America's biggest teacher and principal cheating scandal unfolds in Atlanta

They can justify their cheating as lamely as the teachers can.


Oh, no, you would never judge another person, and your observations are made only to benefit others.



:laugh2:

Teachers are at least providing a public service.


Didn't say it was meant for your benefit, either.:cool2:
 
You make way too many assumptions. You might wanna be more careful about that.

Hmm...

I was careful to not say throw them all in prison. I wrote "For some of more egregious offenses, such as retaliating against whistle-blowers and obstructing justice, I say charge them and throw them in prison." I said that because those things are actually illegal.

Why do leftists have such difficulty with applying the word "all" to everything?

So, are you claiming to be an educator?

Again, I say...throwing them in prison is a great solution.:laugh2:
 
I think a lot of people are hurt by this behavior - the kids, the parents and yes, the teachers. I don't agree with the cheating; I also really disagree with NCLB.
The problem is this: who do we punish? punishing the teachers does nothing to change the educational circumstances we have today, especially in many poor or urban areas. Punishing the schools and the district is reinforcing for those who do the punishing but where does it end?
consider: how are things connected that led to this happening? where does the fear come from and how can we stop it?

And that is exactly my point. I don't agree with the cheating, either, but let's look at the circumstances. I agree even less with legislation that punishes the schools and the students most in need by taking their funding away. The way NCLB was set up, the students who have the most need are the ones getting left behind.
 
simple - abolish NCLB.


blame whoever passed this NCLB farce.
College students face a lot of pressure too. Some of it may be unfair, but if they engaged in a cheating scandal like this, they would probably be kicked out of the university and nobody would bat an eye. I've seen it before. Why are teachers any different?

By the way, the tests given around here are so ridiculously easy that most students in decent school districts see them as a joke. There's no reason to teach to the test because doing so would be horribly boring. Teaching just the normal curriculum would mean teaching so high above the test that the only danger of failing is getting bored and falling asleep during the test. For decent districts, the testing really doesn't make much of a difference.

In other words, if a district has trouble getting kids to pass, there's something wrong with that district that goes far deeper than NCLB.

But I actually agree with doing away with NCLB. I'd go even further. I say do away with the Department of Education. That way, the states can do what they want with education without the federal government sucking up money from the states and dangling it over their heads with all sorts of strings attached. Then, we can compare states' different approaches and see what works and what doesn't.
 
College students face a lot of pressure too. Some of it may be unfair, but if they engaged in a cheating scandal like this, they would probably be kicked out of the university and nobody would bat an eye. I've seen it before. Why are teachers any different?

I liked the entire post, but wanted to single this section out as the part that really hits a home run. Another consideration: those college students pay for their education. Imagine the double whammy of losing both their degree and their tuition!
 
So, are you claiming to be an educator?
I used to be involved in education and I still have a number of friends who are still in it and I get to hear about the silliness and gross incompetence.

Again, I say...throwing them in prison is a great solution.:laugh2:
Glad we agree, although it's pretty much a no-brainer that crimes like obstruction of justice and retaliating against whistleblowers should be punished.
 
College students face a lot of pressure too. Some of it may be unfair, but if they engaged in a cheating scandal like this, they would probably be kicked out of the university and nobody would bat an eye. I've seen it before. Why are teachers any different?

By the way, the tests given around here are so ridiculously easy that most students in decent school districts see them as a joke. There's no reason to teach to the test because doing so would be horribly boring. Teaching just the normal curriculum would mean teaching so high above the test that the only danger of failing is getting bored and falling asleep during the test. For decent districts, the testing really doesn't make much of a difference.

In other words, if a district has trouble getting kids to pass, there's something wrong with that district that goes far deeper than NCLB.

But I actually agree with doing away with NCLB. I'd go even further. I say do away with the Department of Education. That way, the states can do what they want with education without the federal government sucking up money from the states and dangling it over their heads with all sorts of strings attached. Then, we can compare states' different approaches and see what works and what doesn't.

The pressure on college students is not comparable to the pressure felt by educators in the K-12 arena.

But you didn't answer the question. Are you a college student, or are you an educator?
 
I used to be involved in education and I still have a number of friends who are still in it and I get to hear about the silliness and gross incompetence.


Glad we agree, although it's pretty much a no-brainer that crimes like obstruction of justice and retaliating against whistleblowers should be punished.

So, then, my assumption was correct.:cool2: You are not an educator.

Obstruction of justice? This is not a murder trial.:laugh2:

Looks like the sarcasm went over your head again. I will have to start making a note when I am using sarcasm for your benefit.
 
I liked the entire post, but wanted to single this section out as the part that really hits a home run. Another consideration: those college students pay for their education. Imagine the double whammy of losing both their degree and their tuition!
Thanks. College students don't even have influence over young people, although their actions do hurt the reputation of their school and their fellow students.

Teachers also get a double-whammy if they get fired and lose their license. Teaching licenses aren't cheap, whether they get it through an education degree or through alternative certification. Plus, they lose their careers. Still, good riddance I say.
 
I liked the entire post, but wanted to single this section out as the part that really hits a home run. Another consideration: those college students pay for their education. Imagine the double whammy of losing both their degree and their tuition!

The part that you excerpted is exactly why the situation is not comparable. You have gone past the bounds of public education when you enter college.
 
If you have not done so, please watch the documentary film "Waiting for Superman." It explains everything that is wrong with America's education system.
 
So, then, my assumption was correct.:cool2: You are not an educator.
Huh? I meant I used to teach. I understand well the pressure teachers feel. And no, I'm not currently a college student.
Obstruction of justice? This is not a murder trial.:laugh2:
Still illegal.
Looks like the sarcasm went over your head again. I will have to start making a note when I am using sarcasm for your benefit.
Funny, I overlooked your sarcasm for your benefit. Guess you really are fine with obstruction of justice (except in murder cases! Good to know!) and retaliating against whistleblowers. Some things would seem like a no-brainer...
 
If you have not done so, please watch the documentary film "Waiting for Superman." It explains everything that is wrong with America's education system.

Excellent film to watch. But there are those that will say the film is in error, too.;)
 
Huh? I meant I used to teach. I understand well the pressure teachers feel. And no, I'm not currently a college student.

Still illegal.

Funny, I overlooked your sarcasm for your benefit. Guess you really are fine with obstruction of justice (except in murder cases! Good to know!) and retaliating against whistleblowers. Some things would seem like a no-brainer...

Nice attempt at backpedaling. Too bad it doesn't work.
Obstruction of justice? Again, you really are out on a limb.:laugh2:

And your interpretation is so totally off the wall that it does not even deserve a response.:laugh2:
 
The part that you excerpted is exactly why the situation is not comparable. You have gone past the bounds of public education when you enter college.

Well, I am fixated on the cheating aspect. I am also looking at the students involved. K-12 students are far more impressionable in regards to this than college students. I still cannot endorse what was done here as anything other than criminal activities. If a janitor at this school used profanity around the students, he would be fired. They would consider it a conduct issue. Are you implying that this "we need to cheat to stay afloat" agenda is a better thing? Sorry, I don't see it that way.
 
Thanks. College students don't even have influence over young people, although their actions do hurt the reputation of their school and their fellow students.

Teachers also get a double-whammy if they get fired and lose their license. Teaching licenses aren't cheap, whether they get it through an education degree or through alternative certification. Plus, they lose their careers. Still, good riddance I say.

Oh, if life were so black and white as you dichotomous thinkers see it.:D
 
I also will have to ask my little sister what she has to say about this. She used to be a second grade teacher but currently works in the adminstrative dept of the Educational dept.
 
Back
Top