difference.

OK. On what do you base your suggestion?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Then why did you bring it up?

So how do you infer from that that parents force their daughters to get abortions because they lack insurance?

No, I only make a suggestion but I wasn't realize that you took my suggestion post serious and claimed I said that ALL parents force their daughters to abort their babies due lack of insurance and then said that I should ask the parents why. I was like Of course, I do not need to ask them because I know what they did pain wrong but support Ader's bad experiences. I know some parents force their daughters to abort their babies due their belief, want their best, don't want to see them ruin their good future etc. I add lack of insurance in the list of different reasons and suggest that it could be also reason why the parents did to their daughters.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

So how is that proof that parents force their daughters to get abortions for insurance reasons? You keep throwing unsupported, emotional red herrings into the debate.



OK. On what do you base your suggestion?

I can see that you deny it.

I do not repeat my post since what I offer my suggestion in my previous post is good enough.

 

[Reba]

No, he WAS in the military at long time ago.

He's got more trouble than just no passport. He has not just cut himself off from having to pay past child support, he has also cut himself off from receiving future Social Security or military-related benefits. He can't use VA for a house loan, education benefits, or medical care. He risks getting caught in background checks for security clearances, gun purchases, credit, and job applications. He is in deep trouble with the IRS.

If he was in the military at the time that he fraudulently began using another SSN, he's in even deeper trouble than just the child support. The UCMJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) has much to say about that.

He might think he's gotten away with his deceit but this "trick" of his will eventually give him a bit bite in the butt.

Did anyone turn him in to Social Security? Since several people know what he did, did they report him to SS? What he did is against the law, and should be reported. If someone knows what he did and doesn't report him, they are also breaking the law.