Agbell Missoners Trash Piece On Nyle

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Cappy said:
I do not agree with "forced drilling" as Hoochie says. I sometimes see this as no different as any other medical condition, from a parents point of view. I wood like the parent to wait it out, since it is a non life threatening condition, more a cosmetic thing. On the other hand, If a consenting adult of legal age, desires a CI...who are we to say F-Y? It is their choice and I wish them the best.
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It is different in this aspect that the sooner you implant, the better the outcome.

You can not implant at later age and expect the same results as in infancy. you just can't.
The child implanted at the age of 6 months will have far, FAR better results
than a child implanted at the age of 6, and the child implanted at the age of 6 will have far,
far better results than a child implanted at the age of 12.
The older you are, the less your chances of learning to hear through the CI and understand sounds
simply for the fact that between the age O- 3 the speech and hearing centers in the brain are still developing it's called neuroplasticity.
https://successforkidswithhearinglo...ds/2011/08/Brain-Development-Hearing-Loss.pdf
"This is one reason why we believe that a critical period exists for consistent sound stimulation to fully develop the auditory center in the brain."

Think what you want, but personally I believe there is no reason to deprive the deaf from the ability of better hearing while still remaining culturally deaf. And for early implantation, it is even so much easier as opposed to late implantation because children learn naturally while all the late implantees must spend a helluva lot of time on learning and exercises.
think about that..

Fuzzy
 
Cappy said:
I see your point. Stick to the topic at hand. Who are we to tell someone else what they can and cannot do? Are you trying to micro manage others? Are you telling me, that we all need your permission to do things you disagree with?
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we are the ones negatively effected by their behavior. their policies, their plans, and their designs in regards to our language and our culture and our future.

thats who the hell we are

we are not telling you or anyone you need our permission to colonize us
what we are stating is
we will do what we must to stop the colonization
so
act accordingly

if our wishes as a people and a culture and language minority are not respected enough to even consider our statements or words then fine so be it.
we are done making it easy for them

thats who the hell we are!
 
Audiofuzzy said:
[QUOTE="hoichi]and if parents decide not to implant their child and instead bring their child up Deaf?

that's fine with me- it's their choice

how will you force them against their will to drill a hole in their child's head?

I won't
Click to expand...

Fuzzy[/QUOTE]

well so then im having a hard time with understanding what your stating looking at your posts.
if the above is true then you have either
changed your position from your posts
or have not stated it clear.

so you do NOT support forced implantation is that what you are stating?
i ant to be clear for the sake of the discussion
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Think what you want
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I see your point. The one thing that bothered me upon arriving here on AD regarding CI was exactly this. I am still 50/50 on it. Much respect.
 
hoichi said:
Fuzzy
Click to expand...

well so then im having a hard time with understanding what your stating looking at your posts.
if the above is true then you have either
changed your position from your posts
or have not stated it clear.

so you do NOT support forced implantation is that what you are stating?
i ant to be clear for the sake of the discussion[/QUOTE]

I am simply saying it's a parent choice, not yours. If any parent wishes to have their deaf infant to have CI, what's that got to do with you ? :)

Fuzzy
 
hoichi said:
thats who the hell we are!
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There is a mix of CI, HA non HA. Deaf. HoH. Whatever combination mathmatics cum up with going on in the deaf community. We still function as ONE.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
It is different in this aspect that the sooner you implant, the better the outcome.
Click to expand...

what measure are you using? what ideological framework are you using to measure "better the outcome"?

Audiofuzzy said:
I
You can not implant at later age and expect the same results as in infancy. you just can't.
The child implanted at the age of 6 months will have far, FAR better results
Click to expand...

yes the results are so so fantastic that 45% of the those fantastic result recipients do not use the very tech they were forced drilled into..
interesting measure of a success rate for a product wouldn't you think?


Audiofuzzy said:
than a child implanted at the age of 6, and the child implanted at the age of 6 will have far,
far better results than a child implanted at the age of 12.
Click to expand...

you do realize children and babies were first implant into without any results at all ever being known, and they were implanted into against medical advice of the time, and it was done to expand market acquisition.
the measure and results used in the development of child CI where economic forcats, and market ratios..

Audiofuzzy said:
The older you are, the less your chances of learning to hear through the CI and understand sounds
simply for the fact that between the age O- 3 the speech and hearing centers in the brain are still developing it's called neuroplasticity.
https://successforkidswithhearinglo...ds/2011/08/Brain-Development-Hearing-Loss.pdf
"This is one reason why we believe that a critical period exists for consistent sound stimulation to fully develop the auditory center in the brain."
Click to expand...


yes yes we all know your oral fixation.
besides that though
your flimsy case rests on what?
results in speech aquisition?
th..th...th..th..ba...ba...ba..ba,,cock...ca....ca...ca

we get that we do.
Audiofuzzy said:
Think what you want, but personally I believe there is no reason to deprive the deaf from the ability of better hearing while still remaining culturally deaf.
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this is NOT what the CI industry and its combined system of professionals, audiologists, ents, and speech therapist believe nor how they act in policy and behavior towards Deaf.

Audiofuzzy said:
And for early implantation, it is even so much easier as opposed to late implantation because children learn naturally while all the late implants must spend a helluva lot of time on learning and exercises.
think about that..
Click to expand...

oh we do think about it lady.
mark our signs
we think about it.

we live it!

if you read the literature and how they have changed their stories to justify early implantation its worthy of a Saturday night live sketch if it wasn't so damn hypocritical and sad..

must be all those th...th...th...and cocks..ca....ca....ca,,,and lollipops being used because beside politicians no one speakies outside both sides their mouth at the same time then CI multi nationals have done in regards to their excuses and justifications they have used for early implants

perhaps maybe you and those who support the colonization of our bodies should consider the actual damage those devices actually do to us

there is after all more to life then th...th...th...ba...ba...ba...ba...

there really is
 
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Cappy said:
I see your point. The one thing that bothered me upon arriving here on AD regarding CI was exactly this. I am still 50/50 on it. Much respect.
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Glad I could help :)
This is definitely very hard, difficult subject - does implanting will cause the eradication of the Deaf Culture?
NO. The implant will never ever cure deafness, period. what is to be feared - a DNA manipulating. now, that is something that could.
Eradicate deafness.

AS for CI, it does not, IMO, have to be 'one or the other'. imo, it may very well go hand in hand. during my CI consultation I've learned that
(due to my migraine) if I am tired, I can remove or turn down my CI. If I can do that, why not a deaf person? especially if the deaf person
is well trained in using CI - from infancy - and turning it on and off is like taking on and off glasses.
that's how I see it, or rather, would like to see it.
To me the ideal world is where the deaf can not only sign but also hear and speak for themselves. orally. wouldn't that be something?

Fuzzy
 
Cappy said:
There is a mix of CI, HA non HA. Deaf. HoH. Whatever combination mathmatics cum up with going on in the deaf community. We still function as ONE.
Click to expand...

actually no we dont.
sorry to break it to you pal

Deaf are those who sign, and are in Deaf culture.
deaf are not

that is what the D means.
and it matters

and if you've ever been around Deaf you would obviously know this

but thats not what you asked me
you asked who the hell we where?
and i told you.

WE are Deaf who are opposed to the combined system of the CI industry and its policies of language deprivation in the denial of sign languages to our babies an children.
WE are the very culture these devices effect.
WE are opposed to their colonization and assimilation.

that is who the hell we are
nice to meet you.

if you want something different go ask deaf at agbell who the hell they are
youll get a different answer
 
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Audiofuzzy said:
Glad I could help :)
This is definitely very hard, difficult subject - does implanting will cause the eradication of the Deaf Culture?
NO.
Click to expand...

well the very people who designed the very products and who actually implant them into our babies heads disagree with you.
i have ven given you here, two quotes from two leading specialists in the design and surgical application of these every devices.
these gentlemen used words like "wipe out" and "become extinct"
prhaps your qualifications of an ENT and a surgeon out stripes theirs
care to share?
pls by all means..


i'm not sure if english is your first language or your just like any true believer and fanatic refusing to actually accept facts that are contrary to your fetish..i dunno
but i provided you with two
i have plenty more for you going back to 1974, if thats how you like it, even though you and i both know you will ignore them just like you ignored the others,
maybe we can get all oral about it and i shove them down your proverbial throat..after all thats what oralist dream off right?
like make like right?

have a lollipop and practice
(hands you a large lolipop)
thats right
(as you ravage it with your tongue enjoying the thickness, using orla practices developed for su..su..su...su..i sign)

there you go..mmm
mmm

Audiofuzzy said:
The implant will never ever cure deafness, period. what is to be feared - a DNA manipulating. now, that is something that could.
Eradicate deafness.
Click to expand...

yet leading surgeons in the very field have stated multiple times otherwise. they even used "cure" in reports to governments to get financial support and push their agenda. so either the industry you so cherish lies to get what it wants or they actually do use not only words after all its what drives words that matters words such as "cure", "wipe out", "become extinct" in regards to people like us.

there is actually some rather famous french examples of ENTs using such words you deny they use..which of course caused controversy of the day, no kidding


Audiofuzzy said:
AS for CI, it does not, IMO, have to be 'one or the other'. imo, it may very well go hand in hand. during my CI consultation I've learned that
(due to my migraine) if I am tired, I can remove or turn down my CI. If I can do that, why not a deaf person? especially if the deaf person
is well trained in using CI - from infancy - and turning it on and off is like taking on and off glasses.
that's how I see it, or rather, would like to see it.
Click to expand...

yes and to many those migraines have been caused by the CI , and remain even after the tech is turned off, people on this very damn board have been through just that.

im well aware people selling products in your case via the Canadian health system will obviously push those products
i sold all kindd of things to all kinds of people
some even thought i was doing them a favor and thanks me.(shakes head)

Audiofuzzy said:
To me the ideal world is where the deaf can not only sign but also hear and speak for themselves. orally. wouldn't that be something?
Click to expand...

to bad for us the CI industry and its combined system of professionals very much disagree with you.
 
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HOICHI - Ok, simple question - if you remove CI are you still deaf?

Fuzzy
 
Wow hoichi. You sound very bitter.

I agree with those who want to use whatever method works for them, whether it be HAs or CIs or even nothing. You don't get to dictate who is Deaf and who isn't. I'm very much in the Deaf community here, and (gasp) I wear HAs! Shocker, huh?

The only part I don't like is surgeries on babies when they're that little. Especially when it's not for a life-threatening situation.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
HOICHI - Ok, simple question - if you remove CI are you still deaf?
Click to expand...

in the two quotes i provide to you, what do the english words "wipe out" and "become extinct?' mean?


i myself have repeatedly stated
CI the technological device differs deafness does not cure it i have also stated that Ci the technological device is NOT separate from the combined system that produces manufactures, distributes and pushes the devices.
that combined system of CI companies, the medical establishment, the government, the system of speech therapy the entire professional strata of what maintains the manufactured dependence that CI actually is. that the Beauvoir, policy of denying sign language acquisition to Deaf, has effected our people and culture in a very negative way.

this is the issue
the end result of those products drilled into your head are long down the line of what creates them and maintains them

the very people drilling into you, th every money they earn of of people like you
they use against people like us
Deaf
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Glad I could help :)
This is definitely very hard, difficult subject - does implanting will cause the eradication of the Deaf Culture?
NO. The implant will never ever cure deafness, period. what is to be feared - a DNA manipulating. now, that is something that could.
Eradicate deafness.

AS for CI, it does not, IMO, have to be 'one or the other'. imo, it may very well go hand in hand. during my CI consultation I've learned that
(due to my migraine) if I am tired, I can remove or turn down my CI. If I can do that, why not a deaf person? especially if the deaf person
is well trained in using CI - from infancy - and turning it on and off is like taking on and off glasses.
that's how I see it, or rather, would like to see it.
To me the ideal world is where the deaf can not only sign but also hear and speak for themselves. orally. wouldn't that be something?

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

What goes into a culture? Language, arts, social norms and the like.
If you deny the very bases of any culture, its language, then are you not eradicating a culture by denying deaf their language?
Sure bilingualism would resolve this but most companies and organizations support denying sign to ensure deaf do not regress...
So take away their language input one of your own ... reads just like any other nations taking over its newly conquered lands... and a culture is lost....
 
AlleyCat said:
Wow hoichi. You sound very bitter.

I agree with those who want to use whatever method works for them, whether it be HAs or CIs or even nothing. You don't get to dictate who is Deaf and who isn't. I'm very much in the Deaf community here, and (gasp) I wear HAs! Shocker, huh?

The only part I don't like is surgeries on babies when they're that little. Especially when it's not for a life-threatening situation.
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im not bitter
im just perplexed when i'm discussing with a seemingly smart women and provide quotes, she either ignores the actual quotes and portrays herself as stupid

i have no place dictated who is Deaf
our Culture does that and i have stated repeatedly how our culture does that

not me
our culture

it has nothing to do with what you kind of tech in your head.
not to us (to CI and agbell it does) not to us

for us
to be Deaf is to be a sign user in our culture.

and No
i didnt make that up.

if you want bitter chat with the Deaf who had their hands tied when they were in school....
me
im a rather happy camper all things considered

if you are unable to see the difference between a HA or CI and the combined system
so be it

i can recommend a number of books for you
that deeply explore the issues and our case against them

always a pleasure to chat with you allycat
 
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Ok. I guess we will agree to disagree, then.
 
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